Blameless in the Law

[bbbbbbb]

If you want to be against God's word, then you have that freedom, but I would advise that you instead heed the Gospel message and repent.

Not a problem at all. I just confess to God my sins and I am good to go.

 

[Soyeong]

Confessing sins is contrary to being an antinomian.

 

[Zao is life]

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Christ is the goal of the Torah. As such, Philippians 3:8-9 should not be interpreted as saying that we just need to know Christ and being zealous for obeying the Torah is dung, but rather Paul had been keeping the Torah without being focusing on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the Torah, and that is what he counted as dung. The goal of the Torah was never to provide of means of earning our righteousness as a wage even through perfect obedience, so that has never been the reason why we should obey it. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we do not earn our salvation as the result of having done those works and we do not need to do those works as the result of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of salvation.


The foreshadows testify about what is to come and we should live in a way that testifies about the truth of what is to come rather than a way that denies it.


The Torah leads us to Christ because its goal is to teach us how to know him, but it does not lead us to Christ so that we can then reject what he taught.


While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was justified (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience to God, but he did not earn his justification by his obedience to God as a wage (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith complete his works, so he was justified by his works insofar as they were an expression of his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

So becoming someone who has faith, who is justified, and who is a doer of the law are all linked such that we become all three at the same time, so anyone who has one also is the others and anyone who is missing one is also missing the others. This is how Paul can say that only doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13), that we are justified by faith apart from having done any works to earn it, and that the faith by which we are justified does not abolish our need to be a doer of the law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:31).

The Torah is God's instructions for how to do what is righteous, not for how to become righteous. For example, the Torah reveals that it is righteous to help the poor, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous because the one an do only way to become righteous is by grace through faith. So when God declares us to be righteous, He is also declaring us to be someone who chooses to do what is righteous in obedience to His law, which is the the content of the gift of righteousness.

Your entire post makes it clear that you don't even know what is lawlessness in terms of the New Covenant, because you don't even know what is law in terms of the New Covenant - the New Covenant which in Christ replaced, and will forever replace the Old Covenant of law.

The law was instruction for how to know what is righteousness, but it could never produce the ability to do the righteousness required by the law so as to become righteous. Hence it could never and will never produce the righteousness you seek the law to produce.

 

[Soyeong]

Your entire post makes it clear that you don't even know what is lawlessness in terms of the New Covenant, because you don't even know what is law in terms of the New Covenant - the New Covenant which in Christ replaced, and will forever replace the Old Covenant of law.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Torah is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Torah by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of nullifying everything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33).

The law was instruction for how to know what is righteousness, but it could never produce the ability to do the righteousness required by the law so as to become righteous. Hence it could never and will never produce the righteousness you seek the law to produce.

Indeed, God's law was never given for the purpose of producing righteousness and I've never stated that I seek the law to produce righteousness because that was never the reason for why we should obey it, but rather it teaches us about what the way that the righteous live as it teaches us about the way that Christ lives. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, and in 1 John 3:7 whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Again, in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is not earned as the product of having done what is righteous and we do not do what is righteous as the product of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do what is righteous itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing what is righteous.

 

[Zao is life]

Indeed, God's law .. teaches us about what the way that the righteous live as it teaches us about the way that Christ lives.

The fruit of the Spirit, which is the fruit of the Vine (Christ) teaches us about the way the righteous live, and the fruit of the Spirit is not lawless, it fulfills the law.

It is the fruit of the Vine which no one can produce unless he abides in the Vine.

The written law that you seek to keep alive and as the equal of the fruit of the Vine, which is the Holy Spirit, was merely the pattern and shadow of the fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the law of God written on the hearts, rather than on paper, or in tablets of stone.

Your written law which you demand has eternal life, is not the fruit of the Holy Spirit of Christ which cast its shadow in the written law and man-made tabernacle. Your written law was abolished in the flesh of Christ. The New Covenant is come, and the only way to fulfill the law is not through obedience to the written law which has been abolished, but to believe in Jesus the Messiah and to love one another, which is the evidence of abiding in the Vine.

Obedience to written law is not the fruit of the Spirit.

Jesus did not teach anyone to obey the written law - He taught us all to abide in the Vine in order to produce the fruit of the Spirit which the written law is a shadow of, so that in Him we can fulfill the law - the law which the written law points to and was merely a shadow and pattern of - not through obedience to the written law, but through abiding in the Vine through faith in Him. God wants our faith to be in Jesus alone, not in Jesus + obedience to the written law that has been abolished in the flesh of Christ.

Attempts at obedience to the written law will always indict us of sin. The ten commandments in the Ark of the Covenant are a testimony against us, not for us, because we have all broken it, and cannot obey it. This is why it was covered by the mercy seat sprinkled with the blood by the High Priest on the day of Atonement. Your obedience to the written law is against you, not for you. Faith in Christ alone and abiding in Him so that His fruit - the fruit of the Spirit - can be found in you, will fulfill what the written law pointed to.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah,

Jesus came to die for us, not to tell us to keep the Torah.

so he would have still taught full obedience to it even if he had said nothing,

He didn't teach obedience to it.
He did not teach it was necessary to be circumcised, offer animal sacrifices, tithe, refrain from eating pork etc etc. He was sinless, yet according to the Pharisees, he broke the law - by healing on the Sabbath, by allowing his disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath, by touching lepers and a woman who was bleeding. Jesus fulfilled the law.
What he DID teach was that he is the only Way to the Father, that if a person does not come to him, they will not have eternal life and that his blood - not the blood of animals - was of the NEW Covenant.

but Gentiles can't follow him by refusing to follow what he taught.

