Birth Control

[benedictaoo]

i think we could all try and be a little more understanding

of what? Folks who take ABC's, who are in a rebellious state of mortal sin, who refuse to repent and think they still can receive Communion?

What is it that i need to understand about this?

 

[Antigone]

THERE ARE ENTIRELY TOO MUCH CAPITALS IN THIS THREAD.

i think we could all try and be a little more understanding

Nah. After all, that would require patience and reflection and that's a stretch too far for some folks here. Mindless YELLING is so much more fun.

 

[Fantine]

I have not singled it out... it is just as evil and sinful as any other mortal sin.

You have yet again Fantine created a diversion with another false argument.

The thread is titled Birth Control, not all those other sins.

we are discussing the immorality of ABC's not any other sin.

the reality is, ABC are immoral in the Church and if you take them, you may not receive Communion but many Catholics ignore that and take communion anyway- wow what they do to their soul!

But you seem to not care what they do to their soul.

You seem to care about us making them feel accepted and welcomed in the Church... wow... just wow.

Only God can determine what is a mortal sin and what isn't.

I care about people's souls. When people (as in generic "people in general") go on long drawn out rants and tirades about birth control I'm not sure how soul-saving those rants are or how seriously the people to whom those tirades and rants are directed take them.

I do think that they are useful in the same way that beating pillows might be, as a way for people (as in generic "people in general") with a lot of anger can defuse their anger.

When I was in my "God is dead" years (probably the first eleven or so years of my marriage) I never found the arguments of absolutists to be persuasive or convincing.

 

[benedictaoo]

there Are Entirely Too Much Capitals In This Thread.

Well Here Are Some More.

I Am Speaking About What Consitutes Sin Objectivly And Not About Ppl.

Alex Thinks I Can Not Be Understanding Of ppl. Sure I Can... If That's What This Was About, But It's Not.

It Is About What The Church Teaches Objectivly Is A Sin And That Ppl Who Are In A State Of Mortal Sin May Not Receive Holy Communion Cuz They Can Damn Their Souls If They Do.

 

[Antigone]

Well Here Are Some More.

I Am Speaking About What Consitutes Sin Objectivly And Not About Ppl.

Alex Thinks I Can Not Be Understanding Of ppl. Sure I Can... If That's What This Was About, But It's Not.

It Is About What The Church Teaches Objectivly Is A Sin And That Ppl Who Are In A State Of Mortal Sin May Not Receive Holy Communion Cuz They Can Damn Their Souls If They Do.

aWEsoMe tYPogRaPHy. ReALLy MAkeS yOuR POsT SeEM sO MUcH MorE ValUABle.

Try Lolspeak next!

 

[benedictaoo]

Only God can determine what is a mortal sin and what isn't.

I care about people's souls. When people (as in generic "people in general") go on long drawn out rants and tirades about birth control I'm not sure how soul-saving those rants are or how seriously the people to whom those tirades and rants are directed take them.

I do think that they are useful in the same way that beating pillows might be, as a way for people (as in generic "people in general") with a lot of anger can defuse their anger.

When I was in my "God is dead" years (probably the first eleven or so years of my marriage) I never found the arguments of absolutists to be persuasive or convincing.

And I really don't believe that most of those couples in church with 1 or 2 or even 3 kids are actively practicing birth control. The statistics show the most common birth control is sterilization--45% of families practicing BC have done this.

And so, if one spouse has been sterilized--one irreversible sin occurring on one day, perhaps many days into the past--they are no longer sinning if they have confessed it.

"What if they're not sorry?" you ask. Well, it is my belief that no one makes a decision like that without feeling some feeling of uncertainty and regret. It's a big decision. Whenever people make big decisions they always wonder about the road not taken.

Would it make you feel any better if 45% of those couples you're scrutinizing and criticizing sinned once in a moment of weakness and can't do anything about it now?

?!?!??!

Say what?

This is called relativism Fantine. and you have ppl like Alex and AFJ totally confused, shame on you.

You are not free to promote anti Catholic ideals in here even if you do have a Catholic icon.

 

[benedictaoo]

aWEsoMe tYPogRaPHy. ReALLy MAkeS yOuR POsT SeEM sO MUcH MorE ValUABle.

Try Lolspeak next!

actully the whole post was in caps and i do not know what happened. I have a fancy shmancy new computer that i guess converts it for me.

and you are being patronizing, not very nice. Alex wants us to be more understanding of one another.

