Biden might be in trouble.

[Hank77]

There has been no unethical behavior substantiated for Biden ...

I look at this accusation against Biden in much the same way as the accusation against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. There just isn't any clear evidence and she has changed her story several times.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, that's true. I suppose I should have been more specific and less vague. But my point still stands because we've witnessed 4 years of his conservative supporters fervently defending him and trying to justify their vote for him. It's pointless for any of them to point a judgmental finger at Joe Biden, tbh.

"No one is sinless and perfect."

"Who among us is without sin?"

"At least he's not Hillary Clinton."

"I voted for the lesser of two evils."

"I voted for a President, not a pastor."

"Trump's sins are between him and God."

"Christians shouldn't judge Trump for his sins."

"I didn't vote for Trump because he was a choir boy."

"Trump's bragging about sexually groping women was locker room banter."

Okay, then is it fair to say that if conservatives are in the wrong in supporting Trump, then liberals are in the wrong in supporting Biden?

 

[tulc]

(snip) Especially when the old man who was impeached was impeached for looking into corruption by the other old man.

Except he wasn't "impeached for looking into corruption" he was impeached for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
Impeachment of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

A set of impeachment hearings before the House Judiciary Committee began on December 4; on December 13, it voted 23–17 along party lines to recommend two articles of impeachment, for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The committee released a lengthy report on the impeachment articles on December 16. Two days later, the full House approved both articles in a mostly party-line vote, with all Republicans opposing along with three Democrats. (emph. added)

tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

 

[tall73]

Frankly I do not see that happening. But good luck to you. The present system seems to be in serious trouble right now.

I agree it is a long shot. But it has happened before. And we can never change if we don't try.

 

[tall73]

I look at this accusation against Biden in much the same way as the accusation against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. There just isn't any clear evidence and she has changed her story several times.

That is the problem with decades old accusations.

 

[GACfan]

Okay, then is it fair to say that if conservatives are in the wrong in supporting Trump, then liberals are in the wrong in supporting Biden?

I personally think so. As I've said before in my previous posts, neither the Republican Party or the Democratic Party is morally superior and more righteous than the other. There's honestly no point in either conservatives or liberals pretending to have the moral high ground over the other because both of them have moral depravity and political corruption festering within the ranks of their political party.

Both of these political parties have politicians who perpetually lie and purposely deceive in order to gain power and dominance over the other political party. Donald Trump is the result of a majority of Republicans who wanted to gain political dominance over Democrats. He is the result of the majority of Republicans who wanted to keep another Democrat out of the White House. If Joe Biden wins the next election, then he will be the result of many Democrats wanting to oust Trump and regain control of the presidency. He will be the result of many Democrats who will want to regain political power and dominance over Republicans. It's business as usual in American politics and there's no point in either of them pretending to be morally upright than the other. Both parties have moral corruption in them.

 

[Sketcher]

Except he wasn't "impeached for looking into corruption" he was impeached for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
Impeachment of Donald Trump - Wikipedia


tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

The charges were brought because he was allegedly trying to get information on the firing of the Ukranian lawyer who was looking into Hunter Biden, when Joe Biden allegedly threatened to hold back $1 billion if he wasn't fired.

 

[Nithavela]

So in four years of people on the left calling out people on the right's hypocrisy they not only failed to convince Trump supporters, but failed to convince themselves?

I think it's more a case of the opposition convincing them. Once a taboo has been broken once, it is far easier to break it again.

 

[Nithavela]

Or it was the right moral choice, and we need to continue to build up third parties until they are viable enough to break up the duopoly.

I seriously have to question that the third parties are any better.

Have you seen the third party candidates in 2016? They were pretty bad, too.

 

[tulc]

The charges were brought because he was allegedly trying to get information on the firing of the Ukranian lawyer who was looking into Hunter Biden, when Joe Biden allegedly threatened to hold back $1 billion if he wasn't fired.

uhmmm...and none of that is what he was impeached for.
tulc(just thought that needed to be pointed out, part two)

 

[Kentonio]

I personally think so. As I've said before in my previous posts, neither the Republican Party or the Democratic Party is morally superior and more righteous than the other. There's honestly no point in either conservatives or liberals pretending to have the moral high ground over the other because both of them have moral depravity and political corruption festering within the ranks of their political party.

