Biblical, Enclosed Flat Earth and Firmament

patrick jane · Mar 4, 2018

The books of Enoch are not canonized as we know, but Enoch is mentioned clearly in scripture and is a man who walked with God and God took him. Enoch never died. How can a man that walked with God and was taken by God and never tasted death not be canonized? This thread is in religion and I only the 66 books but I may take a look at Enoch's texts. I have heard that one must be careful as there are many forgeries. This video claims to be all of Enoch but I haven't watched it yet. Enoch's writings are very convincing for a flat enclosed earth and firmament and I have posted a small amount of written text in this thread already. I may do more, it depends on how the spirits test out.
1 John 4:1-3 KJV -
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Genesis 5:18-24 KJV -
And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 KJV -
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

Matthew 24 10 said:
If you don't understand that how did you pass science exam it's first thing you learn in physics class . If one Force is pulling down something with force of 1 Netwon and there is opposite force pulling something up with force of 1 Newton the body will stay motionless because these forces will work against each other .

It would look something like that

Nice video, but go to the source of the video and you'll see that even the person who recorded it and posted it said that it's an illusion.
That's one of the things that gets me about these proponents of FE theory--they find a video they like that seems to show what they believe, but they don't even look at the source, or even what is being said before posting it. So easily refuted just by showing you what the original recorder of the video said:
"Plane Suspended Illusion. I was on HWY 518 East in Seattle when this plane caught our attention. It initially looked as if it were landing on the freeway and not at the airport on the right side. I started recording just as it cleared the freeway. You would expect the landing plane to be moving at a high rate of speed in the opposite direction of our vehicle. Instead, it seems to be suspended in air and it's reference to the overpass makes it look like it never moves at all. NO, it is not a trick...NO, it is not connected to a pole....No, I do not have a scientific answer for you. This is a common occurrence that is just rarely captured to a reference point. Notice that the landing gear is down and you can see a drop in elevation...as well as exhaust fumes. It is an illusion to unseen factors of wind and speed."

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

JacksBratt said:
I could say the exact same thing about the "cognitive dissonant" answers and excuses that are presented, here, in defense of the flawed globe model.

I get it, you believe the model of the universe that you have been taught since you were just out of diapers.... Really, I get that.

Some of us, however, are saying "hold the phone", some things just don't make sense.

Your not convincing us... we're not convincing you....

God Bless.

Perhaps not, but the alternatives being presented make even less sense, and are easily proven to be nonsense. It's been done numerous times already, but that fact is being conveniently ignored.

patrick jane · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
Nice video, but go to the source of the video and you'll see that even the person who recorded it and posted it said that it's an illusion.
That's one of the things that gets me about these proponents of FE theory--they find a video they like that seems to show what they believe, but they don't even look at the source, or even what is being said before posting it. So easily refuted just by showing you what the original recorder of the video said:
"Plane Suspended Illusion. I was on HWY 518 East in Seattle when this plane caught our attention. It initially looked as if it were landing on the freeway and not at the airport on the right side. I started recording just as it cleared the freeway. You would expect the landing plane to be moving at a high rate of speed in the opposite direction of our vehicle. Instead, it seems to be suspended in air and it's reference to the overpass makes it look like it never moves at all. NO, it is not a trick...NO, it is not connected to a pole....No, I do not have a scientific answer for you. This is a common occurrence that is just rarely captured to a reference point. Notice that the landing gear is down and you can see a drop in elevation...as well as exhaust fumes. It is an illusion to unseen factors of wind and speed."

You have one source - nasa - and they are proven liars. We are at an impasse. Good day

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

patrick jane said:
You have one source - nasa - and they are proven liars. We are at an impasse. Good day

And amateur astronomers all around the globe (yes, that's what it is) who have taken photos of celestial objects in both the northern and southern hemispheres, using both digital and film photography through their own telescopes. Are they all liars too?

Matthew 24 10 · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
And amateur astronomers all around the globe (yes, that's what it is) who have taken photos of celestial objects in both the northern and southern hemispheres, using both digital and film photography through their own telescopes. Are they all liars too?

