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Wrong Lamad, the first Seal horseman is told to ride forth to conquer....the second was told to take away peace from the earth....the third has to do with worldwide economic problems.....the fourth has the power to kill a quarter of the earth.
In no way are these 4 restricted to only 1/4 of the earth. Proved by Zechariah 1:8-11, Zechariah 6:1-8....sent out to range over the whole earth.
Re who are the 144,000; As all the records of tribal lineage were burned in 70 AD, only God knows who belongs to which tribe. Amos 9:9 But as we know, true Israelites are now people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Ephesians 2:11-18 So when all the true Christian believers are gathered in the holy Land, Revelation 7:9, the Lord will designate everyone to one of the 12 tribes, according to their personal characteristics. There are lists of these tribal differences, gleaned from how they were in ancient times.
The Lord will stand on Mount Zion, Revelation 14:1, and select 12,000 young people from each tribe and send them out in pairs, Luke 10:1-10, to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19
This is perfectly correct and Biblical. Only those with the false rapture agenda oppose it.
The Lord will reduce His restraint against Satan to allow for his man of lawlessness
This action has nothing to do with His pre-tribulation call for His true ecclesia
2 Thessalonians
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia
ἀποστασία
Transliteration
apostasia
Pronunciation
ä-po-stä-sē'-ä ἀποστάσιον(G647)
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
However, this scripture does tell of the gathering [His call]
2 Thessalonians
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him
Arch from Temple of Ba'al to Stand in New York
Read more at http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/7...ch-temple-baal-stand-nyc/#OdtSUAkjdMWqCyJG.99
Re who are the 144,000; As all the records of tribal lineage were burned in 70 AD, only God knows who belongs to which tribe. Amos 9:9 But as we know, true Israelites are now people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Ephesians 2:11-18 So when all the true Christian believers are gathered in the holy Land, Revelation 7:9, the Lord will designate everyone to one of the 12 tribes, according to their personal characteristics. There are lists of these tribal differences, gleaned from how they were in ancient times.
The Lord will stand on Mount Zion, Revelation 14:1, and select 12,000 young people from each tribe and send them out in pairs, Luke 10:1-10, to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19
God's Word says the 4 horsemen range over all the earth. Zechariah 6:7You are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with God. Is that wise?
[Staff edit]The part about Christians gathered in Israel is MYTH. The part of the CHURCH that is ready will be caught up with Jesus and taken to heaven. This is the TRUE rapture agenda.
They are selected from out of the 'vast multitude' of people of Christians from every nation and language, by then gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal devastation has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:18So Keras, how are 144,000 guys suppose to repopulate the earth in the millennium without females if there's no rapture and the only ones living with Christ will be a small number of men?
You are probably correct.Just wait another 18 months and I don't think anyone in this forum is going to be arguing the Apocalypse hasn't begun yet.
They are selected from out of the 'vast multitude' of people of Christians from every nation and language, by then gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal devastation has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:18
I suppose you think Revelation 7:9 is totally separate from Revelation 7:1-8? It isn't and only your preconceived beliefs make you think that. Ezekiel 1:1 and Acts 7:56, prove that the Throne of God can be seen from the earth, if God allows it.Oh I gotcha. Their sex is not the problem, it's their ethnicity. So the 144,000 men of many different background can repopulate the earth.
I suppose you think Revelation 7:9 is totally divorced from Revelation 7:1-8?
Where do you get the idea that the earth will be depopulated?
In the last days, all of God's people, true Christians, will live in the holy Land. Psalms 69:36, Jeremiah 23:3-4, Isaiah 57:13b The rest of the nations will establish a One World Govt.
Isaiah 24:6 That is why a curse consumes the earth and its inhabitants suffer punishment by fire and only a few are left. REBTherefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants suffer for their guilt; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are scorched, and few men are left.
No such thing as a divorce between two men found in the bible. You're treading in unbiblical nonsense. No way can 144,000 men alone repopulate the earth.
