Black Americans: Most Religious Ethnic Group

[setst777]

The only reason that's the case in our country, is because that's the particular race that was artificially put in that situation of poverty within the last 5 generations.

That is a defeatist attitude - playing the victim. Every person born into this world has an opportunity to make a better life for themselves.

For instance, as a drastic example, the Jews were persecuted in almost every nation in cycles since the BC era and into the 1st and 2nd World Wars and years afterwards. Millions of Jews were killed, put into camps, the women raped, all their valuables and livelihoods destroyed, and they were forced to live in slums, and treated as 2nd class citizens, if even that. Despite all they endured over and over - repeatedly - in their long history, each time they quickly recovered. I don't see them playing the poor victim card - as if they are now helpless to change because their great, great grandma was a victim.

I do not see any other ethnicity playing the victim card as do the Black Americans.

If you go to a country where it's majority white, the poorer neighborhoods still have higher crime rates.

Or look at any largely ethno-homogenous country, the same will be true (like in many of the Asian countries)

The poor neighborhoods in Ireland and England are predominately white, and have higher crime rates than the more well-off neighborhoods.

I have no statistics or information as to what the underlying circumstances were in those other countries, how it happened, or what you are saying is actually the case, so I cannot comment.

All I know is that the US Government has really stepped in to help those who are disadvantaged. But some people, no matter how much you help them, they will always play the victim.

As far as the "too many programs" goes... it's quality, not quantity.

A program that gives a single mother with 3 kids (working minimum wage) a small stipend every month isn't likely to change the trajectory of things.

Your response shows ungratefulness for all the help being provided by the Government - Federal, State, and Local.

Firstly, the Government doesn't have to support anyone.

Secondly, you are focusing on one or two programs. You are forgetting that many of these programs work together to help Black Americans - especially single mothers with children, since most Black Families are single parent homes with children.

For instance:

HUD Housing Choice Voucher Program - Section 8 at a very low rent,
free child care and day care,
SNAP Benefits making food purchases free,
Free medical and dental for the children and mothers,
Direct payments to needy families,
Free counseling and mental health care.

These are not cheap programs. They are very high quality and cost billions of dollars. Welfare is helping millions of people in the USA.

Some people, no matter how much you help them, they will always bite the hand the feeds them, taking advantage, and then ridiculing, all the help the government provides to them. Always playing the victim.

They claim all that is being done for them is never enough. Yet, the more you give them, the more dependent they become, rather than trying to improve themselves. We don't find this defeatist victim culture in any other ethnicity like we do with Black Americans. Thankfully, not all Black Americans are falling for this defeatist agenda and have moved on to make a better life.

That's not to say that certain cultural aspects can't play a role... like with regards to certain aspects religious culture, there are certainly religions that foster an environment for more problematic behavior. (nobody lays awake at night worried about a terrorist attack from the Amish or Buddhists)

I know for a fact that anyone who repents and puts their faith in Lord Jesus will live a new life, and will shed that victim defeatist agenda for a better life.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Secondly, you are focusing on one or two programs. You are forgetting that many of these programs work together to help Black Americans

They are designed to help poor Americans. Since black Americans are more likely to be poor than white Americans, black people are disproportionately qualified to be beneficiaries of these programs. However, more white people in total obtain these benefits than black people.

For instance:
SNAP Benefits

 

[setst777]

They are designed to help poor Americans. Since black Americans are more likely to be poor than white Americans, black people are disproportionately qualified to be beneficiaries of these programs. However, more white people in total obtain these benefits than black people.

For instance:
SNAP Benefits

Your statistics are just for SNAP benefits. Even so, with Black Americans only making up about 14% of the US population, that really is an astronomical share of SNAP going to Black Americans. Yet, many are ungrateful.

As well, I do not deny that mostly Black Americans are still disadvantage, although making up only 14% of the US population. The best way, the KEY way, that I can see to help these people recover and live successful lives is, besides what is already being done:

1) Stop continually brainwashing them with a defeatist agenda - that they are helpless victims no matter how much we help them.
2) Faith in Lord Jesus is powerful to change any life around for good.