Can you present photos made by them ?

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

Matthew 24 10 said:
Can you present photos made by them ?

All day long.....
amateur astronomy - Google Search

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

patrick jane said:
We know that God created two great lights on the fourth day, the sun and moon and the stars. Where was the sun on days 1,2 and 3? This proves evolution and the "beg" bang wrong, IMO. This also means the moon gives off it's own light as the sun does. It's not all from a reflection of the other great light. I believe firmly that moon landings were a Hoax. If they lie about that then everything is up for grabs. Do you trust the word of God or the science?

Genesis 1:1-19 KJV -
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

A large problem is that you're taking each word in the bible literally. If you do that for everything, then why don't we see God's feet covering the earth if the earth is His footstool (literally) in Isaiah 66:1? Is God sitting in Heaven with His feet literally propped up on the earth? Is David saying his tongue is literally a pen in Psalm 45:1? When Christ appears in Revelation with a sword coming out of His mouth, do you think Christ literally has a sword hanging out of His mouth?

patrick jane · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
A large problem is that you're taking each word in the bible literally. If you do that for everything, then why don't we see God's feet covering the earth if the earth is His footstool (literally) in Isaiah 66:1? Is God sitting in Heaven with His feet literally propped up on the earth? Is David saying his tongue is literally a pen in Psalm 45:1? When Christ appears in Revelation with a sword coming out of His mouth, do you think Christ literally has a sword hanging out of His mouth?

Why don't we see God's feet, he asks. pitiful, desperate AND funny. Good one. And why don't we pluck our eye out and cut off our hands if they offend God? I think I know what's literal or not.

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

patrick jane said:
Why don't we see God's feet, he asks. pitiful, desperate AND funny. Good one. And why don't we pluck our eye out and cut off our hands if they offend God? I think I know what's literal or not.

Read the rest of my post.

patrick jane · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
Read the rest of my post.

I do believe Christ will have a sword in His mouth, absolutely. WE will see Christ exactly as the Bible tells us. I believe that God is above the earth and the earth IS His footstool. Amen. Obviously, David's tongue was not turned into a pen.

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

patrick jane said:
I do believe Christ will have a sword in His mouth, absolutely. WE will see Christ exactly as the Bible tells us. I believe that God is above the earth and the earth IS His footstool. Amen.

Wow. Then what about how God brought the Israelites out of Egypt? Do you see anywhere in Exodus where they took flight? However, Exodus 19:4 says: "You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how vI bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself." Does this literally mean that God flew the Israelites out of Egypt using an actual Eagle's wings?

How about references to having "a heart of stone"? Do you think some people have a stone in their chest instead of a heart?

patrick jane said:
Obviously, David's tongue was not turned into a pen.

I'm glad you understood the symbolism in at least that verse.

Matthew 24 10 · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
Wow. Then what about how God brought the Israelites out of Egypt? Do you see anywhere in Exodus where they took flight? However, Exodus 19:4 says: "You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how vI bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself." Does this literally mean that God flew the Israelites out of Egypt using an actual Eagle's wings?

How about references to having "a heart of stone"? Do you think some people have a stone in their chest instead of a heart?

I'm glad you understood the symbolism in at least that verse.

Would you bet 1% of your inheritance with me , if earth is sphere you win if it's not then I win since we won't convince each other to change mind anyways let's both wait 60 years , die and then we will find out who was right .

Aldebaran · Mar 4, 2018

Matthew 24 10 said:
Would you bet 1% of your inheritance with me , if earth is sphere you win if it's not then I win since we won't convince each other to change mind anyways let's both wait 60 years , die and then we will find out who was right .