We don't.
He didn't teach the law. He didn't say that people would be stoned to death for not keeping the sabbath - as Moses had said. He taught that the Sabbath was made for man and that the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.
He didn't say that men could write their wives a note and send them away, as Moses had done - he said that in the beginning, men and women were made in the image of God.
He didn't say that boys had to be circumcised to be children of Abraham - he taught that God is our Father, and we enter his Kingdom by being born again.

Following his example of reframing from sin does not refer to things like wearing robes and sandals.

You're saying that we have to live as Jesus did. That is how he lived - as a Jewish man in Israel in the first century. You're saying that we have to be under the law because he was - how far do you take that?

In Deuteronomy 6:4-7, the way to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength is by keeping the Torah on our heart and by teaching and speaking about it throughout the day.

The way that the OT Hebrews were to love God was to keep the Torah.
The Way for us to come to God is through Jesus. Jesus said that if we accept him, we are accepting God too; John says that if we love Jesus, we love the Father also.

If love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, adultery, murder, theft, kidnapping, rape, favoritism, and so forth for God's other laws, so the reason why the laws hang on the greatest two commandments is because they are all examples of what it means to correctly.

If you're talking about the 10 commandments, then yes.
Jesus affirmed the 10 commandments. He summed them up by saying "Love God and love your neighbour".
We can't claim to love God if we are putting other things before him, have idols, take his name in vain etc. We can't claim to love our neighbour if we steal from them, take their wife or possessions, kill or harm them.

But the OT law also taught circumcision, tithing, not eating pork, wearing robes made from only one fabric - Jesus didn't.
It also taught that touching a dead body, person with a skin condition or was bleeding made a person unclean - Jesus did all those things.
You have said that the former laws, which are written in Leviticus - should be kept, but that the latter - also written in Leviticus - don't need to be.

So if you believe that you should obey the greatest two commandments, then you should also believe that you should obey God's other commandments.

Like the command to stone someone to death if they do not keep the Sabbath?
Do that, and you'll be locked up for murder.

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from it, so he did not do that, but even if he could have done that without disqualifying himself as our Savior, then that would mean that we should still obey the Mosaic Law plus what he added to it.

Jesus - the author and fulfiller of the NEW Covenant - did not teach his followers to live under Moses.
You can if you want to; I am in Christ.

The reason why God commanded circumcised was never as a means of earning our salvation, so while Paul spoke against become circumcised for incorrect reasons, he never spoke against obeying what God has commanded.

Circumcision was a sign of the covenant that God made with Abraham that he would be the father of many nations.
Moses was nearly killed by God because he had not been circumcised, Exodus 4:24. People who were not circumcised were not under the covenant and therefore not God's people - pagans, unbelievers.
We are believers and God's children because we accept Jesus - who died on the cross for us, John 1:12. We enter God's Kingdom through his Spirit, John 3:3 and his Spirit affirms that we are his children.

Paul did not condemn circumcision done "for the wrong reasons". He said that if men allowed themselves to be circumcised then it meant that Christ was of no use to them at all, Galatians 5:2. A man who has accepted Christ as his Saviour, has become God's child and has his Spirit living in him, who says "now I need to be circumcised to show that I am one of God's people", negates everything that Christ did.

Jesus did spend his ministry teaching how to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and then his commissioned his disciples to make disciples of all nations, teaching everything that he taught them.

And he taught the that only HE is the way to the Father, and is the giver of eternal life.

If Jesus taught that we have to live in obedience to Moses, then the book of Hebrews, which says that Jesus is greater than Moses, is mistaken.
So is Paul, when he says that we are children of Sarah (representing God's promise) and not of Hagar (representing slavery and the law), Galatians 4:21-31.)

To fulfill the law is "to cause God's will as made known through His law to be obeyed as he should be", so fulfilling the law is teaching it.

