Birth control.

[Brooklyn Knight]

Ever read The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved by St Leonard of Port Maurice? It doesn't give me much hope. Thankfully, other Saints, like St Faustina, have painted a brighter picture.

Wasn't the number so high due to the number of unrepentant sinners? I may be mistaken on that front.

 

[benedictaoo]

and then it's the fact that it's considered coercing a spouse into doing what is wrong when they request a sexual relationship with them even if they aren't on board with the Church's teaching.

That is not Catholic teaching. For the good of the marriage you have a relationship with your spouse in the hopes one day they may see the light. This idea of divorce them, St Paul said so because having sex with them is doing what is wrong is classic. Missing the forest through the trees of all this text book doctrine.

 

[MikeK]

Wasn't the number so high due to the number of unrepentant sinners? I may be mistaken on that front.

Not exactly. When 3 out of 60,000 are making the cut, we're in trouble.

Sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice

 

[benedictaoo]

So let me get this straight.... we are supposed to bring all these children in the world for God and in reality, only 3 out of 10,000 will go on to be with Him in eternity?

 

[MikeK]

So let me get this straight.... we are supposed to bring all these children in the world for God and in reality, only 3 out of 10,000 will go on to be with Him in eternity?

Thankfully, those numbers are only statements made by Saints on visions they had, and those visions often contradict other reported visions from other Saints.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Maybe this is the reason some saints say that most people go to hell. Most people just can't live up to God's demands even if they desperately want to.

I'm pretty sure God already remedied this with JESUS CHRIST!

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

Not exactly. When 3 out of 60,000 are making the cut, we're in trouble.

Sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice

It's 33,000. Two went to heaven, 3 made it to purgatory. And yeah, there is a part where he talks about people believing God saves most than He condemns, and talks about those who don't properly or don't get a chance to confess:

Where are they now, those who believe that the number of the saved among Christians is greater than that of the damned and who, to authorize their opinion, reason thus: the greater portion of Catholic adults die in their beds armed with the sacraments of the Church, therefore most adult Catholics are saved? Oh, what fine reasoning! You must say exactly the opposite. Most Catholic adults confess badly at death, therefore most of them are damned. I say "all the more certain," because a dying person who has not confessed well when he was in good health will have an even harder time doing so when he is in bed with a heavy heart, an unsteady head, a muddled mind; when he is opposed in many ways by still-living objects, by still-fresh occasions, by adopted habits, and above all by devils who are seeking every means to cast him into hell. Now, if you add to all these false penitents all the other sinners who die unexpectedly in sin, due to the doctors' ignorance or by their relatives' fault, who die from poisoning or from being buried in earthquakes, or from a stroke, or from a fall, or on the battlefield, in a fight, caught in a trap, struck by lightning, burned or drowned, are you not obliged to conclude that most Christian adults are damned?

 

[MikeK]

It's 33,000.

Keep reading.

 

[benedictaoo]

and that is why ignorance is truly bliss.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

Keep reading.

Even bleaker, but I'm still getting unrepentant sinner for the most part. I'll finish reading upon it if there's more than that.

 

[Irenaeus]

The only reason that it must be done is because God is threatening to send one of the persons - not the non-believer and not the children - to hell if they do not obey Him. We trust the non-believer's soul to God, perhaps he or she was invincibly ignorant. The faithful Catholic who consents to sin so that her children can be raised with their father in the home? That's a damning. That mother is a special kind of martyr, I figure. Most martyrs only give this finite life, the mother in this case is risking eternal damnation for the good of her children.

Mike, have you ever read The Brothers Karamazov?

Benedicta: I don't think you read the link I put up on Catholic Theology of Marriage. Then you would have seen this:

If the non-believing party agrees to live with the believer in peace, then they should remain married. However, if the non-believing party does not agree to live in peace, then the believing party can be released from the bond of the non-sacramental marriage and is free to remarry. Even if the non-believing spouse agrees, but then acts contrary to this by abusing the Christian religion, tempting the Christian to infidelity, prevents the children from being raised in Christian faith, or becomes the temptation for the Christian to commit mortal sin, then the latter retains the right to proceed to a new marriage.

This is Catholic Theology. If there is a problem with it, we can talk about it, but that is what the Church teaches. That's all I'm saying right now.

 

[Irenaeus]

Honestly, everyone, there are some overhanging issues in this thread before we can even begin to speak consistently on this.