You probably won't even have to wait that long. Space X launched its Falcon Heavy rocket not long ago as a trial for future manned tourist flights around the moon. Rocket Launches and Trips to the Moon We’re Looking Forward To in 2018 That means people other than NASA astronauts will be able to see the earth from above, and can tell you if it's round or flat. However, I'm sure the FE people will be ready and all-too-willing to call them all liars that were paid off by NASA, just as I'm sure your friends on this thread would call you a liar if you yourself flew on one of those rockets and saw for yourself the earth was round and you came back and told everyone what you saw.

patrick jane · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
Wow. Then what about how God brought the Israelites out of Egypt? Do you see anywhere in Exodus where they took flight? However, Exodus 19:4 says: "You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how vI bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself." Does this literally mean that God flew the Israelites out of Egypt using an actual Eagle's wings?

How about references to having "a heart of stone"? Do you think some people have a stone in their chest instead of a heart?

I'm glad you understood the symbolism in at least that verse.

Like I said, I can usually discern pretty good. Can't you?

JacksBratt · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
Perhaps not, but the alternatives being presented make even less sense, and are easily proven to be nonsense. It's been done numerous times already, but that fact is being conveniently ignored.

You keep saying "easily proven to be nonsense" and "numerous times"..

I have yet to have seen any believable rebuttals to any of the main arguments of the FE model.

Even Airy's Failure and the Michelson–Morley experiment fail to prove any movement.

SO...

Just because you state "I told you so" does not mean you told me "anything".

patrick jane · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
You probably won't even have to wait that long. Space X launched its Falcon Heavy rocket not long ago as a trial for future manned tourist flights around the moon. Rocket Launches and Trips to the Moon We’re Looking Forward To in 2018 That means people other than NASA astronauts will be able to see the earth from above, and can tell you if it's round or flat. However, I'm sure the FE people will be ready and all-too-willing to call them all liars that were paid off by NASA, just as I'm sure your friends on this thread would call you a liar if you yourself flew on one of those rockets and saw for yourself the earth was round and you came back and told everyone what you saw.

Oh no, you went there. That is so Fake it's disgusting. Here we go, and I'll post more. :
"If You Believe This, Then There Is No Hope For Humanity"~Fake Space X |Flat Earth

22 Minutes

JacksBratt · Mar 4, 2018

Aldebaran said:
You probably won't even have to wait that long. Space X launched its Falcon Heavy rocket not long ago as a trial for future manned tourist flights around the moon. Rocket Launches and Trips to the Moon We’re Looking Forward To in 2018 That means people other than NASA astronauts will be able to see the earth from above, and can tell you if it's round or flat. However, I'm sure the FE people will be ready and all-too-willing to call them all liars that were paid off by NASA, just as I'm sure your friends on this thread would call you a liar if you yourself flew on one of those rockets and saw for yourself the earth was round and you came back and told everyone what you saw.

Oh, you mean the Tesla Roadster... the one in zero gravity and a complete vacuum but still has it's tires intact... the one where temperatures that fluctuate from minus 148 degrees to plus 248 degrees yet the dash hasn't melted and the windshield has not shattered..... I mean really, Elon Musk himself said that it was no special car.. just an ordinary every day Tesla Roaster with no modifications to go to the harsh environment of space..

His best statement yet, in regards to this was when he stated:

"you can tell it's real because it looks so fake"... Atta boy.

patrick jane · Mar 4, 2018

Listen to your SOUL, not to NASA ♪ ✞

5 Minutes -

Jadis40 · Mar 4, 2018

It's simple astronomy that destroys the flat earth model once and for all.

A flat earth cannot explain why the northern hemi*sphere* has a completely different set of circumpolar constellations from the southern hemi*sphere*. You can't see the southern cross (depicted on the flags of Australia and New Zealand) from Anchorage, Alaska, nor can you see Polaris (the current pole star) from Melbourne, Australia.

There is no conspiracy, and there is no ice wall. There is no firmament either, and the earth is not enclosed in anything. The moon does *not* produce its own light. It reflects the light of the sun. This is elementary school science.

Finally, I really don't care what the "Book of Enoch" says. It's not canon, and I don't recognize it as being inspired.

Biblical, Enclosed Flat Earth and Firmament

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