No, it isn't.
The law said that if someone had sinned they were required to offer a perfect lamb, or animal, in atonement. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29, 1 Peter 1:19-20. Therefore Jesus has fulfilled the law's requirement.
The law told the Hebrew slaves how they were to live as God's holy people. "Holy" means "set apart". All the nations around them had many gods - God's people were to have only one. Jesus said that the greatest command is to love God with all our heart etc and to seek first his kingdom. Jesus himself was, and is, God, and told us to love one another as he loves us.
The law said that the Hebrew slaves were to show they were holy and clean by not eating unclean animals, not wearing clothes made of two different fibres, not sowing more than one crop in their fields. Jesus makes us holy; if we live a life committed to him, we are showing that we belong to him. If we confess our sins, God will forgive us and make us clean through Jesus, 1 John 1:9. Food does not contaminate us nor condemn us - not believing in Jesus condemns us, 1 John 5:12.
The law said that each Jewish male had to go to Jerusalem to keep the Jewish feasts, Exodus 23:14-19.
Unleavened bread was bread made without yeast. Christ is the bread of life, John 6:35, and was without sin - in the NT, "yeast" often represents sin - 1 Corinthians 5:6-8. So Jesus fulfilled that feast.
Passover was when the Israelites remembered how the angel of death passed over the homes of their ancestors, who were protected by the blood of a lamb, Exodus 12:12-13. Any Israelite who did not obey the Lord and put lamb's blood on their door would have been destroyed. The Israelites were to celebrate Passover each year. No uncircumcised person could celebrate it; no foreigner could celebrate it unless they were first circumcised, Exodus 12:43-49. Jesus has saved us from sin and death by his blood - the blood of a spotless lamb - shed on the cross. Jesus has fulfilled Passover, 1 Corinthians 5:7.
The feast of Tabernacles was when the Israelites remembered their time in the wilderness, Leviticus 23:41-43. Jesus, the Word made flesh, was tabernacled among us, John 1:14.
Jesus fulfilled - completed - these laws and feats.

In Matthew 19:17 and Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying. God's commandments.

Jesus commanded us to love as he loved us. He did not command us to refrain from eating pork - which was what God had told the OT Hebrew slaves.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Torah is how we know what sin is

I knew what sin was before I had even heard of the Torah.
So did the people of Noah's day who didn't have it.

The God of Israel gave instructions for how to believe in and follow Him, so the extent that you refuse to follow those instructions is the extent that you do not believe in or follow Him.

In your opinion - that's not what God says.
Jesus did not say "believe in me, but keep the whole of the Torah too".
He did not say "I am the Way, the Truth and the life - but you still have to keep the Torah to come to the Father."
The Apostles did not teach, "come to Christ, be circumcised for the right reason and keep the Torah - then you will be holy."

As I've said before, if you believe it is right for you to keep the whole Torah, then do so.
I learned about sin, about Jesus about the God who loves and saves us and about the Holy Spirit long before I read the OT. I have no Jewish ancestors and was not brought up under Jewish law.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Confessing sins is contrary to being an antinomian.

Not at all. To confess is not to be conflated with to repent. There are multitudes of people who confess to various crimes in court who are not in the least bit repentant. I remember a man in a Kentucky prison who was part of a family clan in the mountains of eastern Kentucky which was engaged in settling an ongoing feud with another clan. He had murdered a member of the other clan and was in prison for it. He was an ideal prisoner and was quite content in being in prison where he was safe from the retribution of the other clan. He would be paroled in a few years and had already planned the murder of the next member of the other clan.

 

[Der Alte]

In the mid 90s I was working for Dept of Defense in the SF bay area. I was transferred to Marine Corps Air Station El Toro, now closed, in Irvine Ca. I lived 19 miles from Disney land. I was having cable installed, the installer had a very distinctive speaking voice. My wife, never shy, mentioned it and said "You should use you voice for the glory of God." He said "I do, I am the cantor for my synagogue." I had to explain what a cantor was to my wife. What started out as a simple 30-45 min cable installation turned into a 45 min-1 hr fellowship. He grew up on the east coast as a Jew, he went to UCLA where he encountered Campus Crusade and became a messianic Jew. They still observed all the feasts, festivals etc. of the OT but not as a legal requirement but a celebration of their Jewish heritage. His night job he was the voice of the then San Diego Chargers.

 

[Soyeong]

The fruit of the Spirit, which is the fruit of the Vine (Christ) teaches us about the way the righteous live, and the fruit of the Spirit is not lawless, it fulfills the law.

It is the fruit of the Vine which no one can produce unless he abides in the Vine.

The written law that you seek to keep alive and as the equal of the fruit of the Vine, which is the Holy Spirit, was merely the pattern and shadow of the fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the law of God written on the hearts, rather than on paper, or in tablets of stone.

Your written law which you demand has eternal life, is not the fruit of the Holy Spirit of Christ which cast its shadow in the written law and man-made tabernacle. Your written law was abolished in the flesh of Christ. The New Covenant is come, and the only way to fulfill the law is not through obedience to the written law which has been abolished, but to believe in Jesus the Messiah and to love one another, which is the evidence of abiding in the Vine.

Obedience to written law is not the fruit of the Spirit.

Jesus did not teach anyone to obey the written law - He taught us all to abide in the Vine in order to produce the fruit of the Spirit which the written law is a shadow of, so that in Him we can fulfill the law - the law which the written law points to and was merely a shadow and pattern of - not through obedience to the written law, but through abiding in the Vine through faith in Him. God wants our faith to be in Jesus alone, not in Jesus + obedience to the written law that has been abolished in the flesh of Christ.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), and this is because it is God's instructions for how to act in accordance with those aspects of His nature. Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His nature (Hebrews 1:3), so he makes the invisible aspects of God's nature visible by being the embodiment or personification of them, which he expressed through walking in sinless obedience to God's law. Aspects of God's nature are truth and are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law.

In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to obey His law. In Galatian 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law. After all, the Spirit is God and and the Torah was given by God.

Changing the medium upon which God's law is written does not change the content of what it instructs us to do. For example, the command to honor our parents written on stone has the same content as the command to honor our parents written on our hearts. In Deuteronomy 10:12-16, it instructed them to write God's commands on their hearts, so it doesn't refer to doing something different than what He commanded. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant still involves following the Torah.

NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo
"to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment"

Jesus fulfilled the law by spending his ministry teaching us how to correctly obey it by word and by example.

God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so we can't abide in Christ without abiding in God's law, which is why those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). God's word can't be abolished without also abolishing God's word made flesh, which is why he specifically said that he came not to abolish God's law (Matthew 5:17-19). It is contradictory have faith in God's word made flesh instead of having faith in God's word. God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so trusting in what God has instructed is the way to trust in God and we can't trust in God instead of trusting in what He has instructed.

Attempts at obedience to the written law will always indict us of sin. The ten commandments in the Ark of the Covenant are a testimony against us, not for us, because we have all broken it, and cannot obey it. This is why it was covered by the mercy seat sprinkled with the blood by the High Priest on the day of Atonement. Your obedience to the written law is against you, not for you. Faith in Christ alone and abiding in Him so that His fruit - the fruit of the Spirit - can be found in you, will fulfill what the written law pointed to.

In Deuteronomy 30:1-20, it says that the Torah is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while obedience to it brings death and a curse, so choose life! Furthermore, there are many examples of people who obeyed it, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6. It is not a testimony against those who choose life, but against those who choose death instead of life, and refusing to obey it is choosing death instead of life. It is contradictory to have faith in God's word made flesh, but not in God's word, but rather relying on God's word is the way to have faith in him alone.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus came to die for us, not to tell us to keep the Torah.

Jesus did not just come to die for us, but also had a purpose in His ministry, though both were to lead us to keep the Torah. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which he prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14), and which is in fulfillment of the promise of him being sent to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

In Galatians 4:4, Jesus was born under the law, so he was obligated to obey it, and he was sinless, so he never broke it, which includes never breaking Deuteronomy 4:2, which prohibits adding to or subtracting from the law. So he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to believe in what he accomplished though his life and through the cross (Acts 21:20).

He did not teach it was necessary to be circumcised, offer animal sacrifices, tithe, refrain from eating pork etc etc. He was sinless, yet according to the Pharisees, he broke the law - by healing on the Sabbath, by allowing his disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath, by touching lepers and a woman who was bleeding.
What he DID teach was that he is the only Way to the Father, that if a person does not come to him, they will not have eternal life and that his blood - not the blood of animals - was of the NEW Covenant.

Jesus did not establish the New Covenant until the end of his ministry, which means everything that he taught prior to that point was in regard to how to live under the Mosaic Covenant, and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). Jesus was not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, so we have no need for him to have repeated anything in order to know that we should still obey the Father, though even if had repeated nothing, then he would have still taught full obedience to the Torah by example, and we are told to follow his example.

Jesus was sinless, so he never broke the Torah, so while there were people who thought that he broke it, those people were incorrect. It is contradictory to think both that the Pharisees were correct that Jesus broke the Sabbath by healing on it and to think that Jesus was correct about it being lawful to heal on the Sabbath. It has always been lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so again those Pharisees were incorrect. It is not breaking the Torah for Jesus to touch a leper, to touch the woman suffering from bleeding, or to touch a dead body, but rather the Torah says that doing that makes someone unclean, which means that they need to become ritually clean before they can enter the temple.

The Torah is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, he is the embodiment of God's word and the way to come to his is by us also embodying God's word. The Torah is God's way (Psalms 119:1-3), the truth (Psalms 119:142), and the life (Deuteronomy 32:46-47), and the way to know the Father (Exodus 33:13), and Jesus is the embodiment of the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-7).

He taught that the Sabbath was made for man and that the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.
He didn't say that men could write their wives a note and send them away, as Moses had done - he said that in the beginning, men and women were made in the image of God.
He didn't say that boys had to be circumcised to be children of Abraham - he taught that God is our Father, and we enter his Kingdom by being born again.

In John 15:10, Jesus used a parallel statement to equate his commands with those of the Father, and he never taught anyone to rebel against what the Father has commanded. If you think that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, then you should live in a way that testifies about that truth by keeping the Sabbath holy rather than a way that denies that truth. In Matthew 19:3-9, Jesus was asked whether a man was permitted to divorce his wife for any reason, and that is what he referred to as not the case from the beginning. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus taught that obedience to the Torah is the way to enter the Kingdom and that he would tell workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Torah are not children of God.

You're saying that we have to live as Jesus did.

In 1 Peter 2:21-22, it says to follow his example of refraining from sin and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Torah that was have knowledge of sin, so it is speaking about following his example of obedience to the Torah.

The way that the OT Hebrews were to love God was to keep the Torah.
The Way for us to come to God is through Jesus. Jesus said that if we accept him, we are accepting God too; John says that if we love Jesus, we love the Father also.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of the Torah, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), which is because it is God's instructions for how to act in accordance with those aspects of His nature. By living in a way that testifies about God's righteousness in obedience to the Torah, we are expressing our love for God's righteousness, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to His commandments. So everything that God chose to command in the Torah was specifically commanded in order to teach us how to love a different aspect of His nature, so if we love him, then we will follow Hs commandments, and if we do not, then we will not.

