Blameless in the Law

Does Yahshua call us to the impossible?

  • Yes. Only Yahshua can follow the example that he called us to follow.

  • No. Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.


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Neogaia777

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I don't believe that Yahshua lays traps. I think that's the other guy.
You first have to catch the fish before you can clean it, but some fish are very stubborn, etc, refuse to get or go through the cleaning or be cleansed, etc...

Yahshua most certainly did lay some traps, etc, to catch men alive, etc, what the man or men or people do after that, is what determines whether they both are or ever were truly one of his or not though...

Some go or lean toward being puffed up or self-righteous at His words, and you don't think He didn't know that would happen, etc...? He did know that would happen, etc, and worded some of his Word or words on it and around it, etc...

In other words, laid some traps for those ones or those types, etc...

The ones who would not humble or lower themselves, but would do the opposite, etc...

God Bless!
 
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HARK!

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You first have to catch the fish before you can clean it, but some fish are very stubborn, etc, refuse to get or go through the cleaning or be cleansed, etc...

Yahshua most certainly did lay some traps, etc, to catch men alive, etc, what the man or men or people do after that, is what determines whether they both are or ever were truly one of his or not though...

Some go or lean toward being puffed up or self-righteous at His words, and you don't think He didn't know that would happen, etc...? He did know that would happen, etc, and worded some of his Word or words on it and around it, etc...

In other words, laid some traps for those ones or those types, etc...

The ones who would not humble or lower themselves, but would do the opposite, etc...

God Bless!

There is a difference between a road sign, and a speed trap.
 
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Neogaia777

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There is a difference between a road sign, and a speed trap.
"From now on you will be catching men alive"

Still stands that sometimes, and with some of Jesus words, and the Word, is meant to catch or trap men sometimes, etc...

What those men do about or after being caught, is the true telling sign of who they truly are, etc...

Some do not even realize that they have been caught, and are stumbling into a pit, they are so blind and blinded sometimes, etc...

Most often by their own pride, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Dkh587

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Only the Holy Spirit can verify for you what He has verified for me.
Anybody can say the Holy Spirit “verified” stuff to them - that’s why it’s important to be able to show it via scripture.

false prophets in the Bible say “thus saith Yahweh”, but they were prophesying falsely, and did not have a message from God.
 
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HARK!

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Anybody can say the Holy Spirit “verified” stuff to them - that’s why it’s important to be able to show it via scripture.

That's how I test the "spirits."
 
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Anybody can say the Holy Spirit “verified” stuff to them - that’s why it’s important to be able to show it via scripture.

false prophets in the Bible say “thus saith Yahweh”, but they were prophesying falsely, and did not have a message from God.
Claiming verification by the Holy Spirit falsely is blasphemy, something I do not take lightly and judging others falsely is also a serious offense. If one does not understand scripture, they cannot be shown by it.
 
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Strong in Him

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Yes, thou shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil equates to the law which teaches about good and evil. They could not and neither can you or I.

The only law, or commandment, that there was in the garden of Eden was the one give to Adam which said, "You shall not....". As far as we know, that was the only thing that God required of him - he had the freedom of being able to eat from any tree in the whole garden, except one.
Had he, and Eve, obeyed that command, sin would not have come into the world. The tree itself was unimportant - in fact, it could have been an animal or a rose bush; the command from God was "don't" and they did.
 
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Strong in Him

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Obviously, living like Messiah would be in reference to him obeying God’s law, not by wearing things like sandals.

You said, earlier, that following someone means living like them - I just wanted to know how far you took that.

He taught obedience to God’s law,

No, he told us to put God first, love him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and love our neighbours as ourselves. He said that ALL the law and the prophets hung on that. He gave us a new commandment, which was to love as he has loved us, as well as other commands such as "go into all the world", "do this in memory of me" etc.
Jesus took people further than the law; e.g, the law said "an eye for an eye .....". If a person was living purely by the law, if someone punched them and took their eye out, they had the right to do the same to them. But Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, that if someone tried to sue you for your coat to let him have your shirt as well and that we should treat others as we would like them to treat us. The law said "do not commit adultery", but Jesus said that to even look at a woman lustfully was committing adultery in the heart.

Jesus did not tell anyone to obey the laws in Leviticus, some of which I have quoted.

so did Paul and the Apostles(they all lived in obedience to God’s law)

Paul lived in obedience to Christ.
He taught that the law, and circumcision, could not save. He said that those who preached circumcision for salvation were false teachers, and said that it was ok to eat meat offered to idols as food cannot save us.
 
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Scott Husted

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What would that be?

Using their law against them to force a point or a death of an ideal in them; their table had become a snare to them which is just another reference to the law of their own mind, or what perception can become to us ... even of the law of God.
 
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Studyman

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You said, earlier, that following someone means living like them - I just wanted to know how far you took that.


Jesus took people further than the law; e.g, the law said "an eye for an eye .....". If a person was living purely by the law, if someone punched them and took their eye out, they had the right to do the same to them. But Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, that if someone tried to sue you for your coat to let him have your shirt as well and that we should treat others as we would like them to treat us. The law said "do not commit adultery", but Jesus said that to even look at a woman lustfully was committing adultery in the heart.

