Bill Johnson

[simonthezealot]

There is only 2 sentences on that page! You can't do that, it's like taking the bible and claiming just one verse in it explains the entire message of the bible.
Sweet mother of pearl, anyone can find something wrong with someone if they want based on how you're picking words to bits

click on the box...
You can read it in full context.

 

[sunlover1]

I linked his book sunny...
Make no mistake if you go back and find that link he says specifically
Christ did miracles and wonders but "not as God"

I remember you saying that but that's kind of how I explain it as well.

When Heaven Invades Earth: A Practical Guide to a Life of Miracles - Bill Johnson - Google Books

Click on page 7 start reading there.

This what you were referring to?
I'll check it out

 

[ToBeBlessed]

What ya havin' fer dinner?



.

Do you really want to know?

 

[simonthezealot]

I remember you saying that but that's kind of how I explain it as well.



This what you were referring to?
I'll check it out

You can't do that sunshine, if He was less than a divine sacrifice His atonement would not have had the eternal affect it did.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

What do you guys make/think of this?

When Heaven Invades Earth
by Bill Johnson
page 28

QUOTE
'Jesus could not heal the sick. Neither could He deliver the tormented from demons or raise the dead. To believe otherwise is to ignore what He said about Himself, and more importantly, to miss the purpose of His self- imposed restriction to live as a man.

Jesus Christ said of Himself, "The Son can do nothing."2 In the Greek language that word nothing has a unique meaning—it means NOTHING, just like it does in English! He had NO supernatural capabilities whatsoever! While He is 100 percent God, He chose to live with the same limitations that man would face once He was redeemed. He made that point over and over again. Jesus became the model for all who would embrace the invitation to invade the impossible in His name. He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God ... not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us. But if He did them as a man, I am responsible to pursue His lifestyle. Recapturing this simple truth changes everything... and makes possible a full restoration of the ministry of Jesus in His Church.'

See 'When Heaven Invades Earth'

 

[simonthezealot]

What do you guys make/think of this?

When Heaven Invades Earth
by Bill Johnson
page 28

QUOTE
'Jesus could not heal the sick. Neither could He deliver the tormented from demons or raise the dead. To believe otherwise is to ignore what He said about Himself, and more importantly, to miss the purpose of His self- imposed restriction to live as a man.

Jesus Christ said of Himself, "The Son can do nothing."2 In the Greek language that word nothing has a unique meaning—it means NOTHING, just like it does in English! He had NO supernatural capabilities whatsoever! While He is 100 percent God, He chose to live with the same limitations that man would face once He was redeemed. He made that point over and over again. Jesus became the model for all who would embrace the invitation to invade the impossible in His name. He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God ... not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us. But if He did them as a man, I am responsible to pursue His lifestyle. Recapturing this simple truth changes everything... and makes possible a full restoration of the ministry of Jesus in His Church.'

See 'When Heaven Invades Earth'

its a mess wrought full of false heretical teaching.

 

[sunlover1]

You can't do that sunshine, if He was less than a divine sacrifice His atonement would not have had the eternal affect it did.

No, I don't think you undesrtand what I mean.
And as I am looking at this link, I understand BJ to be saying that
He (Jesus) did miracles etc not AS God, but as a man filled with the
power of the Holy Spirit.
It would be like if I were a choreographer and I wanted to
go to a musical just for enjoyment, I might say that I
was going to see the musical, but not as a choreographer.
Now that doesn't make me any less of a choreographer,
it just explains the context of my night at the musical

So I'm still retaining my status as a choreographer.
And from the context I read around the words "not as God"
that was the very same idea I understood BJ to be saying.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

No, I don't think you undesrtand what I mean.
And as I am looking at this link, I understand BJ to be saying that
He (Jesus) did miracles etc not AS God, but as a man filled with the
power of the Holy Spirit.
It would be like if I were a choreographer and I wanted to
go to a musical just for enjoyment, I might say that I
was going to see the musical, but not as a choreographer.
Now that doesn't make me any less of a choreographer,
it just explains the context of my night at the musical

So I'm still retaining my status as a choreographer.
And from the context I read around the words "not as God"
that was the very same idea I understood BJ to be saying.

