Blame birth control and the Pagans

Traditional culture is what they teach, and paganism is what they practice in privacy.
I don't care what you try to say, when I lived in an asian nation you'll get beaten for taking drugs and having sex, and I don't think it has changed since the past few years.

This still makes no sense.
Traditional culture has been shown to teach that sex was not bad, yet you say it teaches that it was bad.
Not to mention that paganism in the broadest sense is any religion that is not christian, jewish or muslim.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I agree with Rae that its always easier to blame everyone else than to look at the real issues.

jingwei said:

Traditional culture is what they teach, and paganism is what they practice in privacy.
I don't care what you try to say, when I lived in an asian nation you'll get beaten for taking drugs and having sex, and I don't think it has changed since the past few years.

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Exactly Arikay - it's more about blaming others than it is taking personal responsibility. It's easy to kind of deny responsbility when you can say "society made me do it" or "the pagans influenced me" but you have any strong sense of self at all you will be less likely to fall to those things if they are against your core beliefs.
I have had premarital sex- pagans didn't make me do it, Britney Spears gyrating on stage didn't make me do it, no one made me do it but myself - it was a personal choice. Good or bad, it was a personal choice nonetheless.

Man, it must be nice to be Dr. Dobson and have a convenient scapegoat handy to blame for all societal errors! Lucky bum!

Well, I do support abstinence programs, but I think we need to be realistic - sex ed programs, which last several weeks or so for an hour a day - are hardly going to combat the social messages kids are receiving through television, magazines, friends, etc. Living in a world in which premarital sex is the norm, a child is not going to respond well to a few lectures. Unless Focus on the Family is planning to pay for abstinence programs lasting 4-6 hours a day from age 8-21, I think they will have to rethink this strategy. Yes, abstinence is a wise choice, and if you can convince kids of that, good. But you can't just lecture or point fingers, you need to teach them why, and about the consequences, and about self-respect...you've got to combat the messages they receive that say women are sex objects, that dating involves sex, that only prudes and weirdos abstain. For this reason I think you really have to teach about protection, it's irresponsible to loose these kids on the world with no idea of how to protect themselves.

In a perfect world they would all have supportive parents and friends who encourage abstinence, but that isn't the case. Some kids, despite abstinence programs, despite lectures and ultimatums or growing up in a Christian house, will decide to have sex. They need to know how to best prevent stds and pregnancy.

Hmmm...blaming it on pagans? Are they referring to actual pagans (Druids, Kemetics and whatnot?) or just secular people and casual Christians, which make up a much larger portion of our population? What exactly has FotF discovered about Pagan practices to make them so suspicious? I think the real problem is society - the Christian majority seems to have faltered in this country, and although 80% of people here claim belief they have permitted these messages about mandatory sex to come through. Of course, no Christian radio show is going to broadcast that information.

It also says that pregnancy out of wedlock statistics have increased because pregnancy out of wedlock doesn't carry the "disgrace" it used to.

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I see nothing wrong with this. Does FotF believe it was better when "*******" children were ostrasized, teased and demeaned for something they couldn't help?

Great points, feral

All of this reeks of bad parenting and being unable to accept responsibility. Blaming a group of people is foolish and if I might say so (and I plan to), stupid.

Do kids need to stop hopping into bed with each other whenever they get a second of free time...it would be a good idea--cut down on teen pregnancy. But following a particular religion will not solve this problem; I know many a christian girl that "cannot say no".

In conclusion, it is my opinion that Focus on the Family should %*@& off. I think I handled that well...

Not to mention that studies suggest that teaching abstinence alone does not work. Teaching both protection and abstinence is the most effective way to stop teen pregnancy. And also contrary to popular belief teen sex and pregnancy has dropped in the last 10 or 14 years. Oddly enough the amount of christians in the US has dropped as well (at about 1% a year). So I doubt the pagans have anything to do with more people having sex.

pagan, of course has nothing to do with paganism at all. Its just a buzz word that is used to elicite an autonomic response by the target audience. Its not a bad way to control people and is often used by cults. Kind of like how the word communism was used during the red scare. It allows the writter to get the target audience on their side without requireing them to actually think about whats going on.
Mindless head nodding is always preferable to people who think and research for themselves, especially if you are known in the past for faking data.

bravo skellybones, bravo Just another way to teach kids to blame someone else for their own bad choices in life, and why not add a hint of prejudice to the blame and pass it onto those evil scary pagans

Blame is lame, dude, blame is lame

jengwei said:

I see nothing wrong with the article. It's simply statement of the Christian belief.

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I do not believe the article represents Christian belief at all. Most Christians I know are decent, good and honest people who do not attempt to shift blame to other religions or other people in general.

You people DO encourage promiscuity and orgies. It's called Westernism.

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Once again it would do you well to actaully try to gather some understanding of the religon of other people before making blatantly false assertions like this.



When you do this it limits anyone who knows the truth from accepting anything you say and does nothing but make you look foolish, narrow or at worst, dishonest.

Jester, you're doing me a favor here. You're talking about the pagan cultures in ancient Asia. Because of their paganism, it was accepted for these things to happen.

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Again if you would actually attempt to learn something about religions other than your own you would not end up looking so foolish need to work so hard in trying to cover up your lack of knowledge.