 

[RDKirk]

Why are those neighborhoods unpleasant?

Don't give me your intellectual theories. I have worked in the inner city for years. I attended a College for 2 years that was located right next to a predominantly Black community. I can tell you that this was not a pleasant experience, and was dangerous. I could write a book on what I have witnessed, including the robbing of my property, and myself at gun point, and even being beaten once and pistil whipped once, just to get my wallet. Why is it that, in Black communities, business windows are barred, and plexiglass windows installed at gas station windows. I have talked with Black neighbors who said that they were afraid to live in their own communities.

Because we have a broken, dysfunctional culture, the entrails of white American culture...what I call "chit'lin' culture." It's the culture we were given as slaves to replace our native African cultures, but we could enjoy only part of white American culture, not its full measure.

Chit'lin' culture always been dysfunctional because it was never intended to be functional and self-affirming for black people, but rather intended to keep us easy to exploit. Over the last 60 years I've been in it, it's growing worse at an exponential rate.

 

[setst777]

Because we have a broken, dysfunctional culture, the entrails of white American culture...what I call "chit'lin' culture." It's the culture we were given as slaves to replace our native African cultures, but we could enjoy only part of white American culture, not its full measure.

Chit'lin' culture always been dysfunctional because it was never intended to be functional and self-affirming for black people, but rather intended to keep us easy to exploit. Over the last 60 years I've been in it, it's growing worse at an exponential rate.

You can call it white American culture, but its the most successful culture. Black Americans have no problem at all being successful in the USA if they want to.

Nothing is holding them back but themselves and the defeatist racist agenda being crammed down their throats.

But for those Black Americans who do not buy into the defeatist lie, they readily make a better life for themselves and their families.

I was employed as a food warehouse worker for many years, and people of all ethnicities worked there. At lest half of the managers were of minorities. I did not feel that I was any more or less treated differently from any of my associate workers. We all succeeded or failed based on our performance.

 

[RDKirk]

You can call it white American culture, but its the most successful culture. Black Americans have no problem at all being successful in the USA if they want to.

Certainly white American culture has been functional and successful. It works as long as a person is able to fully participate in it. That was not possible even by law for black Americans until the the 80s.

Of course, as I say over and over, "There's always more than one thing going on in every situation," so even as black Americans became more able to participate in white American culture over the last 50 years, white American culture itself became less functional.

Yet, for black Americans, it's the only culture that is practicably available to us. We're not going to all become Kenyans or Nigerians or even Nation of Islam. Becoming more "white American," so to speak, is the most practicable option.

My daughter reminded me this past weekend that in the current American culture battle, conservative white America in its search for allies has reached out to black Americans because we have had similar conservative white American values (because that's all we've had to work with since the ships brought us here). So there is more opportunity--paradoxically and ironically--to actually blend in with white America than there ever has been before (as one black comedian has said, "We've got the best white people today that we've ever had"). I personally think that won't happen until us Boomers are dead, but it's possible.

For sure, IMO, the crippled chit'lin' culture we've been working with up until now will continue its downward spiral, succumbing to the culture war more quickly than the white side of it.

 

[setst777]

Certainly white American culture has been functional and successful. It works as long as a person is able to fully participate in it. That was not possible even by law for black Americans until the the 80s.

Of course, as I say over and over, "There's always more than one thing going on in every situation," so even as black Americans became more able to participate in white American culture over the last 50 years, white American culture itself became less functional.

Yet, for black Americans, it's the only culture that is practicably available to us. We're not going to all become Kenyans or Nigerians or even Nation of Islam. Becoming more "white American," so to speak, is the most practicable option.

My daughter reminded me this past weekend that in the current American culture battle, conservative white America in its search for allies has reached out to black Americans because we have had similar conservative white American values (because that's all we've had to work with since the ships brought us here). So there is more opportunity--paradoxically and ironically--to actually blend in with white America than there ever has been before (as one black comedian has said, "We've got the best white people today that we've ever had"). I personally think that won't happen until us Boomers are dead, but it's possible.

For sure, IMO, the crippled chit'lin' culture we've been working with up until now will continue its downward spiral, succumbing to the culture war more quickly than the white side of it.

