Bnp

[TheLordReigns]

Sorry for slow reply. Didn't really want to come back to this thread too much for a couple of days.

How are you? Did you find the same stuff? If not, will point you in the right direction.

God bless you very much

Hi again, I'm doing well. I did find the B&H website, and was thoroughly disgusted. But I had alot of trouble finding anything making the link between them and the BNP (today at least), and where people are saying that Griffin hasn't changed his views. I did look alot - I'm really not trying to be lazy, but if you could help me, I would really appreciate it. If the BNP are no good, then I'll just give up on politics (like I had before I came across them), and give up on this world and just live for the next (which is alot better anyway). But if they are real, I think it my duty to support them, since I do believe that we still have responsibilities in this life, even if they are not pleasant (like going to war for example). I do believe that we are being controlled by powerful globalist and elitist forces, whatever they are, and I know that's not a popular viewpoint, but I am quite sure that is the case, and any party that will restore traditional forms of independence and democracy, and withdraw us from the 'New World Order', would be welcomed by me. But a bunch of Nazi-loving skin-head thugs - well I would want nothing to do with them.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Actually, we have that in common NWO is absolutely real. But anyone who believes that is labelled a conspiracy nut. Makes it easier to ignore, I suppose.

I've now deleted the History for that day, but off the top of my head, from BNP, to Nick Griffin, to someone called David Myatt and another man called Darren Wells, and then to Ian Stuart who was another member of Combat 18, and then went on to found Blood and Honour and Skrewdriver

Honestly, it's underbelly stuff, but I only found BnH by following that trail. It's like a maze slightly, and Nick Griffin has done an *awesome* PR job, but those are the people he associates with.

He was instrumental in the race riots in Oldham... and the thing is, for someone to be so heavily involved in that world, how likely is it his feelings would change? Isn't it more likely he'd tone down what he says in public?

It's one of the members of "Skrewdriver" (evil white supremacy band started by Ian Stuart) that said Nick Griffin has no integrity. Such a strange thing to read. Someone hates him, not because he's a racist, but because he hides it.

I don't know if it messed with your head like it did mine, but am praying for you while you search, cos it's ugliness and sickness Praying praying, bro. x

 

[Martin^^]

http://www.zen26144.zen.co.uk/resources/The BNP Uncovered.pdf

Some background on the BNP.

Have you checked out their Wikipedia entry?

From the BNP constitution, their version of 'Britishness':
( http://www.bnp.org.uk/resources/constitution_8ed.pdf )

section 2.2

The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous
Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic
Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The
Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic
Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The
Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The
Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic
groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.​

The BNP claim to represent the interests of these 'indigenous people'. This is not about nationalism, it is about race. BNP membership is restricted to people of acceptable 'ethnic origins' as defined above.
This sort of nonsense about defining racial types is right out of the Nazi handbook. You might wonder how they decide on a persons ethnic origin. Do all their members submit family trees to prove their racial purity? Or do they just look closely at prospective members and reject them if they look a little bit black or a tad too asian?​

From their 'Statement of principles':

The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic
character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial
integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed
to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by
legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the
British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.​

This is not about preserving British identity - it is about making Britain a whites-only society. No mention of controlling white immigration; people are accepted or rejected purely on the basis of their colour.​

The aim of returning British society to its pre-1948 state is obvious nonsense. How do you imagine this would be achieved?
Consider the Indian immigrants who came here in the 1960s and spent decades building businesses (usually by working much harder than the 'indigenous peoples' beloved of the BNP). Their children are British, born and raised here. Do you really think they will want to move to another country where they may not even speak the language, leaving their jobs and friends behind?
This would be unachievable without compulsory deportation.
This also assumes that those host countries will accept a wave of British citizens arriving uninvited. How would that work - what if all the descendants of British people from the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand were to be deported here?
In spite of their more plausible manifesto policies, the BNP are fundamentally a far-right racist organisation whose aim is to divide the world on racial grounds. Are you really comfortable with that?