Did you read the above text quoted directly from his book? That's exactly what he said.

 

[sunlover1]

Did you read the above text quoted directly from his book? That's exactly what he said.

I did.
I went to the link and read all that you posted.
It was right from Scripture.
Jesus said that same thing.
I can do NOTHING by myself.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

its a mess wrought full of false heretical teaching.

It's not a mess at all = It's 100% accurate - this is exactly what Jesus did. So now you will have to label everyone on this site and on this thread with the same label you've given Bill Johnson .... that's a lot of people who "have it all wrong"

"He is 100 percent God, He chose to live with the same limitations that man would face once He was redeemed. He made that point over and over again. Jesus became the model for all who would embrace the invitation to invade the impossible in His name. He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God ... not as God. "​

 

[sunlover1]

As Christ is, so are we, in the world.

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me
will do the works I have been doing...

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I did.
I went to the link and read all that you posted.
It was right from Scripture.
Jesus said that same thing.
I can do NOTHING by myself.

Does that mean that you believe that Jesus performed miracles as a man who was 100% right with God? How would He be divine enough to escape sin? That just doesn't seem right at all.

Why would Jesus need to be 100% man to do the Father's will perfectly? Why would the Holy Spirit need to come over Mary for Jesus conception? So He wouldn't have the inherited sin of Adam? I don't get it?

 

[HisSparkPlug]

So, then when did Jesus receive the Holy Spirit?

At baptism. Luke 3:22 tells us,
and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

 

[ToBeBlessed]

At baptism. Luke 3:22 tells us,
and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

That doesn't mean Jesus was baptized in the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist was to receive a sign when the Messiah came to him (John) in baptism.

 

[sunlover1]

Does that mean that you believe that Jesus performed miracles as a man who was 100% right with God? How would He be divine enough to escape sin? That just doesn't seem right at all.

I KNOW! Amazing isn't He?

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize
with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted
in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin.

Why would Jesus need to be 100% man to do the Father's will perfectly? Why would the Holy Spirit need to come over Mary for Jesus conception? So He wouldn't have the inherited sin of Adam? I don't get it?

Huh?
Could you make another thread to try to understand all of this?
The purpose of this thread is to find out what this Bill Johnson
is about.

Do you mind making one? I have so many already.
And I don't mean to put you off at all.
Those questions are intriguing!
I'd love to hear the responses

 

[ImaginaryDay]

What do you guys make/think of this?

When Heaven Invades Earth
by Bill Johnson
page 28

QUOTE
'Jesus could not heal the sick. Neither could He deliver the tormented from demons or raise the dead. To believe otherwise is to ignore what He said about Himself, and more importantly, to miss the purpose of His self- imposed restriction to live as a man.

Jesus Christ said of Himself, "The Son can do nothing."2 In the Greek language that word nothing has a unique meaning—it means NOTHING, just like it does in English! He had NO supernatural capabilities whatsoever! While He is 100 percent God, He chose to live with the same limitations that man would face once He was redeemed. He made that point over and over again. Jesus became the model for all who would embrace the invitation to invade the impossible in His name. He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God ... not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us. But if He did them as a man, I am responsible to pursue His lifestyle. Recapturing this simple truth changes everything... and makes possible a full restoration of the ministry of Jesus in His Church.'

See 'When Heaven Invades Earth'

No, I don't think you undesrtand what I mean.
And as I am looking at this link, I understand BJ to be saying that
He (Jesus) did miracles etc not AS God, but as a man filled with the
power of the Holy Spirit.
It would be like if I were a choreographer and I wanted to
go to a musical just for enjoyment, I might say that I
was going to see the musical, but not as a choreographer.
Now that doesn't make me any less of a choreographer,
it just explains the context of my night at the musical

So I'm still retaining my status as a choreographer.
And from the context I read around the words "not as God"
that was the very same idea I understood BJ to be saying.