Good insight.

Not sure what you mean by "white American culture itself became less functional." However, whether white American culture is less functional or not, there has never been a more opportune time for Black Americans to prosper in the USA if they want to.

The USA is on their side, providing everything possible for Black Americans to succeed. All they have to do is lay aside the defeatist racist ranting of those Black Americans who want to keep their own people living defeated lives. These defeatists want to attack those who are trying to help their own kind.

I say to Black Americans, listen to those who have proven to really care by giving you every opportunity to succeed in living a good life.

As well, God shows no partiality and will save all those who call upon Him in faith demonstrated by repentance and turning to Lord Jesus as the one whom they commit to follow into a holy life of righteousness and love. That is the true purpose for living and true meaning to life.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That is a defeatist attitude - playing the victim. Every person born into this world has an opportunity to make a better life for themselves.

For instance, as a drastic example, the Jews were persecuted in almost every nation in cycles since the BC era and into the 1st and 2nd World Wars and years afterwards. Millions of Jews were killed, put into camps, the women raped, all their valuables and livelihoods destroyed, and they were forced to live in slums, and treated as 2nd class citizens, if even that. Despite all they endured over and over - repeatedly - in their long history, each time they quickly recovered. I don't see them playing the poor victim card - as if they are now helpless to change because their great, great grandma was a victim.

I do not see any other ethnicity playing the victim card as do the Black Americans.

There's a difference between "playing the victim" and actually being a victim.

For instance, a person claiming "I'm so oppressed" because another person disapproves of their lifestyle is playing the victim...

A person who gets physically beat up by the other person because they disapproved of their lifestyle is an actual victim.


I've heard the Jewish comparison before, and while they certainly have a longer (and in many ways, more brutal) experience with bigotry than the Black community, there's a definite distinction with regards to how society corrected for it...and enforced a pretty sharp "zero-tolerance" policy toward it almost immediately after hitler was taken out.

For instance, it's illegal in Germany to fly the flag of the entity that was slaughtering them and mistreating them, and every child in school is required to learn the evil history behind it (with no sugar coating)

In the US, the confederacy lost, slavery was abolished, yet, there was another long stretch of time after that where there were definitive systemic effort (by people sucking sour grapes because they lost) to keep the bigotry going.

Had we treated former confederate leaders (after they lost) the same way the international community treated former Third Reich leaders after they lost, it may have been a different story.

We still had confederate leaders going to on to hold elected and appointed offices in the USA after the confederacy was defeated.

Here in the US, we still have some yahoos (even in the North, for some reason...still can't figure out people in rural Ohio decide to do so) proudly slapping confederate flags on their vehicles, and the very premise that it needs to be taught with no sugar coating is pushed back against (enthusiastically by many)

They claim all that is being done for them is never enough. Yet, the more you give them, the more dependent they become, rather than trying to improve themselves. We don't find this defeatist victim culture in any other ethnicity like we do with Black Americans. Thankfully, not all Black Americans are falling for this defeatist agenda and have moved on to make a better life.

I'm not arguing against the notion that too much cash-in-hand government aid can foster a culture of dependency. Even Obama acknowledged as much...

What I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to keep people relegated to inferiority status for hundreds of years, and then put the onus on them when they're not flourishing within a decade or two after that long stretch of oppression is over.

 

[setst777]

In the US, the confederacy lost, slavery was abolished, yet, there was another long stretch of time after that where there were definitive systemic effort (by people sucking sour grapes because they lost) to keep the bigotry going.

Yes, there will always be people like that who do not know how to move on no matter what ethnicity or status in life. They live in the past, and so allow bitterness of past experiences to color their actions in the present.

Even so, you cannot use the bitterness of some, as if that was a nationwide phenomenon preventing Black Americans from pursuing a good life. The bitterness of some should not be generalized to infer that all people in the USA, even soon after slavery was abolished, continually promoted racism against Black Americans.