We can't come to God through God's word made flesh by rejecting God's word, we can't accept God's word made flesh by rejecting God's word, we can't love God's word made flesh by rejecting God's word, and we can't love the Father by rejecting His word.

If you're talking about the 10 commandments, then yes.
Jesus affirmed the 10 commandments. He summed them up by saying "Love God and love your neighbour".

Jesus summed up all of the Law of the Prophets as being about how to love God and our neighbor, not just ten of God's commandments. For example, helping the poor is a way to love our neighbor even though it is not listed as one of the Ten Commandments.

But the OT law also taught circumcision, tithing, not eating pork, wearing robes made from only one fabric - Jesus didn't.
It also taught that touching a dead body, person with a skin condition or was bleeding made a person unclean - Jesus did all those things.
You have said that the former laws, which are written in Leviticus - should be kept, but that the latter - also written in Leviticus - don't need to be.

Jesus never said anything along the lines that he was editing God's law down to just what would eventually be recorded that he repeated, but rather Jesus taught those things by example even if we don't have it recorded that he repeated those things. I have not stated that any of the laws in Leviticus don't need to be followed.

Like the command to stone someone to death if they do not keep the Sabbath?

The Torah does not instruct us to go around stoning anyone that we see breaking the Sabbath.

Jesus - the author and fulfiller of the NEW Covenant - did not teach his followers to live under Moses.
You can if you want to; I am in Christ.

The New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). Likewise, according to 1 John 2:6, this who are in Christ are obligated to walk in obedience to the Torah.

Paul did not condemn circumcision done "for the wrong reasons". He said that if men allowed themselves to be circumcised then it meant that Christ was of no use to them at all, Galatians 5:2.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Torah (1 John 3:4), so someone can't accept Jesus as their Savior from living in transgression of the Torah while they are refusing to live in obedience to it.

If Galatians 5:2 is speaking against becoming circumcised for any reason instead of just the wrong reasons, then Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for him was if they Torah against obeying the Torah, so if you think that he did that, then according to God you should consider him to be a false prophet, though the reality is that Paul was a servant of God who never spoke against anyone obeying what God has commanded.

And he taught the that only HE is the way to the Father, and is the giver of eternal life.

If Jesus taught that we have to live in obedience to Moses, then the book of Hebrews, which says that Jesus is greater than Moses, is mistaken.
So is Paul, when he says that we are children of Sarah (representing God's promise) and not of Hagar (representing slavery and the law), Galatians 4:21-31.)

Jesus is the embodiment of God's word, so the way to the Father is through us also embodying God's word through following his example. While it is true that Jesus is greater than Moses, the same God who gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus to spend his ministry teaching us how to obey it, so there is no disagreement. The Torah came through the line of the free woman in accordance with the promise. If God saved the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt in order to put them under slavery to the Torah, then it would be for slavery that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, which completely undermines how you are interpreting Galatians 4:21-31).

The law told the Hebrew slaves how they were to live as God's holy people.
1 Corinthians 5:7.
Jesus fulfilled - completed - these laws and feats.

NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo
"to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment"

Jesus fulfilled the Torah by spending his ministry teaching us how to correctly obey it by word and by example. According to Galatians 5:14, everyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire Torah, so it does not refer to something unique that Jesus did to do away with its requirement. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, which again refers to correctly obeying it, not to doing away with our requirement to obey it. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul fulfilled the Gospel by teaching Gentiles to obey it in word and in deed, not by doing away with it. When a husband is fulfilling His marriage vows, he is correctly doing what he vowed to do, not doing away with his marriage. Furthermore, there is much discussion in other Jews writings about how to fulfill the law in regard to the way to correct obey it.

In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, so by someone following those instructions they are expressing their love for God's holiness and by not following those instructions, they expressing that holiness is an aspect of God's nature that they do not love. If God were not holy, He had not given instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and that would make no difference to the way that someone chooses to live, then they would be treating God as if He were not holy, and they would be bearing false witness against God by living in a way that testifies that the God that they follow is not holy,

1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul concluded by saying that we should therefore continue to observe Passover. By keeping Passover, we are living in a way that testifies about the truth of what Passover teaches us about who Christ is and about what is to come while someone who does not keep Passover is bearing false witness against the truth of those things. The only way that someone should no longer follow God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy is if God is no longer eternally holy, and the only way that we should no longer observe Passover is if what it teaches us about Jesus is no longer true.

Jesus commanded us to love as he loved us. He did not command us to refrain from eating pork - which was what God had told the OT Hebrew slaves.

The fact that Jesus commanded us to love as he loved does not negate the fact that he taught that the way to experience eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. Jesus summarizes the Torah as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so obeying it is how he expressed his love for us, refraining from eating pork was part of how he expressed his love for the Father, and we should love as he loved. Again, the Bible repeatedly says in both the OT and the NT that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments.

I knew what sin was before I had even heard of the Torah.
So did the people of Noah's day who didn't have it.

Sin was in the world before the Torah was given (Romans 5:13), so there was nothing that became sinful when it was given, but rather it revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. It remains true that it is by the Torah that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), that we would not even know what sin is if it weren't for the Torah (Romans 7:7), and sin is defined as the transgression of the Torah (1 John 3:4). The knowledge of sin that you had of sin before you had even heard of the Torah nevertheless still came from a source that was based on the Torah. In Exodus 33:13 and Psalms 119:29, they wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to walk in His way in obedience to the Torah, and in Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way in obedience to the Torah and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith.