The Law and Prophets teach to turn the other cheek. To not hate your brother in your heart, to love one another, to not lust after another man's wife in your heart.

God's Laws taught all these things, but the "them of old time" did not teach these parts of God's Law.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Jesus Himself said He came back for the lost sheep. Why were they lost, according to the Holy Scriptures? Many, who come in Christ's Name, would have us believe they were lost because they kept God's Commandments. This is the serpent's doctrine, not the God of the Bible.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

They were lost because the Priests God placed over them didn't teach God's Word, they despised and polluted His Laws and created their own religion.

We are all influenced by the religions of the land we were born into. The teaching that Jesus considered His Father's Laws incomplete, or not worthy of honor, and that HE created HIS own Laws different than what the Law and Prophet's taught is an insidious falsehood that can easily be exposed by simply following the instructions of the Christ Himself.

"Man shall not Live By bread alone, but by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God".

If a man trusted God enough to be a "Doer" of HIS Law and not a hearer only, he would know, not only "Thou shall not Kill", but He would also know these truths about God's Law"

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

And they would know these instructions as well.

Proverbs 20:22 Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the Lord, and he shall save thee. (Turn your cheek)

Proverbs 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink. (Love your enemy)

Proverbs 24:28 Be not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips. 29 Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work. (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you)

Prov. 6:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids. (Don't lust after another man's woman in your heart)

Jesus did not create new laws. He took over the Priesthood and became "The restorer of paths to walk in" as the Scriptures teach, not "the creator of new paths to walk in" as the religions of the land preach. He taught what the Priests were supposed to teach all along, as some, like Zechariah's did.

Is. 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

Please don't fall for the deception that the "them of old time" was God and Moses, and His Son taught something different. The "Them of old time" in Matt. 5 were the Shepherds which caused Israel to go astray because they were "Partial" in the Law or "omitted" important truths about God's Gospel. But Jesus wasn't "partial" in the Law. He didn't depart out of the way of God. He didn't omit the weightier matters of the Law. He lived by "Every Word of God".
 
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Studyman

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A good visual of a trap he set would be what he said to those about to stone him ...

I would say He didn't set the trap, rather, HE exposed the trap that had already snared them.
 
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Strong in Him

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But Jesus wasn't "partial" in the Law. He didn't depart out of the way of God. He didn't omit the weightier matters of the Law. He lived by "Every Word of God".

EVERY word that's written in Leviticus?
He didn't teach his followers that they also had to do that.
 
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Thistle

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(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

"For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?" - Romans 7:19–24 NASB
Which should probably be read in light of this:

"For though I am free from all [men,] I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it." - 1 Corinthians 9:19–23 NASB
I think by "weak" Paul here means those who project personal convictions on others. So for example, if I have a problem with alcohol, and the Holy Spirit has convicted me that it's a sin for me to drink at all, if I project that personal convection on others, I believe I would meet Paul's definition of "weak" in this context.

Even if Paul is primarily discussing freedom in Christ in these passages, the arguments he deploys in that enterprise have to be true in themselves, don't they?

Having said that, I agree that everyone should take their sanctification and moral failures with supreme seriousness. God hates us when we sin . . . but wait a minute, doesn't God love us beyond all imagining? Of course he does, look at Calvary! Relationships are complicated aren't they! Who but someone loved as much as a family member can engender hatred when something like betrayal rears it's ugly head.

This is why we maintain that attitude of repentance Jesus told us about in Luke 18 "God have mercy on me a sinner."
 
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Dkh587

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You said, earlier, that following someone means living like them - I just wanted to know how far you took that.



No, he told us to put God first, love him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and love our neighbours as ourselves. He said that ALL the law and the prophets hung on that. He gave us a new commandment, which was to love as he has loved us, as well as other commands such as "go into all the world", "do this in memory of me" etc.
Jesus took people further than the law; e.g, the law said "an eye for an eye .....". If a person was living purely by the law, if someone punched them and took their eye out, they had the right to do the same to them. But Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, that if someone tried to sue you for your coat to let him have your shirt as well and that we should treat others as we would like them to treat us. The law said "do not commit adultery", but Jesus said that to even look at a woman lustfully was committing adultery in the heart.

Jesus did not tell anyone to obey the laws in Leviticus, some of which I have quoted.



Paul lived in obedience to Christ.
He taught that the law, and circumcision, could not save. He said that those who preached circumcision for salvation were false teachers, and said that it was ok to eat meat offered to idols as food cannot save us.
Loving God with all your heart is an idiom which means obeying his commandments(His law).

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love YHWH thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:22
For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love YHWH your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

Deuteronomy 30:15-16
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love YHWH thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments

Joshua 22:5
But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of YHWH charged you, to love YHWH your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul

it’s like saying you’re a vegetarian but you eat meat. You can’t be a vegetarian without doing what it takes to be a vegetarian.

We can’t love God without doing what it takes to love God, which is obey his laws, statutes & commandments.

You can’t love the God of Jacob with all your heart and not obey his law.

Maybe you can for some other god, but not the God of Israel.

Loving God and loving your neighbor is what all of the law is based on, but they do not make up the entire law.

Where did Messiah teach you or anybody to disobey God’s law ?
 
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