 

[TheLordReigns]

Actually, we have that in common NWO is absolutely real. But anyone who believes that is labelled a conspiracy nut. Makes it easier to ignore, I suppose.

I've now deleted the History for that day, but off the top of my head, from BNP, to Nick Griffin, to someone called David Myatt and another man called Darren Wells, and then to Ian Stuart who was another member of Combat 18, and then went on to found Blood and Honour and Skrewdriver

Honestly, it's underbelly stuff, but I only found BnH by following that trail. It's like a maze slightly, and Nick Griffin has done an *awesome* PR job, but those are the people he associates with.

He was instrumental in the race riots in Oldham... and the thing is, for someone to be so heavily involved in that world, how likely is it his feelings would change? Isn't it more likely he'd tone down what he says in public?

It's one of the members of "Skrewdriver" (evil white supremacy band started by Ian Stuart) that said Nick Griffin has no integrity. Such a strange thing to read. Someone hates him, not because he's a racist, but because he hides it.

I don't know if it messed with your head like it did mine, but am praying for you while you search, cos it's ugliness and sickness Praying praying, bro. x

Thanks, I'm going to look through those when I get some time and see what I can find. I still think there is hope for the party, even if what you say is true - they would need 3-400 MPs to gain power, and their membership is increasingly made up of normal people without the kind of ties you mention. But if these ties are true, if it a very big cause for concern, and certainly more than enough reason for me to have nothing to do with them. Thanks for all your hard work!

 

[TheLordReigns]

The BNP claim to represent the interests of these 'indigenous people'. This is not about nationalism, it is about race. BNP membership is restricted to people of acceptable 'ethnic origins' as defined above.
This sort of nonsense about defining racial types is right out of the Nazi handbook. You might wonder how they decide on a persons ethnic origin. Do all their members submit family trees to prove their racial purity? Or do they just look closely at prospective members and reject them if they look a little bit black or a tad too asian?​

I'll take a look at those sites when I get some time. Thanks! I disagree with your statements though. 'Nationalism' has always been about the ethnos - the idea of civic nationalism is very recent. History books still speak of a nation in terms of an ethnos, and Wilson's Fourteen Points assumed that. It is assumed when we speak of non-white peoples, whether Tibetans, minority persecuted ethnic groups in South America, India, Africa and China, or the Israelis and Palestinians. Everyone wants a homeland where they can live as a people, without having to share who they are with others. The wonderful diversity of our world is a result of this, and is ordained of God. I think it is racist to deny that to whites when we allow it for non-whites.
Also, even in this country, there are many organizations for ethnic groups, like black police organizations etc, and it has never been considered racist, so a party representing the indigenous should no more be considered racist than an American Indian organization looking out for the interests of the natives there.

This is not about preserving British identity - it is about making Britain a whites-only society. No mention of controlling white immigration; people are accepted or rejected purely on the basis of their colour.

That is so not true. The BNP reject all mass immigration. They recognize that it would be easier for Europeans to integrate in our society, but they are opposed to Polish mass immigration for example.

Do you really think they will want to move to another country where they may not even speak the language, leaving their jobs and friends behind?

You don't seem to have a problem with millions of other people leaving their jobs and friends to come to the UK. But to answer your question, the BNP would not force anyone to leave. Therefore your concern isn't valid, unless they are lying and would do it anyway.

This also assumes that those host countries will accept a wave of British citizens arriving uninvited. How would that work - what if all the descendants of British people from the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand were to be deported here?

The BNP would tie willingness to take back people with generous foreign aid and trade. For example, they would like to leave the EU and start buying sugar from the West Indies again, which would provide work for poorer countries.

In spite of their more plausible manifesto policies, the BNP are fundamentally a far-right racist organisation whose aim is to divide the world on racial grounds. Are you really comfortable with that?