In your opinion - that's not what God says.
Jesus did not say "believe in me, but keep the whole of the Torah too".
He did not say "I am the Way, the Truth and the life - but you still have to keep the Torah to come to the Father."
The Apostles did not teach, "come to Christ, be circumcised for the right reason and keep the Torah - then you will be holy."

As I've said before, if you believe it is right for you to keep the whole Torah, then do so.
I learned about sin, about Jesus about the God who loves and saves us and about the Holy Spirit long before I read the OT. I have no Jewish ancestors and was not brought up under Jewish law.

God's word is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, which is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to His commandments. For example, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. The Torah teaches us to how to practice righteousness and Jesus is the embodiment of righteousness expressed through living in sinless obedience to the Torah, so the Torah is the way to the Father and Jesus embodied the way to Him. Us embodying God's word through following the one who is the embodiment of God's word is not a different way to the Father.

Indeed, you may have learned about those things by reading the NT before you had read the OT, but everything taught in the NT is based on what was taught in the OT. About 1/3 of the verses in the NT contain quotes or allusions to the OT, which the NT authors did thousands of times in order to show that it supported what they were saying and to show that they hadn't departed from it, so they certainly saw the OT as still being authoritative. For example, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy to defeat the temptations of Satan, so he affirmed its authority. In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so according to that precedent, that is the standard by which we should accept the truth of what is written in the NT.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus did not just come to die for us,

Yes, he did.
Obviously he could not die for us as a baby. So he grew up, taught about God and showed the Jews that, after 400 years of silence, without any prophets, God still cared and he loved them.

though both were to lead us to keep the Torah.

Jesus did not live a perfect life and die an agonising death to tell us that we should keep the law.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles,

The JEWS were meant to be a light for the Gentiles.
The Kingdom of God began when King Jesus began his ministry - and no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless they are born again.

So he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example.

So you keep saying - yet you have provided no evidence that Jesus told Gentiles to obey the law given to Hebrew slaves at Sinai.

Jesus did not establish the New Covenant until the end of his ministry, which means everything that he taught prior to that point was in regard to how to live under the Mosaic Covenant,

Jesus never told us to live under the Mosaic Covenant.

Jesus was sinless, so he never broke the Torah, so while there were people who thought that he broke it, those people were incorrect.

Yes, they were.
But according to their law, written in Leviticus, anyone who touched a dead person or someone with a skin condition or who was bleeding, was ceremonially unclean. There were instructions, written in the law, about how to become clean; what sacrifices to offer.

The Torah is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh,

Jesus is God's eternal and living Word - and his last Word on revelation and salvation.

The Mosaic law was given only through Moses - Jesus was God's Word long before Moses was even thought of.
God spoke ...... and it was so, Genesis 1. Everything was created through Jesus, the Word of God, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2.

he is the embodiment of God's word

No, he IS God's Word - and God.

and the way to come to his is by us also embodying God's word.

No, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus.
Anyone who believes in, accepts, trusts in Jesus and lives in him, is in the Word.
We have every spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3 and are heirs of God together with Christ, Romans 8:17. All of God's promises are "yes" in Christ, 2 Corinthians 1:20. Jesus told us that HE is the Vine and we are the branches, John 15:1-2. We are to remain in him, abide in him.
Only Jesus gives us these blessings, assurances and promises - not the Torah; Jesus.

Jesus is the embodiment of the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-7).

Jesus IS the Way, the Truth and the life.

In John 15:10, Jesus used a parallel statement to equate his commands with those of the Father,

Yes, HIS commands - not the instructions given to the Hebrew slaves when they came out of Egypt.

We can't come to God through God's word made flesh by rejecting God's word,

Anyone who comes to Jesus and trusts in him has accepted God's Word.
The eternal Word made flesh is Jesus.

The Torah does not instruct us to go around stoning anyone that we see breaking the Sabbath.

Well you're going to have to define what you mean by Torah, then - because that's exactly what happened in the book of Numbers, Numbers 15:32-36. The Lord commanded Moses to stone the man who had broken the sabbath.

The New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33).

No, it doesn't.
As the book of Hebrews says, where there is a new covenant, it means the old is obsolete, Hebrews 8:13.
If there had been nothing wrong with the old covenant, or if it had not been broken, there would have been no need for a new one.

If you are married, you have entered into a covenant with each other. If one of you were to have an affair that covenant - "forsaking all others" - would have been broken. If the other person forgave, wanted the person back and the marriage to continue, you might very well renew your wedding vows. If the person was unable to forgive, they could file for divorce - legal separation - on the grounds of adultery.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Torah (1 John 3:4), so someone can't accept Jesus as their Savior from living in transgression of the Torah while they are refusing to live in obedience to it.

Sin was in the world long before the Torah was - the flood didn't come because God wanted to water the earth.

To be continued possibly.

 

[Strong in Him]

Continued.

It remains true that it is by the Torah that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), that we would not even know what sin is if it weren't for the Torah (Romans 7:7),

Adam knew what sin was, and he didn't have the Torah.
After he ate the fruit he was ashamed and hid from God.

and sin is defined as the transgression of the Torah (1 John 3:4).