There have always been white, and other ethnicities, in the USA who have reached out to Black Americans, providing jobs and assistance. Black Americans have continually made a good life for themselves, even shorty after slavery was abolished. Yes, types of jobs were limited in the past to more physical work, but they paid pretty well in many cases, enough to make a good living.

I have lived a fairly long life now, being 63 years old, and served the military for 12 years, lived and worked in different parts of the Country, different neighborhoods, different jobs, including that food warehouse since 1982, and also was a correctional officer for 10 years.

In all my experiences, I had quite a bit of contact with people of all ethnicities. I have rarely seen outright racism against blacks - not in the military, nor at any job I ever had, nor in everyday life.

The times I did see such racism, I have seen white kids in the inner city several times who picked on some Black kids, and one time where white inner city kids beat up on a black guy walking on the white side of the neighborhood – a neighborhood which had a clear dividing line between blacks and whites. I felt very bad about that.

However, I have also seen, and personally experienced, violence by Black people from muggings, gangs, even at gun point. I have seen Black people, outside my window at night cutting license plates off of people’s cars (one person would cut license plates while the other kept a lookout). I could give you many more such examples, and I have seen this among the predominantly Black population.

I have seen black people smashing car windshields, and checking to see if car doors were unlocked. I overheard one Black guy talking on his cell phone on the street while looking at my car, talking about taking my car, but said that it was not worth it as the car was an older and not a sought after model. I was relieved to hear that and continued on my way.

When I consider these memories, including the military, and all my experiences, and considering the crime statistics, my impression is that, despite some outright racism on both sides, Black Americans, even as early as the 1970’s, were not treated as badly as some Black Americans paint it out to be on a nationwide scale.

And I would say that, at times, when we see discrimination against Black people, we see that this mainly has to do with mistrust, because Black Americans did not, and do not, have a very good track record for trustworthiness on average, although I feel things are improving some. The statistics show this to be the case, and I have personally experience violence by Black Americans, so this is not an unjustified prejudice attitude on my part. I am sorry for having to say this, but I am being realistic.

And you can’t blame moral character on how your great grandparents were treated. I am certain that, in most cases, your grandparent would have wanted and expected better from you. Moral character is a personal issue that each of us is responsible for, as I am sure you know full well. We can't blame our moral character on anyone but ourselves.

Here in the US, we still have some yahoos (even in the North, for some reason...still can't figure out people in rural Ohio decide to do so) proudly slapping confederate flags on their vehicles, and the very premise that it needs to be taught with no sugar coating is pushed back against (enthusiastically by many)

What are you saying? Are you saying that, because some yahoos slap confederate flags on their vehicles that this means Black Americans are justified in, or helpless to, living defeated lives? ...

“Oh man, look at that confederate flag on that vehicle! Well that does it, now I know I can’t succeed; where is that welfare office again!? Better yet, let's cut catalytic converters off of cars and sell at the nearest junkyard - easy money!... Wait, why not just rob the nearest guy who is dressed nice and take his wallet. If he resists, beat the sh-t out of him! Won't that make a fun and profitable night?” "Steal from the rich and give to the poor - hey that's me!"

All these scenarios are founded on real events that are common everywhere, and statistics, which I have provided on this site, show to be the case.

I'm not arguing against the notion that too much cash-in-hand government aid can foster a culture of dependency. Even Obama acknowledged as much...

What I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to keep people relegated to inferiority status for hundreds of years, and then put the onus on them when they're not flourishing within a decade or two after that long stretch of oppression is over.

I am not putting the onus on the average Black American, but rather, I blame those Black Americans who are promoting propaganda meant to turn Black Americans against America, and keep them living defeated lives. And this propaganda has been too effective, but it is a completely false and defeatist myth.

You are a computer IT guy. Not sure if you are a Black American, but you were not prevented from making a decent life for yourself, if you are Black American, in the USA.

For more than 50 years, discrimination against Black Americans has largely been dealt with in most ways, and many opportunities to succeed were established, focused primarily on helping Black Americans succeed.

Therefore, I see no reason for Black Americans to feel they have to continue living defeated lives, when encouragement, help, and opportunity are all readily available for them to succeed.

