Biblical proof of Mary's virginity

[Chrétien de Troyes]

The evidence is Joseph and Mary were husband and wife as in Matthew 19:5.

This is a conjecture, not an evidence.

 

[redleghunter]

If Jesus was the eldest of other children of Mary, then He would have commanded the utmost respect from His younger siblings, not just from being the eldest, but primarily from the perfect example He would have provided for them, being God in the flesh. The Gospel accounts of His brothers are not consistent with such a reality. They are, however, completely consistent with them being older siblings.

Speculation.

One could just say His brothers were ticked off Jesus went walking around as an itinerant preacher not leading and providing for the family.

 

[redleghunter]

This is a conjecture, not an evidence.

Matthew 1: NASB
15Eliud was the father of Eleazar,

Eleazar the father of Matthan,

Matthan the father of Jacob,

16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary,

of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Every version has husband:

https://biblehub.com/matthew/1-16.htm

Including the Greek Orthodox Patriarchal Text:

Matthew 1:16: Jacob became the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

Eastern/Greek Orthodox New Testament based on the Official Text of the Greek Orthodox Church (Patriarchal Text of 1904)

 

[ewq1938]

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

This proves Mary did not continue being a virgin plus it establishes husband and wife status. Scripture always defeats false doctrines.

 

[Chrétien de Troyes]

Matthew 1: NASB
15Eliud was the father of Eleazar,

Eleazar the father of Matthan,

Matthan the father of Jacob,

16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary,

of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Every version has husband:

https://biblehub.com/matthew/1-16.htm

Including the Greek Orthodox Patriarchal Text:

Matthew 1:16: Jacob became the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

Eastern/Greek Orthodox New Testament based on the Official Text of the Greek Orthodox Church (Patriarchal Text of 1904)

As I explained it is a choice of translators. They were never really married, the Gospel of Matthew used the term "man" translated into "husband" while they are still engaged.

 

[redleghunter]

This is a conjecture, not an evidence.

Matthew 1: NASB

18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged in marriage to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with Child through the Holy Spirit.19Because Joseph her husband, a righteous man, was unwilling to disgrace her publicly, he resolved to divorce her quietly.

20But after he had pondered these things, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the One conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you shall give Him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.”

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:

23“Behold! The virgin will be with child

and will give birth to a son,

and they will call Him Immanuel”a

(which means, “God with us”).

24When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and embraced Mary as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus. (NASB)

That’s what The Scriptures reveal to us. Even your own Patriarchal Text.

 

[redleghunter]

As I explained it is a choice of translators. They were never really married, the Gospel of Matthew used the term "man" translated into "husband" while they are still engaged.

Your own Patriarchal text calls Joseph the husband of Mary. It even goes to the detail of saying he took her home. Meaning completing the marriage vows. Betrothed did not cohabitate in that culture. It was 1st century AD Palestine not 21st century Soho.

No matter of Lexicon lottery will get away from the fact Joseph and Mary were husband and wife.

 

[Chrétien de Troyes]

Your own Patriarchal text calls Joseph the husband of Mary. It even goes to the detail of saying he took her home. Meaning completing the marriage vows. Betrothed did not cohabitate in that culture. It was 1st century AD Palestine not 21st century Soho.

No matter of Lexicon lottery will get away from the fact Joseph and Mary were husband and wife.

The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church made mistakes of interpretation just like the Protestants.
Here I make an exegesis of the text without worrying about the opinion of any church, as Origen did in his time.
And a serious analysis of the SYNOPTIC Gospels shows that they have never been married but have remained at the level of betrothed .

 

[redleghunter]

The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church made mistakes of interpretation just like the Protestants.
Here I make an exegesis of the text without worrying about the opinion of any church, as Origen did in his time.
And a serious analysis of the SYNOPTIC Gospels shows that they have never been married but have remained at the level of betrothed .

Ok so you are above your own Patriarchs. Good to know. What else did your church Patriarchs get wrong?

So what you are presenting here is Joseph was not Mary’s husband but just some dude (man) with no family relation to her. Which would be scandal even back then.

Therefore, you have a man not related by blood or marriage carting around the pregnant Virgin Mary and taking her to the census in Bethlehem to count her as part of his house. Or was she just along for the ride?