You want to point out to me where he said that (the bolded and underlined part) in the text that was quoted? Even if the author DID say that, he still denies that Christ did ANYTHING as God. Clearly heretical.

 

[NorrinRadd]

How so? you read his writings?

Before pursuing this further, I would like YOU to comment on a few quotes:

1) "The New Testament irrefutably teaches that Christ did not exercise at least three prime attributes of deity while on the earth prior to His resurrection. These were omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. Had He done so while a man, He could not have been perfect humanity...

"The miracles of our Lord offer further proof of His limitations as a
man, for He did not hesitate to teach that He personally worked none of them, and that it was the Father who performed the works (John 5:19, 30; John 8:28; 10:37, 38; 10:32; 14:10...

"It can be said on good biblical ground that all of Christ's miracles,
powers, and supernatural information were the result of the Father's
action through Him, thus safeguarding our Lord's identity as a true
man (John 14:10; John 5:30)"

2) "All this to say that an orthodox Biblical Christology almost certainly embrace some sort of a 'kenotic' understanding of the Incarnation, that the One who was truly God also in His Incarnation lived a truly human life in which He grew both in stature and in wisdom and understanding (Luke 2:52), learned obedience through what He suffered (Heb. 5:8), and who as Son of the Father did not know the day or the hour (Mark 13:32)

Could such a one also have gone 'zap' and produced instant hamburger in his hand? That is, could he have turned stones into bread at his own behest, as Satan tested him to do? That remains in the category of the unknown. But to believe that he could have done so would mean that his own powers during his humanity were limitless, as over against his being fully dependent on the Father in the power of the Spirit. The overall evidence of the Gospels seems to imply that he could not, since in contrast to the apocryphal gospels, they offer us no evidence of an Incarnate God who used powers for his own selfish ends."


3)"His was a real victory over real temptations to do evil. But his victory 'did not result from some automatic necessity of his nature, as much as from his moment-by-moment committal of himself to the Father.'"

...

"It will become clearer now in this present chapter that this directing work of the Spirit continued throughout the remaining years of Jesus' life. Furthermore, it will become clear that the Spirit so fully motivated Jesus' speech and actions that the miracles he performed and the words he spoke he spoke and performed, not by virtue of his own power, the power of his own divine personality, but by virtue of the power of the Holy Spirit at work within him and through him."

...

"Thus, in answer to the question of how Jesus differed from other people who depended on the Spirit for the extra in their lives, it is possible to answer that in terms of his humanness, it differed in essentially no way. By this I mean that God the Son, who became flesh in Jesus, became a real human being, and as such he needed the Spirit's power to lift him out of his human restrictions, to carry him beyond his human limitations, and to enable him to do the seeming impossible."

 

[ToBeBlessed]

You want to point out to me where he said that (the bolded and underlined part) in the text that was quoted? Even if the author DID say that, he still denies that Christ did ANYTHING as God. Clearly heretical.

This is the link

http://godsgovernmentisprayer.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/when-heaven-invades-earth.pdf

See page 28

 

[HisSparkPlug]

That doesn't mean Jesus was baptized in the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist was to receive a sign when the Messiah came to him (John) in baptism.

You can create another thread for this one too, and when you do, you should let everyone know when YOU think Jesus was baptised in the Holy Spirit

 

[HisSparkPlug]

Why would Jesus need to be 100% man to do the Father's will perfectly? Why would the Holy Spirit need to come over Mary for Jesus conception? So He wouldn't have the inherited sin of Adam? I don't get it?

Hmmm.. because that's the only way God could be Jesus' Father and Himself become Jesus. No one is saying that Jesus isn't or wasn't God
I'm sure you'll get some interesting replies to your question in the thread you create about it