We can’t let past bitterness over what happened 50 or so years ago to prevent us from living happy and successful lives now. That is what Black Americans should be telling each other if they really cared about each other's happiness and success.

What I see that is preventing Black Americans from succeeding are those other Black Americans continually feeding propaganda to their own kind that:

• Racist government is preventing you from succeeding.
• You are a victim, unable to change, because of past racism that occurred over 50 years ago.
• US Government is not giving enough to help Black Americans succeed.
• The US is racist, and so, the Black American can never succeed.

All these arguments are myths promoted by some Black Americans to instill in, and to ensure that, Black American continue to live defeated lives in a country that, in reality, is providing Black Americans every opportunity possible to succeed and make a good life for themselves.

And if there are Black Americans who are having difficulty overcoming past habits of thought, and desire to start over, Lord Jesus calls out to such people, graciously giving a new life to all who call out to Him in faith demonstrated in repentance - a commitment to turn away from the old life of defeatism, and now commit to a new life of holiness before God in a life of righteousness and love. This is true purpose and meaning for living.

Blessings

 

[iluvatar5150]

You can call it white American culture, but its the most successful culture. Black Americans have no problem at all being successful in the USA if they want to.

Nothing is holding them back but themselves and the defeatist racist agenda being crammed down their throats.

But for those Black Americans who do not buy into the defeatist lie, they readily make a better life for themselves and their families.

I was employed as a food warehouse worker for many years, and people of all ethnicities worked there. At lest half of the managers were of minorities. I did not feel that I was any more or less treated differently from any of my associate workers. We all succeeded or failed based on our performance.

Aside from their ability to develop military leaders, Appalachian white culture has never been successful in the ways in which you’re referring. It’s still poor, unhealthy, and uneducated. Many other segments of white American culture were only successful because they stole labor from enslaved blacks - white southerners (esp antebellum) were famously averse to hard work. Mississippi’s articles of secession even include a passage about how the state’s tropical climate is so harsh that only black workers can withstand it:
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession

Either way, how is this thread still open? Your entire premise is that because of their high incarceration rates, black americans must be bad Christians.

 

[setst777]

Aside from their ability to develop military leaders, Appalachian white culture has never been successful in the ways in which you’re referring. It’s still poor, unhealthy, and uneducated. Many other segments of white American culture were only successful because they stole labor from enslaved blacks - white southerners (esp antebellum) were famously averse to hard work. Mississippi’s articles of secession even include a passage about how the state’s tropical climate is so harsh that only black workers can withstand it:
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession

Either way, how is this thread still open? Your entire premise is that because of their high incarceration rates, black americans must be bad Christians.

This thread is still open, not because of me, but because others keep asking me questions or responding to my posts. For instance, you are now responding to my post.

If the Black Americans want to give me a platform to answer messages, so I can proclaim reality to them, then I will take that platform and use it to help them.

The Appalachian area has been poor for a long time, and that area is mostly white. Nearly one-third of young adults ages 18 to 24 were in poverty in rural Appalachia in 2014-2018.

The average unemployment rate:

• The Appalachian average is 4.8%.
• The U.S. average is 4.4%.
• The Black American reported unemployment rate in 2019 was 5.4%. In 2020, the rate was over 11%, mostly due to the Coronovirus situation.

So, its not like the Appalachians are sitting around doing nothing, as most of them do work for a living. There is nothing wrong with being poor.

The white people choose to live there, not because they feel deprived, or unable to succeed, but because they like their life, and the crime rate is extremely low there. There is nothing wrong with being poor. The Appalachian area is a community that lives as if they are in their own little country far removed from most of civilization.

The poverty rate in Appalachia (15.2%) is less than 2% higher than the national poverty rate at 13.4%, so its not like the whole of Appalachia lives in poverty.
About the Appalachian Region - Appalachian Regional Commission

Compare the Appalachia rate of 15.2% with that of the national average rate of poverty for native born Black Americans at: 25.1%
Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia

What is wrong is when those who are poor blame others for all their problems, and then heartlessly take out their bitterness by committing violent acts against others just to feed their own passions.

Unlike the Black American poor, the crime rate among the Appalachian poor is far less than even the national average.