Both of these political parties have politicians who perpetually lie and purposely deceive in order to gain power and dominance over the other political party. Donald Trump is the result of a majority of Republicans who wanted to gain political dominance over Democrats. He is the result of the majority of Republicans who wanted to keep another Democrat out of the White House. If Joe Biden wins the next election, then he will be the result of many Democrats wanting to oust Trump and regain control of the presidency. He will be the result of many Democrats who will want to regain political power and dominance over Republicans. It's business as usual in American politics and there's no point in either of them pretending to be morally upright than the other. Both parties have moral corruption in them.

Sorry but no. Yes the Democratic Party is deeply flawed, corrupt in some ways and frequently disappointing to people who want a moral option. They are not however the same as the Republicans and they are certainly morally superior to the party that literally tries to take food from the mouths of hungry children to pay for tax breaks for multi-millionaires.

 

[A_Thinker]

We may differ on this point, but touting his connection to an administration that conducted an illegal drone strike campaign, de-stabalized Libya which is now divided between terrorist factions, and has open slave markets, and which let all of the Bush operatives who conducted the "enhanced interrogation campaign" off, does have a few moral questions.

The administration also sold more weapons than the Bush administration, including to countries their own state department identified as human rights abusers.

These are merely political opinions (as to right or wrong) ... and are the baggage of every politician.

And see above on his admitting plagerism and falsifying his record.

In a race between Biden and Trump, ... I might actually look favorably upon an ADMISSION of plagerism 32 years ago ... especially when compared with the performance of an obvious con-man, ... who has yet to ADMIT any wrongdoing.

The issue is really not that Biden is squeaky clean, ... it's that anything he has done (or is accused of) pales mightily against the life that is Trump's ...

 

[ZNP]

Honestly, it's a day late and a dollar short for a conservative to start acting like the moral character of the President should be a serious issue to judge again now that it's Biden's character in question. I'm sorry, but that bird flew the coop four years ago in the 2016 presidential election. It's laughable now.

What really brought it home to me was when a poster on this forum compared Nixon to Trump and Biden and you realized how much better he would be than what we have today. Compare the current presidents we have had to FDR and the contrast is really stark.

 

[ZNP]

Sorry, I am not buying your false dichotomy of throwing your vote away.

I think we should have a law that if we have less than 50% of the registered voters vote then the election is not valid. That would give those of us who dislike both candidates an option. Without this law the big donors will continue to get their prostitutes elected.

 

[Kentonio]

I agree it is a long shot. But it has happened before. And we can never change if we don't try.

The problem keeps being that you have third parties who drain a lot more of the vote from one party than the other, basically just handing the election to the other side. For a third party to actually gain ground they’d have to sit in the middle and that seems almost impossible as long as the centrist wing of the Democrats retains control of the party. The only way I can see a third party really taking root would be if the Dems split into progressives and centrists, and the centrists were then able to eat into the Republican moderates.

 

[ZNP]

I look at this accusation against Biden in much the same way as the accusation against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. There just isn't any clear evidence and she has changed her story several times.

Then we should have the same trial that Kavanaugh had.

BTW I see several differences -- first he was accused of something that happened in HS, whereas Biden is accused of something he did while being a senator. Second, Kavanaugh's accuser was dropped on the proceedings months after the senator learned about the accusation essentially at the very last minute in a transparent attempt to delay the vote. This accusation was made as soon as it became clear that Biden would be the democratic nominee. Third, there were no subsequent allegations of Kavanaugh while a judge which you would expect of someone who was a predator, whereas the accusations against Biden are commonplace and well known from day 1.

 

[A_Thinker]

Okay, then is it fair to say that if conservatives are in the wrong in supporting Trump, then liberals are in the wrong in supporting Biden?

If Biden is another version of Trump, just with different political leanings, ... then I guess so ...

 

[ZNP]

Sorry but no. Yes the Democratic Party is deeply flawed, corrupt in some ways and frequently disappointing to people who want a moral option. They are not however the same as the Republicans and they are certainly morally superior to the party that literally tries to take food from the mouths of hungry children to pay for tax breaks for multi-millionaires.

Since you are from France how would the French react to an allegation that the man running for president had done what Biden is accused of?

 

[A_Thinker]

What really brought it home to me was when a poster on this forum compared Nixon to Trump and Biden and you realized how much better he would be than what we have today. Compare the current presidents we have had to FDR and the contrast is really stark.

You're not really suggesting that Nixon is a preference to anyone, are you ?

 

[A_Thinker]

Then we should have the same trial that Kavanaugh had.

Biden's approval/election will occur in a different context that Kavanaugh's.

Kavanaugh was subject to Senate approval, ... while Biden's fate will be decided by the voting public. And these accusations against Biden are already present in the public sphere.

We'll see what the public makes of them ...