Well I'm glad you see that there is more to them than just immigration, and that they do have other good policies. Again, I can't see any sensible policies in any of the other parties when it comes to the environment, global warming, factory farming, the EU, democracy etc.

 

[bunced]

Personal anecdote, but one which shows that the BNP have some work to do to seem professional at least

My history teacher heard Nick Griffin on the radio discussing the point of view that many have expressed here - that immigration is destroying British culture. He sent back to Griffin a 5 page essay which he took the trouble to properly research and write to high standards, building up an argument why this isn't true and why he believed our culture had always been influenced by immigration.

From Griffin he got a two word response - the first began with 'F' and the second with 'B'

 

[Martin^^]

...Everyone wants a homeland where they can live as a people, without having to share who they are with others. The wonderful diversity of our world is a result of this, and is ordained of God

God must have been well pleased with Idi Amin when he deported the Ugandan asians and stole their property, presumably. Do you think Hitler would have been morally correct if he had dumped the Jews on the shores of Palestine instead of killing them?
Racial diversity exists as an adaptation of the species to the environment in different places, nothing more or less.
To suggest that different races cannot integrate successfully is plainly nonsense - all of the world's most advanced economies are in multicultural countries. There are conflicts between ethnic groups, just as there are between religious groups and groups of football supporters - that is in the nature of all human societies and is a normal part of social interaction. All of these conflicts can be resolved if people are willing to give and take a little and tolerate others.
My ability to get on with another person depends on our social and psychological attitudes towards each other - not on whether his skin is darker on mine, or whether I have a big nose. Personally, I am quite happy to share my 'homeland' with others who want to come here and contribute to society, regardless of their colour.

...Also, even in this country, there are many organizations for ethnic groups, like black police organizations etc, and it has never been considered racist

I think they might be if they campaigned for an all-black police force, however. (Based on the racial superiority of black men at running and catching criminals, of course.)

...That is so not true. The BNP reject all mass immigration. They recognize that it would be easier for Europeans to integrate in our society, but they are opposed to Polish mass immigration for example.

They specifically mention halting non-white immigration in their constitution - it is a basic principle to them, in a way in which Polish immigration is not. They are happy to receive immigrants of the 'correct' race in numbers the country can accomodate - they are opposed to all non-white immigration. That is the distinction which makes them racist.

...You don't seem to have a problem with millions of other people leaving their jobs and friends to come to the UK. But to answer your question, the BNP would not force anyone to leave. Therefore your concern isn't valid, unless they are lying and would do it anyway.

People come here by choice, from countries with less opportunity. The BNP are commited to removing all the descendants of non-white immigrants after 1948. If these people would not go voluntarily, which they obviously will not, the BNP would certainly do it through compulsion.

...The BNP would tie willingness to take back people with generous foreign aid and trade. For example, they would like to leave the EU and start buying sugar from the West Indies again, which would provide work for poorer countries.

So we will provide enough trade/aid to turn the world's poorest economies into vibrant and appealing countries that people will want to go to! Have you costed this policy? This is more shallow nonsense to make the unpleasant reality of racist policies more palatable.
Sorry but I don't see many lawyers and accountants of West Indian descent trading their lives here for a job on the plantations. Harvesting cane, while lustily singing negro spirituals thanking God for the generosity of their white neighbours in buying their produce. So much healthier than being stuck in that old office. And black folks are much better adapted for that kind of work, aren't they...

...Well I'm glad you see that there is more to them than just immigration, and that they do have other good policies.

I didn't say their policies were good, I said they were plausible. There is much more to them than immigration - most of it hidden and none of it good

 

[Iosias]

I think I read somewhere that the BNP had some councillors elected who then never turned up for Council meetings. That just fills you with confidence.

 

[artybloke]

http://www.rvar.org.uk/pages/FAQs/recant.htm

Proof that you can recant of racism. I met, in particular, Andy Sykes, a man who is doing his best now to combat the blatant Nazism of the BNP.