"There's a great deal of drug use, welfare fraud, and the like, but the overall crime rate throughout Appalachia is about two thirds the national average, and the rate of violent crime is half the national average."
https://theweek.com/articles/452321/appalachia-big-white-ghetto

And crime among Black Americans is astronomically higher in comparison to white communities:

Black overall in 2020: 125 violent crimes per 100k residents
White overall in 2020: 28 violent crimes per 100k residents.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/public-safety/crime-rate-coronavirus/

So Appalachia is a very safe place to live. Why leave an area you feel safe in?

Even regarding murder rates:

You are 968 times more likely to be murdered in the US at large than on the Appalachian Trail.
Examining the Real Numbers Behind Violent Instances on the Appalachian Trail - The Trek

Now consider that Black Americans make up only 14% of the US population, but over half the homicides in the entire USA in the past 10 years were committed by Black Americans
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

As well, Appalachian families frequently have two parents and low abortion rates, unlike Black American families, of which over 61% are single parent homes with children. I ask myself, why is that the case?

So, although the Appalachian area is poor, this is a far safer area to live than most of the USA and is a community.

So being poor is not necessarily the cause of crime; rather, its the kind of people who are poor. And the kind of people who are poor, among Black Americans, are being brainwashed by their own kind into believing American is the enemy racist, and the Black American is a continual victim, unable to succeed.

What I see that is preventing Black Americans from succeeding are those other Black Americans continually feeding propaganda to their own kind that:

• Racist government is preventing you from succeeding.
• You are a victim, unable to change, because of past racism that occurred over 50 years ago.
• US Government is not giving enough to help Black Americans succeed.
• The US is racist, and so, the Black American can never succeed.

All these arguments are myths promoted by some Black Americans to instill in, and to ensure that, Black American continue to live defeated lives in a country that, in reality, is providing Black Americans every opportunity possible to succeed and make a good life for themselves.

 

[Strathos]

No one is barricading and preventing Black Americans, or any other ethnicity, from leaving any area they feel is not safe, and to move somewhere else.

Easier said than done. Their families and friends live there, their jobs are there, the housing they can afford is there, etc. Socioeconomically disadvantaged people can't just move at will. If you want to move to a nicer place, you will need to pay more to live there.

And the entire point was that the government specifically chose that neighborhood to place those undesirable facilities in, because it was a mostly minority neighborhood and didn't have the political and financial clout to resist it.

 

[setst777]

Easier said than done. Their families and friends live there, their jobs are there, the housing they can afford is there, etc. Socioeconomically disadvantaged people can't just move at will. If you want to move to a nicer place, you will need to pay more to live there.

And the entire point was that the government specifically chose that neighborhood to place those undesirable facilities in, because it was a mostly minority neighborhood and didn't have the political and financial clout to resist it.

It really is that easy. If you don't like where you live, move. It is not like you are moving to another country, or even another state, or even another city or town.

I have family too. A good part of my earlier life in my late teens to 20's, I was poor, but I had my independence, and was happy.

I never thought to look for government assistance, or rob others. I had no problem moving, or choosing where I wanted to live.

I had to really watch my money, but I got use to it. I had a fun life, and many friends and good memories.

Some people are so bent on portraying Black Americans as misfits, unable to do anything for themselves. And that government is there to keep Black Americans down. I do not buy that line of defeatist propaganda for one moment.

I have seen too many Black Americans make good lives for themselves. I know they are not misfits. I know they can do anything when they put their minds to it.

But, like I said, we have people, like yourself, feeding these poor Black Americans a lie. You want to invent any excuse you can to show why Black Americans must remain defeated and unable work, move, eat, or do anything for themselves.

What I see that is preventing Black Americans from succeeding are those other Black Americans continually feeding propaganda to their own kind that:

• Racist government is preventing you from succeeding.
• You are a victim, unable to change, because of past racism that occurred over 50 years ago.
• US Government is not giving enough to help Black Americans succeed.
• The US is racist, and so, the Black American can never succeed.

