Birth control.

[benedictaoo]

If you're being sarcastic, use emotes or some other sort of verbal cue, because this is an internet forum where sarcasm and humor and other subtle verbal hints are not present. Your language, if you want to be understood, has to be razor sharp, or at least sharp enough to get your point across.

The problem in this is not because we're "losing it", but because when you say things, we are taking them at face value. Use things like the smilies, anything. I'm trying to find where you're coming from.

And Michie does not have a problem with mystics. I never read that in anything she just said.

If you were following the thread instead of not following it, you would not be confused and you would have picked up what I put down for ya. Me and you are saying the same thing. Michie is who is not agreeing but because you are saying it, she is acting like she said something else instead of what she really did say.

This is what happened. The Prot was put off by MikeK's account of the mystics and saints and so Michie road up and said, hey, we do not have to believe them, read them etc. that is a lot of made up stuff from some medieval time that wasn't meant for us anyway...

Mike and myself merely said, that ain't exactly true and instead of owning what she did which was to try to make this look good to the Prot so he/she will stick around, she crawfished back.

Now you are coming in here trying to set me straight by quoting mystics and the saints... lol, that is so funny because Michie said I do not have to listen to any of that. I'm not the one who has a problem with what the mystics said... Michie is.

 

[Michie]

Irenaeous, you want to be a big grown up correcting people? here you go, here is your chance. Michie said something that was wrong. MikeK and myself only and just corrected her and it brought it to this place. She said something wrong in her attempt to schmooze it with a Protestant.

How about you be objective and stop being prejudice against me and talk to her about it. Obviously she is the one who struggles, not me. Maybe you could read my actual word instead of not reading them.

Bene..my patience is running thin. I was not schmoozing, watering anything down. Being a convert myself I feel for other converts but I was not untruthful in anything I said. I can get a Catholic member of staff to read this thread & make decision if desired because you are bordering on lying. You are turning this into a needless bit of drama over something I never did. Do we need a referee?

 

[Irenaeus]

Irenaeous, you want to be a big grown up correcting people? here you go, here is your chance. Michie said something that was wrong. MikeK and myself only and just corrected her and it brought it to this place. She said something wrong in her attempt to schmooze it with a Protestant.

How about you be objective and stop being prejudice against me and talk to her about it. Obviously she is the one who struggles, not me. Maybe you could read my actual word instead of not reading them.

Benedicta, I have read every post you have directed at me. I have tried to be succinct, direct, and considerate. For instance, I do not use sarcasm, both because it presents an intelligibility barrier, but also because it ultimately accomplishes nothing at helping us arrive at the truth.

I have never used personal attacks or said, until quite recently, that you weren't understanding what was being said. If anyone is not reading and understanding what is being said, I do not think that is me. To check myself, I've been rereading some of your posts to see if I missed something between the lines.

The perfect example of not being understood was when I quoted two modern authors in an attempt to explain how hell is a subjective state of being, caused by those in that state, and that God does not necessarily punish them, but only gives them what they ultimately want.

You replied with scorn and dismissed those two as "medieval authors" although they were not medieval at all.

I think if Michie did once say what you say she did, she has long since recanted it.

This thread has long since reached its terminal phase and I'm going to respond to TallGuy. If this conversation continues, it will be in another thread.

 

[benedictaoo]

Bene, I never said anything about a Saint being right or wrong. I don't disagree that Saints are friends & examples. I just don't get your gripe with anything I said. You are arguing something in your own mind. Everything you are preaching about I never brought up & you are acting as if I did. Again, I didn't.

Because you made it sound to the Fire person that we can just blow them off if we do not like what they said or did.

You watered it down to make it look good and you don't want to admit that that is exactly what you were doing.

 

[Michie]

If you were following the thread instead of not following it, you would not be confused and you would have picked up what I put down for ya. Me and you are saying the same thing. Michie is who is not agreeing but because you are saying it, she is acting like she said something else instead of what she really did say.

This is what happened. The Prot was put off by MikeK's account of the mystics and saints and so Michie road up and said, hey, we do not have to believe them, read them etc. that is a lot of made up stuff from some medieval time that wasn't meant for us anyway...