 

[PhillipScaife]

I certainly do not agree with the BNP in any sense. It is a christian value that all peoples should be able to live together no matter what they believe or how they choose to live. The idea that someone is willing to support a party that wants to drive other cultures out of this country is not christian at all.

 

[TheLordReigns]

Personal anecdote, but one which shows that the BNP have some work to do to seem professional at least

My history teacher heard Nick Griffin on the radio discussing the point of view that many have expressed here - that immigration is destroying British culture. He sent back to Griffin a 5 page essay which he took the trouble to properly research and write to high standards, building up an argument why this isn't true and why he believed our culture had always been influenced by immigration.

From Griffin he got a two word response - the first began with 'F' and the second with 'B'

bunced, if that is true, then that is very disturbing. Please give me a few more details, if you can, just so I know your teacher is telling the truth ... like how did she write to him when I wasn't aware anyone had his address, and in what form did the response come (letter, email etc) and how does she know it was from Griffin (though it would be a terrible response from anyone representing the BNP).

 

[bunced]

It was an e-mail response using the contact forum on the website. The response took some 6 months to come or thereabouts.

I have no more details, sorry

 

[TheLordReigns]

It was an e-mail response using the contact forum on the website. The response took some 6 months to come or thereabouts.

I have no more details, sorry

No problem, thanks. If she still has the email, I would love to have it forwarded to me so I can see for myself. Otherwise, I'll just have to keep your words in mind.

 

[TheLordReigns]

Sorry, I was up late (I'm in a different time zone right now). GreenM is right. My arguing is crossing the line. When Scots on here say its okay for England to have stuff that they don't, and when they say things like 'the English don't have a culture', it does make me angry. But my reaction wasn't helpful.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Bro, please, we are Christian first... as Christians, we can't talk to people like that. We mustn't. We are Jesus' representatives on this Earth. If you disagree with someone, please turn the other cheek. You have to understand it's hard for people to compute that a Christian may also be supportive of the BNP... and the BNP is a sore subject for many. It makes people speak out of emotion. But is calling someone a racist, and insulting them what Jesus would want us to do? Honestly?

Please don't argue, cos am so worried the crossness'll push you more towards the BNP. You know we are called to live differently.

I haven't quoted in case you want to edit your post... please?

God bless you lots

 

[artybloke]

Look, it seems evident to me that you are not going to look at this reasonably until you yourself experience the kind of mass immigration in Scotland that we have had in parts of England.

I live in Manchester, and I love the fact that we have had mass imigration into England. I can walk down the road and buy a curry, a sweet'n'sour pork, phad thai, and any sort of food I want. I've met people from so many different cultures and learnt so much from them that it's been a great experience.

If Britain hadn't been multicultural, I would have missed out on jazz, indian ragas, lebanese poetry, african drumming, all kinds of stuff. I love my country for its tapas bars, samba drumming, Caribbean soul food and reggae.

If it means we don't yet have a mobile phone that can perform quadratic equations while e-mailing the collected works of James Joyce and dancing the tango, I can live with that.

 

[margaret1]

My boyfriend is a bnp supporter and says he is not rascist and has a dark skinned daughter and 2 black friends. It did worry me for a time that he was.

 

[TheLordReigns]

I live in Manchester, and I love the fact that we have had mass imigration into England. I can walk down the road and buy a curry, a sweet'n'sour pork, phad thai, and any sort of food I want. I've met people from so many different cultures and learnt so much from them that it's been a great experience.

If Britain hadn't been multicultural, I would have missed out on jazz, indian ragas, lebanese poetry, african drumming, all kinds of stuff. I love my country for its tapas bars, samba drumming, Caribbean soul food and reggae.