Adam, Cain and the people of Noah's day sinned before they had the Torah. They were punished for their sin; they were not told "it's ok, you didn't have the Torah, you didn't know."

in Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way in obedience to the Torah and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith.

He believed in God and was faithful to him; he didn't have the Torah.

God's word is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus,

Jesus came, lived, taught, healed and made claims about himself. We either believe him, or we don't.
The Bible does not tell us how to come to Jesus and believe, we are just invited/told to do it.

The Torah teaches us to how to practice righteousness and Jesus is the embodiment of righteousness expressed through living in sinless obedience to the Torah,

Jesus IS righteous and makes us righteous, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

so the Torah is the way to the Father

Sin separates us from God - the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23. After Adam and Eve sinned their relationship with God was broken. They did die that day - spiritually. From then on, they had to offer sacrifices to atone for their sin.

Jesus died for our sin, Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45.
Jesus is the Way to the Father.
Jesus gives us eternal life, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 6:40, 1 John 5:12.
Jesus reconciles us to God, Romans 5:11, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
Through Jesus, we have peace with God, Romans 5:1.

A person will not be given eternal life by keeping the Torah perfectly - and they won't be able to, anyway.

Indeed, you may have learned about those things by reading the NT before you had read the OT, but everything taught in the NT is based on what was taught in the OT.

The OT prophesied Jesus' coming, yes.
The OT tells us of God's creation and shows us his relationship with his people. It is very important - I have never said that we don't need the OT.

But in the OT if people looked at God, they would die. Very few people heard from God or talked to him directly.
In the NT people looked at, listened to and could even touch God - in Jesus, 1 John 1:1-2. Even though they didn't know it.
Because of Jesus, not only can we talk to God and call him Abba, we can have God himself living inside us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Maybe Mr. Soyeong needs to define exactly what he understands the 'Torah' to be...

If it is God's Word i.e. Jesus then the discussion will change dramatically.

 

[Zao is life]

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), and this is because it is God's instructions for how to act in accordance with those aspects of His nature. Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His nature (Hebrews 1:3), so he makes the invisible aspects of God's nature visible by being the embodiment or personification of them, which he expressed through walking in sinless obedience to God's law. Aspects of God's nature are truth and are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law.

In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to obey His law. In Galatian 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law. After all, the Spirit is God and and the Torah was given by God.

Changing the medium upon which God's law is written does not change the content of what it instructs us to do. For example, the command to honor our parents written on stone has the same content as the command to honor our parents written on our hearts. In Deuteronomy 10:12-16, it instructed them to write God's commands on their hearts, so it doesn't refer to doing something different than what He commanded. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant still involves following the Torah.

NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo
"to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment"

Jesus fulfilled the law by spending his ministry teaching us how to correctly obey it by word and by example.

God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so we can't abide in Christ without abiding in God's law, which is why those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). God's word can't be abolished without also abolishing God's word made flesh, which is why he specifically said that he came not to abolish God's law (Matthew 5:17-19). It is contradictory have faith in God's word made flesh instead of having faith in God's word. God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so trusting in what God has instructed is the way to trust in God and we can't trust in God instead of trusting in what He has instructed.


In Deuteronomy 30:1-20, it says that the Torah is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while obedience to it brings death and a curse, so choose life! Furthermore, there are many examples of people who obeyed it, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6. It is not a testimony against those who choose life, but against those who choose death instead of life, and refusing to obey it is choosing death instead of life. It is contradictory to have faith in God's word made flesh, but not in God's word, but rather relying on God's word is the way to have faith in him alone.

You will never enter the Most Holy Place in heaven through obedience to the written law. The law brings death (Romans 7:9-13) and only had jurisdiction over God's elect in Christ until Christ, the last Adam, died for us (Romans 7:1-4).

"But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6.

The One who is seated at the right hand of the Father in the Most Holy Place, who entered once for all on our behalf with His own blood, has died to the law, and risen again, and is alive to God forevermore.

God is Spirit, and "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23.

Your access to the Most Holy Place is through faith in Christ alone, and you could do nothing to earn it or deserve it, it is not through faith in Christ + your obedience to the written law which was merely the shadow and pattern of the real thing.

You are equating the living Spirit of God with the written law which was given because of the transgression, and obedience to it can never ever earn us anything in terms of God's perfect righteousness which is the requirement - what you need to obtain through your obedience to Moses' law if you want to continue to equate the law of Moses with the living God, and the righteousness of the living God.

Moses perished in the wilderness where all who perished in unbelief perished. He was not allowed to enter the promised land.

 

[Soyeong]

Maybe Mr. Soyeong needs to define exactly what he understands the 'Torah' to be...

If it is God's Word i.e. Jesus then the discussion will change dramatically.

God’s word is either what God has directly spoken or indirectly spoken through the prophets. In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, God directly spoke the Torah to Moses and he wrote everything down without departing from it, so it is God’s word. The Torah was given as a gift by God to teach us how to know Him through experiencing aspects of His moral nature, such as holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, and other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 33:13). If all these invisible aspects of God’s nature were personified into the image of a body that we can see, then that would be the Son. This why the Son is God’s word made flesh (John 1:14), the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), the radiance of God’s glory and the exact image of His nature (Hebrew 1:3), and why he set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah. As such, it is contradictory to trust in God while not trusting in His word and contradictory to have faith in the Son while not having faith in his example of obedience to the Torah.