Mike and myself merely said, that ain't exactly true and instead of owning what she did which was to try to make this look good to the Prot so he/she will stick around, she crawfished back.

Now you are coming in here trying to set me straight by quoting mystics and the saints... lol, that is so funny because Michie said I do not have to listen to any of that. I'm not the one who has a problem with what the mystics said... Michie is.

Bene not true. People can go back & read every post I made in this thread & you are not going to find me saying those things or having the intent you say I have. I really don't know what your issue is with me or what I said. Because I did not say it. I feel like you are lying openly without even remotely trying to understand what I said & why. You just want a punching bag & to be correct. Seriously, stop.

 

[Michie]

Because you made it sound to the Fire person that we can just blow them off if we do not like what they said or did.

You watered it down to make it look good and you don't want to admit that that is exactly what you were doing.

Nope. Personal revelations & actions of the Saints were presented & I explained that & out obligations as far as that was concerned.

 

[Irenaeus]

To TallGuy:

I'm a logical person. Experience and reason are the keys to my understanding and Internalizing to things. Mysticism isn't something I'm good at, or even prayer for that matter. Rote, memorized prayers are the ones I'm most comfortable with.

My first suggestion would actually be a small e-book (you can also get a physical copy) called "Time for God" by Jacques Phillipe. I would also suggest a book by Thomas Dubay, "Prayer Primer," and also "Deep Conversion, Deep Prayer."

The first two are quite small. The last one is a bit bigger.

I would like to say also that when you say you "Aren't good at mysticism," I think that's a safe thing to say about a lot of us. The problem, ironically, is not to be good enough, but to be bad enough. That is, to do your best to pray, but also be comfortable enough to know when you don't always do your best. The most important thing in the life of prayer is perseverance.

I really think that a deep prayer life is an essential key to interiorly relishing the Mysteries we profess and practice externally. In the East, there is a tradition that no one is truly a "Theologian" unless he is also a mystic, because there is a concept that someone must know God and not just be able to talk about him. I think this has a lot of truth to it.

If you have any questions I would be more than willing to help. I've been under the direction of several excellent Priests and since I myself am in Holy Orders, I hope I can be of assistance to anyone seeking to grow in Christ.

 

[benedictaoo]

You replied with scorn and dismissed those two as "medieval authors" although they were not medieval at all.

I think if Michie did once say what you say she did, she has long since recanted it.

No, she crawfished back from it, did not recant. which is dumb since we an all read word for word... and those were her words about the medieval authors NOT MINE! Get it now? Go correct her, not me.

I'm offended by what she said to the Prot. I defend the Saints. I so happen to like them. I corrected her the way you tried to do with me and its hilarious because its not me who thinks, feels, and believes this. Its her.. talk to her about it, not me. I do not have the problem with the mystics. I don' have the problem. You are barking up the wrong tree here, bro.

 

[Michie]

Please...everyone go back & read my posts. I think I was pretty clear in my intent & meaning.

 

[benedictaoo]

You may not be talking TO me, but you're still talking ABOUT me.

and then I responded to Irenaeous and you directed towards yourself. you are like no where in this conversation as far as I am concerned so... and I am trying to exercise the ut most restraint right and not go off on you but do not EV-ER get in my "face" and threaten me again.

 

[Tallguy88]

To TallGuy:

My first suggestion would actually be a small e-book (you can also get a physical copy) called "Time for God" by Jacques Phillipe. I would also suggest a book by Thomas Dubay, "Prayer Primer," and also "Deep Conversion, Deep Prayer."

The first two are quite small. The last one is a bit bigger.

I would like to say also that when you say you "Aren't good at mysticism," I think that's a safe thing to say about a lot of us. The problem, ironically, is not to be good enough, but to be bad enough. That is, to do your best to pray, but also be comfortable enough to know when you don't always do your best. The most important thing in the life of prayer is perseverance.

I really think that a deep prayer life is an essential key to interiorly relishing the Mysteries we profess and practice externally. In the East, there is a tradition that no one is truly a "Theologian" unless he is also a mystic, because there is a concept that someone must know God and not just be able to talk about him. I think this has a lot of truth to it.