All these arguments are myths promoted by some Black Americans to instill in, and to ensure that, Black American continue to live defeated lives in a country that, in reality, is providing Black Americans every opportunity possible to succeed and make a good life for themselves.

 

[Strathos]

It really is that easy.

No, it isn't. If it was, they would have done it already. Instead of just acting like you know the situations of poor people, why not actually listen to them?

Social Mobility and Poverty | Introduction to Sociology

Why do people stay in the ghetto when they can move elsewhere? If you don't have a kid, you can get a bedroom somewhere, get a job and then an apartment.If you have a kid, you can do the same thing, but it's a little more difficult. - Quora

Here is the huge misunderstanding that so many people have in regard to poor people.

Poor people don't save money because they don't have any money to save after their bills are accounted for.

Poor people can't move out of the ghetto because it takes a significant amount of money to relocate. They already spent all of their money on other bills. They cannot save any money to move.

They can't just go and get a different job. To do that would mean taking time to search for a job. Much of their time is already used up somehow.

Poor people spend more money buying the same things that wealthy people buy. I am absolutely serious here.

Let's say you buy a car, how do you do that? You go to the bank and get a loan preapproved and then you go down to the car lot and choose your car. They try to get you to choose something outside your price range but you hold to what you can afford. You pay for the car with the loan from your bank with a reasonable interest rate.

The poor person goes to the car lot and gets turned down as soon as they check his credit. He just wasted an entire day at a car lot with an aggressive salesman. So next weekend he goes to the place that swears they will finance anyone. He gets conned into buying the same car you bought, but he gets an enormous interest rate and after five years (if he makes it that long without getting it repossessed) he will have paid three times the money you paid.

When you need toilet paper or soap or toothpaste or dishwasher detergent, you might go to Costco and buy it in bulk. The poor person can't afford to spend $15 on toilet paper, that would cut into the electricity bill this month. So he buys it at Walmart for $3. Never mind the fact that you got 36 rolls and he got 4, he had zero at home and needed it now. He has to go with what he can get.

At the store you might use your debit card, the poor guy has no bank account because he is poor. He has no debit card. Try to go all cash for a couple months to see what it's like. You will notice that some things just aren't the same. Your paycheck now costs you money just to get your money. Some places won't accept cash payments. They will not allow you to use cash to pay bills that if you don't pay they will charge you late fees on. So you have to pay for a money order and stamps to mail it to them because you can't do a money transfer from your account.

Most poor people have children who they are responsible for. They can't afford daycare without a job. But with the job they lose their welfare check. They end up getting less money with a job and daycare payments than if they had no job. And never mind the fact that the daycare won't accept their kids if they haven't held a job continuously for a while already.

So the guy who just doesn't want to work yet can who has no children or other bills can probably do something for himself. But wait, maybe he can't either. He isn't getting welfare. He gets nothing in the way of government support. He might be getting EBT food but that's it. He can't even afford to ride the bus to an area where he can apply for a job. You might ask why he doesn't work from home. How would he do that without a computer?

There are so many misunderstandings in this question's details that I am completely dumbfounded that it is even asked. The fact that people think that the poor want to be poor makes me speechless. The fact that people think the poor have cash sitting in mayonnaise jars stashed away for whatever is laughable. I know that wealthy and middle class people can grasp the concept of not having the money to cover your bills and also no possible way to get that money. But they never do seem to figure it out.

Living in a poor neighborhood changes everything about your life

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/geographic-mobility-and-housing/542439/

Unless you have actually lived in these kinds of conditions, you can't say it's easy. Because it's really not.

 

[Pommer]

No, it isn't. If it was, they would have done it already. Instead of just acting like you know the situations of poor people, why not actually listen to them?

Social Mobility and Poverty | Introduction to Sociology

Why do people stay in the ghetto when they can move elsewhere? If you don't have a kid, you can get a bedroom somewhere, get a job and then an apartment.If you have a kid, you can do the same thing, but it's a little more difficult. - Quora



Living in a poor neighborhood changes everything about your life

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/geographic-mobility-and-housing/542439/

Unless you have actually lived in these kinds of conditions, you can't say it's easy. Because it's really not.