Arikay said:

I may be getting my religious extremist anti gay groups mixed up, but I believe Focus on the Family is the group that is run by an scientist who is no longer accepted as a scientist because he was caught faking data.

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Almost right.



You are thinking of the Family Research Council which was founded by Paul Cameron after he was expelled from the American Psychiatric Association and every other legitimate social science group for falsifying research on homosexuals and for misrepresenting the research of others. The Family Research Council was originally a subsidiary of Focus on the Family but some time in the last couple years they separated for reasons that are not entirely clear.

Ah, I knew it had some connection.

Volos said:

Almost right.



You are thinking of the Family Research Council which was founded by Paul Cameron after he was expelled from the American Psychiatric Association and every other legitimate social science group for falsifying research on homosexuals and for misrepresenting the research of others. The Family Research Council was originally a subsidiary of Focus on the Family but some time in the last couple years they separated for reasons that are not entirely clear.

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wow just another reason we should hate all those wiccans...geez first ya give us harry potter and lesbians and now this! geez

I find it sad that blame is being generalized upon a culture. Thats like saying all Arabs are terrorists or all minorities are uneducated or [insert your own analogy here].

I feel sad for such closed minded people. They are trying to preserve what they see as thier way of life but rather than take an honest look at the world around them and adapt to its changes, its easier to find a scape goat and lay all the blame upon them. I find it hard to believe however that such smart people are so oblivious to the facts of life for lack of a better term at the moment; and thus I can only believe that these people are knowingly making false claims in the hopes of spreading hatred and animosity. Don't we have enough hatred in the world today?

History has shown us that there will always be groups like this,... a century ago, we had people that fought against African Americans children going to the same schools as White children but the world has come a long way since then. So too will understanding and compasion erase todays hatreds.

i also find it sad that we are upset about birth control. i would much rather haev my child using a condom then have her pregnant at 14, with dropping out of school, and then working at walmart the rest of her life. and lets ignore the fact that condoms also orevent many STDs like AIDS..i mean i know the best birth control is absisnence only, but if you are gonna do it..why not do it and be safe?

and i guess i never understood why christians have a problem with birth control? its not terminating a fetus..its preventing one from being concieved...whats wrong with that?

I think the general reason against birthcontrol is that it prevents the natural order of things. Some groups are less strict and have approved and disaproved forms.

Then again, if you wanted to follow the "natural order" of things, teenage abstinence is going against nature as well.

katherinethegreat said:

i also find it sad that we are upset about birth control. i would much rather haev my child using a condom then have her pregnant at 14, with dropping out of school, and then working at walmart the rest of her life. and lets ignore the fact that condoms also orevent many STDs like AIDS..i mean i know the best birth control is absisnence only, but if you are gonna do it..why not do it and be safe?

and i guess i never understood why christians have a problem with birth control? its not terminating a fetus..its preventing one from being concieved...whats wrong with that?

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Is any one particular group of people to blame for the loss of morals in society? i mean, there are plentyof people who are considered unmoralistic that arent pagans. I alos think birth control is a good idea. i would rather have my kids using birth control than getting pregnant.

In an Iraqi prison, Americans who were Christians forced Muslim males to have oral sex with other Muslim males. That, and other horrible acts were done because it amused the Americans. Prisoners were tortured, including having wires attched to their genitals. A boy was sodomized, prisoners were forced to eat pork and drink alcohol, forced to denounce their own faith, and were told that these deeds were in the name of Christ. Where were the Wiccans, where were the Pagans? Of course, it is all THEIR fault. By all means hang the Pagans, shoot the Wiccans, and the world will be pure.
Don't worry, for 'they' will enjoy it! Sure they will! You can't kill everyone of them, so the others will have to get busy making 'replacements'. They do like their sex orgee's, so replace they will. What Christian thoughtfullness, we could make it a crusade!

I'm glad I'm not the only christian to find such a thing absurd

Why do so many people just accept this notion that there is so much more "immorality" now than in times past? I don't believe it for a minute. There is certainly more openess about sexuality. But in the long, historical perspective, people did virtually everything they do now, and to my knowledge, in nearly the same numbers. The author of that article needs to read "The Way We Never Were," by Professor Stephanie Koontz, of Evergreen State University (Basic Books, 1993.) She extensively researched records on birth patterns, family organization, etc going back to colonial days. The current out of wedlock birthrate hovers around 40% (and is dropping, as was pointed out.) In Puritan New England (no secularism, there) the illegitemacy rate was 33%. She has good data showing that the illegitemacy rate has fluctuated between 30 and 40 per cent for our entire history. Yes, STDs are a problem. But syphilis was estimated to affect fully 10% of the US population in 1900, and countless more had gonorrhea. A far higher incidence in the population that HIV/AIDS or chlamidia. (Syphilis was so common, that's why they used to require premarital blood tests in many states.) Pornography may have been kept under the counter, but prostitution was ubiquitous in most cities. It was reported that during the late 1800's, there was a brothel on virtually every street corner in Washington, DC. People have this nostalgic attitude about the past, but if you really look at the long perspective, I don't think there is a shred of credible evidence that we were so much more "moral" years ago. Mainly, it's more out in the open now. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.