If you have any questions I would be more than willing to help. I've been under the direction of several excellent Priests and since I myself am in Holy Orders, I hope I can be of assistance to anyone seeking to grow in Christ.

Thanks, I'll look into those.

 

[benedictaoo]

Please...everyone go back & read my posts. I think I was pretty clear in my intent & meaning.

and I think I was in mine by explaining to you that what you said was not exactly true, we can't just blow them off. No, you do not have to read them, follow them, have a devotion to them but it is dumb not to. IMO. it is. *shrug* I would not tell people that- go ahead and blow them off. Devotions are not required. They are not required but I would try to get them to understand how we do fit them in. just what is their place. and not tell them that we can leave them out.

 

[Michie]

Saints I've read:

St.Padre Pio
St. Francis
St. Anthony
St. Faustina
St Catherine of Sienna
St. Theresa of Avilia
And much, much, more. I got book cases full of books on Saints.

 

[Tallguy88]

and then I responded to Irenaeous and you directed towards yourself. you are like no where in this conversation as far as I am concerned so... and I am trying to exercise the ut most restraint right and not go off on you but do not EV-ER get in my "face" and threaten me again.

Stop misrepresenting what me and Michie say and I won't have to keep correcting what you said.

Just to reiterate: private Revalation is not binding on the faithful. It may be useful for them, but what is useful for one will not necessarily be useful for all. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't revere the saints or follow their example, it just means that if I don't find a particular part of their part of their life meaningful, I can instead focus on things that are.

 

[benedictaoo]

lying openly without even remotely trying to understand what I said & why. You just want a punching bag & to be correct. Seriously, stop.

No you stop. Lying requires intent. I m not intentionally making something up that I know is not true. I DO NOT LIE! EV-ER!

What a nasty accusation to make. Calling me a liar. Based on what you did state, I think, in my heart, mind and soul that you were trying to schmooze it with that Prot. trying to make it look good. that is what I think, my opinion. I am not lying on you. It's not like I know you weren't but I'm gonna say you were anyway. I'm not lying on you.

 

[benedictaoo]

Stop misrepresenting what me and Michie say and I won't have to keep correcting what you said.

Just to reiterate: private Revalation is not binding on the faithful. It may be useful for them, but what is useful for one will not necessarily be useful for all. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't revere the saints or follow their example, it just means that if I don't find a particular part of their part of their life meaningful, I can instead focus on things that are.

Stop talking to me, you are irrelevant.

 

[Michie]

Stop misrepresenting what me and Michie say and I won't have to keep correcting what you said.

Just to reiterate: private Revalation is not binding on the faithful. It may be useful for them, but what is useful for one will not necessarily be useful for all. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't revere the saints or follow their example, it just means that if I don't find a particular part of their part of their life meaningful, I can instead focus on things that are.

Yep.

 

[Michie]

No you stop. Lying requires intent. I m not intentionally making something up that I know is not true. I DO NOT LIE! EV-ER!

What a nasty accusation to make. Calling me a liar. Based on what you did state, I think, in my heart, mind and soul that you were trying to schmooze it with that Prot. trying to make it look good. that is what I think, my opinion. I am not lying on you. It's not like I know you weren't but I'm gonna say you were anyway. I'm not lying on you.

Hmm...well that is what it feels like to me. Especially when you said I said you can ignore all saints & they make things up. Really?

Anyway Bene, don't you think we should drop it & just let people read what I actually wrote & we can take this thread in a more productive direction?

 

[Rhamiel]

Stop misrepresenting what me and Michie say and I won't have to keep correcting what you said.

Just to reiterate: private Revalation is not binding on the faithful. It may be useful for them, but what is useful for one will not necessarily be useful for all. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't revere the saints or follow their example, it just means that if I don't find a particular part of their part of their life meaningful, I can instead focus on things that are.

very well said

I do not know why this is even a topic of debate

this thread is weird

 

[Michie]

very well said

I do not know why this is even a topic of debate

this thread is weird

We can turn it around & talk about the saints & the influence & impressions we gleaned from them. Or better yet start a new one. This thread was supposed to be about birth control & questions about it from a seeker anyway.