If it means we don't yet have a mobile phone that can perform quadratic equations while e-mailing the collected works of James Joyce and dancing the tango, I can live with that.

yes, it's nice to go to Brick Lane for a curry, or to Soho, or Brixton etc. I just believe it should be limited for various reasons, including loss of native culture, the environment and need for sustainability, the social problems that result etc. Just because I vote BNP doesn't mean that I don't think other cultures can make a positive contribution, I just think it has gone way too far.

 

[Goatboy]

yes, it's nice to go to Brick Lane for a curry, or to Soho, or Brixton etc. I just believe it should be limited for various reasons, including loss of native culture, the environment and need for sustainability, the social problems that result etc. Just because I vote BNP doesn't mean that I don't think other cultures can make a positive contribution, I just think it has gone way too far.

I’m (really) hoping it’s merely an unfortunate coincidence that you happen to have picked the three targets of right wing nail bomber, Andrew Copeland, for your examples.

But anyway, what is it you are saying should actually be limited?
(Curry, Rainbow pub signs?)

What is an accepted unit of culture?
How do we measure it?

IMHO ScottishJohn had it right; if you try and place limits on culture you’ll only succeed in killing it quicker.

Also, does the example of BNP councillors’ recent problems in Barking not give you pause for thought?

Weren’t about four of them found to be owing either rent on council properties or unpaid council tax?
(But of course, according to the BNP, it’s the immigrants who are stealing benefits which should be going support white, working class, hard working families).

 

[TheLordReigns]

I’m (really) hoping it’s merely an unfortunate coincidence that you happen to have picked the three targets of right wing nail bomber, Andrew Copeland, for your examples.

But anyway, what is it you are saying should actually be limited?
(Curry, Rainbow pub signs?)

What is an accepted unit of culture?
How do we measure it?

IMHO ScottishJohn had it right; if you try and place limits on culture you’ll only succeed in killing it quicker.

Also, does the example of BNP councillors’ recent problems in Barking not give you pause for thought?

Weren’t about four of them found to be owing either rent on council properties or unpaid council tax?
(But of course, according to the BNP, it’s the immigrants who are stealing benefits which should be going support white, working class, hard working families).

I don't have the nail bomber's activities memorized that I'd be able to even tell you where he went. I was going to write 'Hackney' instead of Brixton, but I thought I would go for the better known. And having had a curry at Brick Lane a couple of weeks ago, and a Chinese at Soho the week before, those were my examples. If they correspond with any terrorist activity then it is a coincidence.
Scottish John had it wrong, but I find it really tedious to try to argue over what constitutes 'culture' since it is hard to quantify (for any culture), and since that particular person said that the English don't have a culture (funny, my foreign-born wife thinks the English culture is great, and doesn't want to see it vanish), I considered him an anti-English racist and decided not to respond any further (especially since he says everyone else does have a culture and that they should be preserved). There is a difference between natural changes to a culture, and ones that are enfored from above (like in say Tibet, or by military invasion in general). The purpose of a state is to preserve the culture and environment of a nation - that is what people are fighting for in Kashmir and Sri Lanka and other places. In fifty years time, if the BNP don't get in, we won't have anything recognizable, because we will probably be living under an imposed Islamic state. To use John's analogy - kind of like having a bunch of hooded nutters come in and throw your yorkshire pud in the rubbish and force you to eat curry. You might not think that possible, but top intelligence in both the US and UK have said that it will happen, and Gadaffi and a high-ranking Turkish politician have openly boasted about it. I fear people such as yourself will keep talking out-of-touch humanistic idealism until it's too late for all of us. I'm not happy with what is happening, and choose to try to avert catastrophe using my political rights.

As for BNP councillors - yes, they need to find a better calibre, and they are. People are very brave to stand up as a councillor for that party, and unfortunately they just don't have the pool of people willing to make that stand. But they are slowly making progress. And they certainly aren't the only party with bad people standing for them. But that's a detail. I vote for them because of the big picture - because of what will happen if they don't win.