No such thing as a divorce between two men found in the bible. You're treading in unbiblical nonsense. No way can 144,000 men alone repopulate the earth.
Oh sorry, I think I didn't deal with the repopulation issue. The 144k will be resurrected and/or given immortal bodies at the return of Jesus, which means the issue of repopulating won't be applicable to them.
I believe there will be mortal people still alive on the earth after the battle of Armageddon (and all the previous vials). It is these remaining people who will start to repopulate the earth, and these people over which we will rule for 1000 years.
Where do you get the idea that the earth will be depopulated?
Isaiah 24:6 That is why a curse consumes the earth and its inhabitants suffer punishment by fire and only a few are left. REB
Get a better translation and you might not come to silly conclusions.
I have changed the word 'divorced' to 'separate' in # 335, so to clarify another of your mistaken conclusions.
I have changed the word 'divorced' to 'separate' in # 335, so to clarify another of your mistaken conclusions.
You didn't post one single verse to support your belief. It's just a matter of opinion.....[staff edit]
You can't rule or reign with Christ during the millennium without given authority to do so. The authority is granted at the Bema Seat, which is in heaven. Try getting to heaven first. Pretty much impossible to do for post-tribbers when you have to do a U-turn in mid air.
Of course, I DID reference the Bible in plenty of places, but because I didn't put a book title and number next to the references you somehow don't see them as being relevant.
I believe the 144k will also include women, too, in the same way that references like, "except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of Heaven" also includes women, even though he specifically says, "man". For me, the single most important part of the description of the 144k is that they "follow the lamb where ever he goes".
I believe the reason why they receive special protection during the tribulation (at least for parts of it) is because they've already learned to discipline themselves (at least in some areas) in a way in which the rest of the world has not and therefore the tribulation (which is always designed to teach/correct) is less applicable to them in some ways.
And yet, I believe that is the kind of strong, rational faith the 144k will have, that they will not be swayed or confused by all the emotional pity and manipulation of the hard times which will come upon the earth. Instead they will cite the tribulation as a Holy expression of God's love for the world, even if/when they are hated for doing so.
I believe the reference to "not being defiled with women" is, spiritually, a reference to not giving into an effeminate spirit, where the emotions control logic and reason. Instead, logic and reason regulate the emotions. I believe this expresses itself practically when people say stuff like, "How could a loving God do this or that".
I think your reference to the thing about the 144k not being able to repopulate the earth is based on the idea that they are all men, and that this conclusion is based on the description that they were not defiled with women (because they are virgins).
However, as is usual with spiritual issues, there is often more happening below the surface. I'm thinking about Jesus' comment to the pharisees that if they destroy this temple Jesus would rebuild it in three days.
I'm not sure that I've accurately followed the back and forth between you and Keras on this issue, but the 144k is described in such a way that provides for a lot of interpretation.
I think your reference to the thing about the 144k not being able to repopulate the earth is based on the idea that they are all men, and that this conclusion is based on the description that they were not defiled with women (because they are virgins).
In my experience the people who cannot discuss truth without a number next to the truth are often the most stubborn.
I think you have a misunderstanding about the post trib vision as compared to what I suggested about the saints ruling the earth. The great tribulation. Rapture. Wrath, the end of which Jesus returns, with the bride of Christ who were raptured at the end of the Trib, for the battle of Armageddon ( the last bowl of wrath), after which the saints will rule over the remaining mortals who suvived all the disasters around the world, for a 1000 years.
The gathering of the Lord's people at the Return of Jesus is explicitly stated in Matthew 24:31. Paralleled by 1 Thessalonians 4:17, when His people; those who refused the mark of the beast, those who endured the Great tribulation and those who were kept in a place of safety for those 1260 days. Revelation 12:14Was John complacent? Did John forget to mentioned one of the most important event in prophecy involving the rapture of the church? No, he did not. John mentioned the great multitude in heaven from Revelation 19:1-10. There's no need for a post-tribulation rapture because the church is already in heaven.
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