 

[Fantine]

I am not promoting anything. All I'm saying is that the family size of any family you see in church is their business, God's business, and their confessor's business. It's not yours or mine.

 

[Antigone]

and you are being patronizing, not very nice. Alex wants us to be more understanding of one another.

I'm sorry, I'm in one of those moods where I think everything is funny. That includes all the indignant folk around here tonight. That's why a request for mutual understanding is making me laugh. Hah. In this place? Not happenin' tonight!

 

[Catherineanne]

You are not free to promote anti Catholic ideals in here even if you do have a Catholic icon.

As Fantine rightly says, this really doesn't look good from the outside.

It is very difficult to distinguish the voice of the Lord among all the dire warnings of excommunication and mortal sin. However, he can be heard in the voice of reason, which appears to be saying, too much emphasis on one area of sin results in a distortion of the truth. As indeed it does.

Good luck with that, all.

 

[benedictaoo]

As Fantine rightly says, this really doesn't look good from the outside.

Good luck with that, all.

watering down the truth does not look good either. If Catholic Church teaching offends you, sorry. it can not be changed becuase Fantine thinks it will make us look better.

 

[benedictaoo]

It is very difficult to distinguish the voice of the Lord among all the dire warnings of excommunication and mortal sin. However, he can be heard in the voice of reason, which appears to be saying, too much emphasis on one area of sin results in a distortion of the truth. As indeed it does.

No it's not and no it deosn't.

it's all listed in the CCC.

 

[benedictaoo]

I'm sorry, I'm in one of those moods where I think everything is funny. That includes all the indignant folk around here tonight. That's why a request for mutual understanding is making me laugh. Hah. In this place? Not happenin' tonight!

tonight? It's only 3 in the afternoon? make that 4.

 

[Rhamiel]

of what? Folks who take ABC's, who are in a rebellious state of mortal sin, who refuse to repent and think they still can receive Communion?

What is it that i need to understand about this?

first, lets not assume that all those who use ABC do so out of open rebellion, in many cases it could just be that they know it is wrong but they are weak and they fail.
it is a horrible sin, and I think we should all be able to agree that contraception is a main factor in the creation of this culture of death

 

[Antigone]

tonight? It's only 3 in the afternoon? make that 4.

Geez, Benny, are you hell-bent on contradicting everything tonight? It's 10.54 PM over here, and I'm wondering why I'm not lounging on the couch, finishing A Long Way Down. Probably because I like it so much I want to postpone finishing it.

 

[benedictaoo]

I am not promoting anything. All I'm saying is that in any group of 500 Catholic families whom you suspect are practicing birth control because they don't have enough children, some may be infertile, because aren't 10% of couples infertile for some reason or other?

45% may have sinned once, by having vasectomies, and regretted and confessed that sin.

Another 5% may be practicing NFP.

So that's 60% right there. And maybe the other 40% are using the pill--I don't know.

I don't look at people who only have two children and speculate about whether they are practicing birth control or not, because it's between them, God, and their confessor.

neither do I.. show me where i said that?

All i said is what constitutes mortal sin and not being free to go to Communion.

If you use ABC to prevent pregnancy, you may not go to Communion. I mean you can but you take it in judgement of your sins, not in forgiveness of them.

it does not matter if you have no kids or a 100 kids.

and if I am lying, I'm dying.

 

[benedictaoo]

Geez, Benny, are you hell-bent on contradicting everything tonight? It's 10.54 PM over here, and I'm wondering why I'm not lounging on the couch, finishing A Long Way Down. Probably because I like it so much I want to postpone finishing it.

I don't know what you are talking about.. I'm about to go to Mass.

 

[Antigone]

I don't know what you are talking about.. I'm about to go to Mass.

They're called timezones, Benedicta. I'm in the GMT +1 zone.

 

[benedictaoo]

first, lets not assume that all those who use ABC do so out of open rebellion, in many cases it could just be that they know it is wrong but they are weak and they fail.
it is a horrible sin, and I think we should all be able to agree that contraception is a main factor in the creation of this culture of death

didn't i say those who are in rebellion? what constitutes Mortal sin? Weakness does not.

out right claiming that the Church teaches this but i can disregard it is not weakness, it is rebellion.

and these ppl are going to communion and that is pretty effed up.

and you need to learn the difference between speaking in a generalcality and speaking about specific situations.

 

[benedictaoo]

They're called timezones, Benedicta. I'm in the GMT +1 zone.

so? I'm in central... GMT + 6, I think. and that's all that matters.