The entire thread reminds me of this.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The entire thread reminds me of this.

If you really want to emasculate somebody's argument (in a way that's admittedly tough to do in an anonymous internet forum), go through all the ways in which they haven't improved their life very much over the last few/several decades and/or how they haven't done significantly better than their parents. Then flip it around and ask why, if their family is only capable of making incremental improvements every decade or so, they expect that black families should be improving their lot so much more quickly.

 

[Hans Blaster]

What I find troubling or perplexing about these figures about the faith of Black Americans is statistical data involving crime in the USA.

By far, the proportion of crime and violent acts in the USA are committed by black people, with Hispanics being second.
Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

In addition, black people make up only a minority of the entire US population (13.4%), making the crime rate, by population, extremely high.
Race and ethnicity in the United States - Wikipedia

Despite making up only 13.4% of the US population, the percent incarceration is is extremely high Black Americans by proportion of population.
BOP Statistics: Inmate Race

Therefore, I question the authenticity of the faith expressed in the figures.

Therefore, for many Black people, and Hispanics, I do not see this "faith" translating in to a New Life in Christ Jesus. This is unfortunate, showing us that much work needs to be done in promoting accurate and authentic evangelism to all ethnic populations.

I think I see the flaw in your reasoning...

What if religion, including Christianity, doesn't make you less likely to commit crimes?

Clearly your data does not show "more Christian = less criminal". (I leave the other flaws in this data to the previous 150 posts of discussion.)

 

[Pommer]

Then flip it around and ask why, if their family is only capable of making incremental improvements every decade or so, they expect that black families should be improving their lot so much more quickly.

The “out” there, though, is the “cold water boils faster” fallacy, “They were at the bottom, there was nowhere to go but up!”

Then the pivot will be “But that was in the ‘bad-olden-days’ when people were REAL racists, not like now; ‘they’ got it good!”

And then wonder why Black folks are still angry.

 

[setst777]

No, it isn't. If it was, they would have done it already. Instead of just acting like you know the situations of poor people, why not actually listen to them?

Social Mobility and Poverty | Introduction to Sociology

Why do people stay in the ghetto when they can move elsewhere? If you don't have a kid, you can get a bedroom somewhere, get a job and then an apartment.If you have a kid, you can do the same thing, but it's a little more difficult. - Quora

Living in a poor neighborhood changes everything about your life

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/geographic-mobility-and-housing/542439/

Unless you have actually lived in these kinds of conditions, you can't say it's easy. Because it's really not.

Everything good in life requires effort. That holds true for any ethnicity.

I have been poor, and had no trouble moving. Yes, it took effort to move, and I had to work two jobs for several months, so I could save some money over a period of time to pay the first month's rent and security deposit, but no one prevented me from moving.

I don't care what ethnicity you are, moving is easy to do in this country, but it does take effort on each person's part to bring one's plans to reality.

In addition, Black Americans have learned well how to use government programs. They know what HUD housing vouchers are, and they know what Government subsidized housing is. Especially single mothers with children, they can be poor and move into subsidized housing of their choice anywhere in the state.

Anything good in life requires effort.

I use to have 27 properties in the inner city - predominantly Black American neighborhood. When I had to evict tenants for not paying their rent for months, I had to clean out their apartments.

Almost without fail, what I find most often in these apartments are tons of designer clothes, all dirty and piled up in each room. It is apparent that, when clothes get dirty, they don't take the time to wash them, because it's too much work. So, they go to the store and keep buying new clothes to wear. This is how poor people in the inner city treat the government money they obtain.

So, its not about being too poor to save money, but rather, a total unwillingness to put in the effort to improve one's life.

 

[setst777]

I think I see the flaw in your reasoning...

What if religion, including Christianity, doesn't make you less likely to commit crimes?

Clearly your data does not show "more Christian = less criminal". (I leave the other flaws in this data to the previous 150 posts of discussion.)

A true Christian has repented and put his/her faith in Lord Jesus. These are the people who receive a new life by Lord Jesus. Many may claim to be Christian, but have not repented toward God, and put their faith in Lord Jesus.

A true faith produces a new life - Guaranteed!