First: Who is God?
Second: What does he want from us?
Third: What is love?
Fourth: What is marriage?

These are the preambles. Nothing I am going to say, or that the Scriptures or the Church will say, will seem fair if our constant refrain is, "So God is going to throw us into hell if we don't do that?" That is to oversimplify the matter. God has a wider vision of things, and part of that is his mercy. He knows we are sinners. He puts the bar high. A person can break every one of his commandments, but if he is sincerely sorry, he can be forgiven..and that again and again. The Church in Christ's name also puts the bar high, but it also offers his mercy at the same time. We can't ignore either the justice or the mercy of God.

 

[Michie]

These pessimistic outlooks on God & Catholicism are distorted imo. At least I hope so. I can certainly see why some think we are working our way to heaven & do not want to become Catholic. Heck, makes me want to hit the doors too. Thank God for Scripture. I'm unsubscribing. You can PM me if you got something for me in light of our conversations cmarie & Fire. I'm still reading through my papers if you have anything in particular.

 

[MikeK]

Mike, have you ever read The Brothers Karamazov?

No, but I started Crime and Punnishment. I couldn't finish it, I really don't enjoy many novels. I wish I did.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Wasn't the number so high due to the number of unrepentant sinners? I may be mistaken on that front.

I believe in the old Russian saying:

You go to Heaven for the weather and Hell of the company.

If a high number of people go to Hell for their sins that is need to asked:

Is the God we worship really as merciful and beneficent as he is made out to be ?

If the answer is no, then you have we need to ask:

Is this actually a God worth worshiping ?

This is the paradox of attempting to keep the faithful by fear, which so many on this board advocate.

Trying to keep people in line by preaching hellfire and brimstone will, inevitably, turn the faithful against God.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

I believe in the old Russian saying:

You go to Heaven for the weather and Hell of the company.

If a high number of people go to Hell for their sins that is need to asked:

Is the God we worship really as merciful and beneficent as he is made out to be ?

If the answer is no, then you have we need to ask:

Is this actually a God worth worshiping ?

This is the paradox of attempting to keep the faithful by fear, which so many on this board advocate.

Trying to keep people in line by preaching hellfire and brimstone will, inevitably, turn the faithful against God.

Fear?

Not following God or not adhering to the tenants of the Church is no different than someone who who chooses to be an outlaw vs. being a law abiding citizen. They know the consequences and what it entails, and at the end of the day, people still have a final say as to how they want to lead their lives or follow what they want to follow.

Then again, my reply to your first answer is "yes."

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Fear?

Not following God or not adhering to the tenants of the Church is no different than someone who who chooses to be an outlaw vs. being a law abiding citizen. They know the consequences and what it entails, and at the end of the day, people still have a final say as to how they want to lead their lives or follow what they want to follow.

Then again, my reply to your first answer is "yes."

Well, you follow your conscience and I'll follow mine.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

Well, you follow your conscience and I'll follow mine.

Curious as to what that is.

 

[cmarie423]

I believe in the old Russian saying:

You go to Heaven for the weather and Hell of the company.

If a high number of people go to Hell for their sins that is need to asked:

Is the God we worship really as merciful and beneficent as he is made out to be ?

If the answer is no, then you have we need to ask:

Is this actually a God worth worshiping ?

This is the paradox of attempting to keep the faithful by fear, which so many on this board advocate.

Trying to keep people in line by preaching hellfire and brimstone will, inevitably, turn the faithful against God.

I seriously agree with you. I grew up RC and most of my life was spent in fear of hell. Then I joined a pentecostal church and I actually felt like I was a human being that has fallen short of God but He still loves me. I don't know I've been following this post for a while and I just feel too overwhelmed. I don't think I can come back to the church. Not now anyway. It's all too much for me.

 

[Michie]

I seriously agree with you. I grew up RC and most of my life was spent in fear of hell. Then I joined a pentecostal church and I actually felt like I was a human being that has fallen short of God but He still loves me. I don't know I've been following this post for a while and I just feel too overwhelmed. I don't think I can come back to the church. Not now anyway. It's all too much for me.

One day at a time cmarie. Bit of advise, better to contact the Church & not seek advise on the internet. I stayed away from this place till I was accepted into the Church. When I came back I about left Church. lol! Witness & all that. God bless you on your journey.