Wow! Sounds like you all need a Pope with all these differing opinions.

 

[Chrétien de Troyes]

Ok so you are above your own Patriarchs. Good to know. What else did your church Patriarchs get wrong?

So what you are presenting here is Joseph was not Mary’s husband but just some dude (man) with no family relation to her. Which would be scandal even back then.

Therefore, you have a man not related by blood or marriage carting around the pregnant Virgin Mary and taking her to the census in Bethlehem to count her as part of his house. Or was she just along for the ride?

Wow! Sounds like you all need a Pope with all these differing opinions.

First, this exegesis is not from me, but some one I know. Then we must know how to make the difference between the theology derived from a text, in which the patriarch actually has authority, and exegesis itself.
It will take one day for everyone to recognize his own mistakes if we want the reunification of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Amen.

 

[redleghunter]

Here I make an exegesis of the text without worrying about the opinion of any church, as Origen did in his time.

I have failed to see the exegesis. I did see a lexicon raffle or lottery. Exegesis takes into consideration the full text and context. Eisegesis, a reading into the text means we can make it say whatever we want. That’s what you are doing. You want Mary to be ever Virgin and so must arrange the text to mean what you want it to mean.

And a serious analysis of the SYNOPTIC I Gospels shows that they have never been married but have remained at the level of betrothed .

Ok let’s put this into perspective. Betrothed is a bit more meaningful for the time than being engaged is today. For Joseph to break off the Betrothal, he would need to divorce Mary. The text says he considered this.

However, not even back in 1st Century AD Judea or Galilee did Virgin betrothed travel the countryside without a male blood relationship. This shows Joseph was her husband. Unless you think they ran away to elope?

 

[redleghunter]

First, this exegesis is not from me, but some one I know.

I’m sure he has a YouTube video you would like to share?

Then we must know how to make the difference between the theology derived from a text, in which the patriarch actually has authority, and exegesis itself.

You are actively shopping for a Patriarch to accept your theory?

It will take one day for everyone to recognize his own mistakes if we want the reunification of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Amen.

Martin Luther said something like this. Looks like the Eastern Church is finally getting their own revolt.

 

[Chrétien de Troyes]

I have failed to see the exegesis. I did see a lexicon raffle or lottery. Exegesis takes into consideration the full text and context. Eisegesis, a reading into the text means we can make it say whatever we want. That’s what you are doing. You want Mary to be ever Virgin and so must arrange the text to mean what you want it to mean

No the exegesis show that they have never been married, the fact that Mary remained Virgin is only the most logical conclusion that follows.

Ok let’s put this into perspective. Betrothed is a bit more meaningful for the time than being engaged is today. For Joseph to break off the Betrothal, he would need to divorce Mary. The text says he considered this.

To be officially married, the marriage had to be consummated. Now one can imagine the number of years they would have been betrothed if Mary had other sons in addition to the vicissitudes in Egypt.

 

[Chrétien de Troyes]

I’m sure he has a YouTube video you would like to share?

No he does not.

 

[Tutorman]

I do believe in Mary Perpetual Virginity. However, the OP's pride that he knows better than his own Church reminds me of a little battle in Heaven where an angel fell because of the Pride that he too knew better than anyone.

 

[prodromos]

Considering the translation is from the Hebrew...

So? Do you think translations from Hebrew into English are inherently better?

 

[redleghunter]

Not the exegesis to show that they have never been married, the fact that Mary remained Virgin is only the most logical conclusion that follows.

No that is not a logical conclusion. The logical conclusion from the text and culture is they lived as husband and wife.

To be officially married, the marriage had to be consummated. Now one can imagine the number of years they would have been betrothed if Mary had other sons in addition to the vicissitudes in Egypt.

This is a stretch. Mary and Joseph would have to wait 33 days after the Birth of Christ before consummating the marriage. See Leviticus 12

 

[redleghunter]

So? Do you think translations from Hebrew into English are inherently better?

St Jerome thought so.

 

[Chrétien de Troyes]

This is a stretch. Mary and Joseph would have to wait 33 days after the Birth of Christ before consummating the marriage. See Leviticus 12

And what is the name of the son they had after this?

 

[redleghunter]

And what is the name of the son they had after this?

I was quoting what would be the earliest opportunity for the marriage to be consummated.