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Most people here are not confused. It's you who's confused. That's why you never answered the fact that I exposed the fact that you took one verse of scripture out of context, making it yet another one of your many failed attempts to support your view regarding obedience to Torah.
The Law and Christ are perfect, we are not, therefore there is the provision for love, grace and faith in both. Is this simple enough for an adolescent?
1 Corinthians 9:19–23
English Standard Version
though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. that I may share with them in its blessings.
Yahshua followed the Torah because He was a Jew.
Galatians 4:
1 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all,
2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
12 Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not injured me at all.
13 You know that because of physical infirmity I preached the gospel to you at the first.
14 And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15 What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.
16 Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?
17 They [of the circumcision group] zealously court you, but for no good; yes, they want to exclude you, that you may be zealous for them.
18 But it is good to be zealous in a good thing always, and not only when I am present with you.
19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,
20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.
They [of the circumcision group] zealously court you,
Back to the OP and Philippians 3:
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
Covenant of flesh vs. covenant of The Spirit.
Genesis 17:13. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
The covenant in the flesh cannot in any way supercede the new covenant in the Spirit.
Paul wouldn't let this go!
Galatians 5:
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
10I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
Oh my. Paul wishes that those who trouble them to be emasculated/castrated! Ouch!
Who were these troublemakers? Paul withstood them.
Galatians 2:
3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),
5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Who sent out these troublemakers?
Acts 15:
1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
On to Jerusalem.
5. But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
This sect of the Pharisees were usurpers. No one put them in charge. Peter, James, John, Paul and Barnabas all withstood them. And yet the spirit of the Pharisees lives on in Jews professing to be for Jesus who teach gentiles the same doctrine, and many gentiles back them and have defiled many.
So these are the options:
I'm confused with this discussion because aren't these choices the same thing?
- Yes. Only Yahshua can follow the example that he called us to follow.
- No. Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.
I'm not going to take your posts seriously until you stop using the CLV translation.
This is the worst translation I have ever seen. The translators definitely have a hidden agenda and I'm not even sure I know what it is.
Well as Christians we are called to live holy lives. However we are still able to sin and transgress God’s Laws. What guides us is not ourselves but the Holy Spirit. This process of sanctification is not instantaneous so a Christian will not be perfect upon salvation.(CLV) Php 3:6
in acrelation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in acrelation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.
(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.
(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.
Who says it's impossible?
Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Does Yahshua call us to the impossible?
Jesus came to fulfil the law. According to the religious leaders, he didn't follow all of it though - he touched dead bodies, lepers and a bleeding woman, which would have made him ceremonially unclean,
he healed on the Sabbath
his disciples picked corn on the Sabbath.
He also taught that nothing which goes into a person's mouth makes them unclean.
And he never said to Gentiles; "when you follow me, that means keeping the whole of the Jewish law."
Yahshua was setting and laying a trap at the very same time and with the very same things with which he was or would set others free...
God Bless!
Nope. But having said that, other than our Lord, the next person I meet or hear of who's made the cut will make a grand total of one.
If you say so. Thanks for the feedback and the constructive criticism. Freely given, freely received.Nothing that you posted proves your false opening statement.
God, alone, can make us just or righteous. This occurs via faith, as through it we enter the first and primary aspect of justice or righteousness for man: relationship or communion with God.(CLV) Php 3:6
in acrelation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in acrelation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.
(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.
(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.
Who says it's impossible?
Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Does Yahshua call us to the impossible?
Being unclean is not breaking the law.
Not against the law. Even your own body, created in the image of YHWH, heals itself on Shabbat.
Eating is not breaking sabbath.
No he didn't. He taught that you don't have to wash your hands according to the Talmud, in order to eat bread.
That's right. He called for those who believe in him to follow him.
He followed the Torah, not Jewish law.
God’s law and Jewish law are 2 different things
Christ did not obey and follow Jewish law
He kept & taught obedience to the law of Moses & God.
it doesn’t biblically make sense to follow someone and not do what they do. That’s what makes you a follower. You do what the person you are following does.
I'm not going to take your posts seriously until you stop using the CLV translation.
This is the worst translation I have ever seen. The translators definitely have a hidden agenda and I'm not even sure I know what it is.
God’s law = the law of Moses, the law of YahwehWhat's the difference then?
Weren't animal sacrifice, keeping he Sabbath, not eating certain foods and so on not part of the law given to Moses that is written in Exodus and Leviticus?
So you are circumcised, observe all the OT festivals, wear robes and sandals and speak Aramaic?
Following, and practising, what Jesus said and taught is not the same as copying everything he did, or adopting his lifestyle as a Jewish man. Otherwise women would never be able to follow him.
It’s a literal version - just curious, what translation do you prefer? I can respect the CLV agenda of bringing out the meaning of the text, with the available resources we have. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense, but we are translating languages. Things don’t perfectly translate.I'm not going to take your posts seriously until you stop using the CLV translation.
This is the worst translation I have ever seen. The translators definitely have a hidden agenda and I'm not even sure I know what it is.
It’s a literal version - just curious, what translation do you prefer? I can respect the CLV agenda of bringing out the meaning of the text, with the available resources we have. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense, but we are translating languages. Things don’t perfectly translate.
Most English translations have an agenda, whether visible or hidden.
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