Blameless in the Law

[Strong in Him]

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

Do you know the definition of sin?

Those 2 questions only required a "yes" or "no" answer.

 

[HARK!]

Right, so you DO believe that faith in Jesus isn't enough; that we can't be a disciple, or maybe even be saved, unless we live as he did - circumcised, Aramaic speaking, inhabitants of Israel?

Can we believe in Yahshua while not believing in the Torah?

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for the writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing this writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"

 

[Strong in Him]

No way!

Presumably you get through a lot of sacrifices to atone for your sins, then.

The final trump is still to come. Judgement day, still to come. Wedding feast, still to come;

I didn't even mention those.

and the feasts and sacrifices will continue in the kingdom to come.

It says that .... where?
Why will we be offering sacrifices in heaven?

 

[Strong in Him]

Can we believe in Yahshua while not believing in the Torah?

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for the writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing this writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"

Believing that the OT prophets and Scripture spoke of Jesus and pointed to his coming is completely different from saying that the OT Scriptures mean that we have to keep the law.

The OT feasts and sacrifices pointed to Jesus, Abraham, Moses etc pointed to Jesus - and the law itself was only a shadow of what was to come in Jesus.
It's all about Jesus - and he needs no help whatsoever to save us.

 

[HARK!]

Are you saying that it's our own actions that determine whether or not we enter the Kingdom?

Did I say that? here is what Yahshua says:

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

What do you think this means?

Again, the Torah still exists and nothing has passed from it - but it is not for Gentile believers.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel. Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Do you believe that there is another way?

 

[HARK!]

Presumably you get through a lot of sacrifices to atone for your sins, then.

Why would you presume that?

I didn't even mention those.

I did.

It says that .... where?
Why will we be offering sacrifices in heaven?

I didn't say heaven. I said kingdom to come.

I have a very large file on this subject; and I have only begun to research the wealth of scripture in this subject.

Here are just two examples:

Sacrifices in the Kingdom:

(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

YHWH's Moedim (Feasts) in the Kingdom:

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate »the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

 

[HARK!]

Believing that the OT prophets and Scripture spoke of Jesus and pointed to his coming is completely different from saying that the OT Scriptures mean that we have to keep the law

Here is what Yahshua says:

(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'

(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'

The OT feasts and sacrifices pointed to Jesus, Abraham, Moses etc pointed to Jesus - and the law itself was only a shadow of what was to come in Jesus.

You speak of the Law and Moedim in the past tense. That is not what scripture says.

Colossians 2:17
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Future tense.

Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Future tense.

It's all about Jesus - and he needs no help whatsoever to save us.

Yahshua gave all esteem to YHWH. It's all about YHWH. YHWH saves us; as it is written.


YesheYahu (Isa) 43:
11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside Me there is no savior

 

[Strong in Him]

Did I say that? here is what Yahshua says:

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

What do you think this means?

It means what it says.
The question is, how do you become righteous; through works, obeying the law and being good, or through Christ?
2 Corinthians 5:21.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel. Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

He made a NEW covenant; sealed by the blood of his Son, Matthew 26:28.
And Jesus spoke to, taught and healed Gentiles.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Jesus said this after his disciples told him to send the Syro-phonecian woman away.
He didn't - he listened to her, commended her for her faith and healed her daughter.

Didn't someone say something about context?

 

[Strong in Him]

Here is what Yahshua says:

(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'

(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'

I know what he said; that doesn't answer my point.
Do we have to keep the laws in Leviticus to be saved and be good disciples; yes or no?

You speak of the Law and Moedim in the past tense. That is not what scripture says.

So it exists now for the Jew; present tense.
I am not Jewish.

Here is what Yahshua says:
Yahshua gave all esteem to YHWH. It's all about YHWH. YHWH saves us; as it is written.

Great - that's what I've been saying all along.
Jesus saves us. Not Jesus + anything else; only Jesus.

 

[Strong in Him]

Why would you presume that?

Because I asked f you believed that Christ has fulfilled the sacrifices for sin by dying once and for all, and you said "no way!"

I did.

But I wrote a post describing how I believe Christ has fulfilled certain feasts - you can't mention the ones I left out and then criticise me for leaving them out.
Obviously he hasn't returned yet, so therefore I did not claim that ALL feasts had been fulfilled yet.

I didn't say heaven. I said kingdom to come.

God's kingdom is here now; it started when Jesus the king was on earth.
It will come in all it's fulness when Jesus returns.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think that I'm feeling a little speck in my eye. It might be a speck of dust from one of my tzitzits, which might not have been completely purified in my tzitzit miikveh. Would you take a look at it for me, Brother?