 

[Strong in Him]

God’s word is either what God has directly spoken or indirectly spoken through the prophets. In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, God directly spoke the Torah to Moses and he wrote everything down without departing from it, so it is God’s word.

Yes, but are you defining "Torah" as that which was spoken to Moses?

The first 5 books of the Bible are the Torah. So when you use the word, do you mean everything that is recorded in them and which, tradition says, were written by Moses? because if you are, then in does say in the Torah that someone was stoned to death for not keeping the Sabbath, and also that certain things/illnesses make people unclean.
Or are you using the word "Torah" to mean "God's word" - everything he spoke to Moses, Elijah, David and the prophets?

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, but are you defining "Torah" as that which was spoken to Moses?

The first 5 books of the Bible are the Torah. So when you use the word, do you mean everything that is recorded in them and which, tradition says, were written by Moses? because if you are, then in does say in the Torah that someone was stoned to death for not keeping the Sabbath, and also that certain things/illnesses make people unclean.
Or are you using the word "Torah" to mean "God's word" - everything he spoke to Moses, Elijah, David and the prophets?

"Torah" refers to the Books of Moses or to the instructions that they contain. The other parts of the Tanakh are referred to as the Writings and Prophets.

While the Torah does contain the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath, it does not instruct us to go around stoning anyone that we see breaking the Sabbath, and that is not what was done in Numbers 15:32-36, but rather it instructs for a judge to do a thorough investigation into the matter, that no one is to be put to death without two or three witnesses, and that if someone bears false witness, then they receive the penalty instead.

Likewise, while the Torah does contain instructions for ways that someone becomes unclean, it is not breaking the Torah to become unclean, so it is not a sin, but rather it just means that someone who is unclean is not permitted to enter the temple and must be cleaned before they do that. People could become unclean by being in the same room as a dead body, so if someone suddenly died in front of them, then they would become unclean through no fault of their own, but that is not a sin.

 

[Strong in Him]

"Torah" refers to the Books of Moses or to the instructions that they contain. The other parts of the Tanakh are referred to as the Writings and Prophets.

I know; I was asking you how you define Torah?
When you say that no one knew what sin was before the Torah/Jesus kept the Torah perfectly/Jesus embodied the Torah, do you mean, everything written in the first 5 books of the OT, the 10 commandments, the whole law as given to Moses or something else?

While the Torah does contain the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath, it does not instruct us to go around stoning anyone that we see breaking the Sabbath,

It doesn't instruct us at all, that's the point.
We can learn from the Torah. Leviticus became far more interesting when I considered Jesus fulfilling the law/feasts - but I'm not required to offer animal sacrifices.
We can see from the Torah how God required the people whom he had saved to be holy, thus foreshadowing the NT - but I am not commanded to wear clothes that consist of only one fabric. Which is more or less impossible; clothing has changed a great deal since Bible times.
We can learn how God gave his law, made a covenant with his people and that there were consequences for breaking that covenant. But if I were still single, I would not be required to find a Jewish husband to be under his protection and become a child of God through the covenant of circumcision.

Likewise, while the Torah does contain instructions for ways that someone becomes unclean, it is not breaking the Torah to become unclean, so it is not a sin, but rather it just means that someone who is unclean is not permitted to enter the temple

The Jews have no temple, nor do they offer animal sacrifices. Seems that they are unable to keep their own law.

However, Jesus said that if we are about to offer a gift to God and remember that we have a grievance against our brother or sister, we must leave our gift and go and make peace with them, Matthew 5:23. He said elsewhere that it is what comes out of the heart that makes a person unclean, Mark 7:21-22. And that the mouth speaks what the heart is full of, Luke 6:45.
This is why, in our church services at least, we have a time of confession before we hear and receive God's word - confess and be made clean.

 

[Der Alte]

Another source one might consider in determining the correct translation of Hebrew words in the O.T. is the 1917 Jewish Publication Society English translation of the O.T. Free at this link.

Online Bible

 

[ladodgers6]

God’s word is either what God has directly spoken or indirectly spoken through the prophets. In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, God directly spoke the Torah to Moses and he wrote everything down without departing from it, so it is God’s word. The Torah was given as a gift by God to teach us how to know Him through experiencing aspects of His moral nature, such as holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, and other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 33:13). If all these invisible aspects of God’s nature were personified into the image of a body that we can see, then that would be the Son. This why the Son is God’s word made flesh (John 1:14), the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), the radiance of God’s glory and the exact image of His nature (Hebrew 1:3), and why he set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah. As such, it is contradictory to trust in God while not trusting in His word and contradictory to have faith in the Son while not having faith in his example of obedience to the Torah.

Great post Soyeong, but again I will ask you how is a condemned sinner under the curse of the law able to fulfill God's Law, while being full of sin in the first Adam and with personal iniquities? I do agree as I said before that the Law must be fulfilled with not a single blemish of sin. Do you see the dilemma?