Sure, but first I will need your aid with the plank in my own eye. Can you help me with that?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Are you saying that it's our own actions that determine whether or not we enter the Kingdom?
John 3:3.
Again, the Torah still exists and nothing has passed from it - but it is not for Gentile believers.

I'm glad I am a gentile woman - that means I can't be circumcised and don't have the Torah for salvation.
All I have, and need, is Jesus.

We can hope that you don't get married and bear children, thus requiring the Levitical sacrifice to be offered in the temple in Jerusalem.

 

[Studyman]

No, Jesus didn't say that.
He said "not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom."
Even though Paul says that no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit, it is possible to say "the Lord Jesus", or sing hymns about Jesus the Lord without really understanding what that means - and practicing it.

But no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless they are born again, John 3:3.
Jesus did not say "some of you believe you have been born again, but haven't." Nor did he say that keeping the law was a condition for being born again. And Jesus is the only one who can give eternal life. I don't think anyone is "led to believe it" - they either trust in Jesus, accept him and receive eternal life, or they don't.
Keeping the law does not give us eternal life, and can't save us either.

I never said keeping the law, after I broke it, will save me. That is you twisting my words.

That's not what Jesus said.
That passage does not say that they "believed they were his children" but in fact weren't.

The passage is a warning about religious men who "Come in Christ's Name", who "Teach in Christ's Name", who "Help people in Christ's Name", "who do "many" wonderful works in Christ's name, who call Jesus their Lord, Lord.

But the Christ doesn't even know them. And the reason HE GIVES, is HE doesn't know them, because they "work" Lawlessness. Which means they "hear" the sayings of the Christ, but they refuse to humble themselves and honor Him enough to "Do" them.

An example of men like this would be the mainstream preachers of Jesus' time who claimed to be God's Children, but they transgressed God's Commandments by their own religious doctrines and Traditions.

They believed they could omit the Word's of God they didn't like or understand from Leviticus and Deuteronomy, where the Law of faith, Law of Mercy and the Law of Judgment is located.

I brought these things to your attention in case you didn't know, but you have convinced me you know full well. So my job here is done.

 

[Strong in Him]

I never said keeping the law, after I broke it, will save me. That is you twisting my words.

No, I didn't say that you said that; I was just stating the fact so as to be clear.

The passage is a warning about religious men who "Come in Christ's Name", who "Teach in Christ's Name", who "Help people in Christ's Name", "who do "many" wonderful works in Christ's name, who call Jesus their Lord, Lord.

Granted - but the passage doesn't say "they believed they were born again and children of God, but they weren't.

The Pharisees believed that Jesus' "wonderful works" were done in the name of Beelzebub. So doing wonderful works - casting out demons and other things - is no proof that someone belongs to God; they might belong to the evil one.

But the Christ doesn't even know them. And the reason HE GIVES, is HE doesn't know them, because they "work" Lawlessness. Which means they "hear" the sayings of the Christ, but they refuse to humble themselves and honor Him enough to "Do" them.

Granted, again - but keeping, and practicing the words of Jesus and obeying ALL the laws found in Leviticus are 2 different things.
Yes, I know you say that Christ wrote Leviticus, so, in a roundabout way, all the laws of Leviticus are Christ's words. But men wrote it, and the law; inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I brought these things to your attention in case you didn't know, but you have convinced me you know full well. So my job here is done.

And still you refuse to answer the question; "do Gentile Christians have to keep all the laws in Leviticus to be saved, or to live good Christian lives?"

So be it.

 

[Strong in Him]

We can hope that you don't get married and bear children, thus requiring the Levitical sacrifice to be offered in the temple in Jerusalem.

I am married. As for children; think that boat has sailed.

Mind you, the temple in Jerusalem aint there either.

 

[HARK!]

The question is, how do you become righteous

Become righteous? Do we become righteous when someone owes us money; as we choose not to sleep in their clothes?

Deuteronomy 24:10-13

When is the first opportunity that a newborn has to become righteous?

 

[HARK!]

He made a NEW covenant; sealed by the blood of his Son, Matthew 26:28.
And Jesus spoke to, taught and healed Gentiles.

I'm well aware of that. the new covenant is with Israel; and Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[HARK!]

Jesus said this after his disciples told him to send the Syro-phonecian woman away.
He didn't - he listened to her, commended her for her faith and healed her daughter.

Didn't someone say something about context?

I did. Are you attempting to make a point?

 

[HARK!]

So it exists now for the Jew; present tense.
I am not Jewish.

The Colossians were not Jewish; and neither of those verses mentions anything about Jews.

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is not Jew nor yet Greek, there is not slave nor yet free, there is not male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

 

[Strong in Him]

Become righteous? Do we become righteous when someone owes us money; as we choose not to sleep in their clothes?

What?