Bible Banning??? In Christianity???

[Wunderlust]

I have met folks of the Catholic faith who, unfortunately, adhere to that old canon as an excuse to avoid study and reading on their own. They have a Bible, handed down in the family, and not one page has seen the light of day since it was boxed at the printers. I find that sad except that maybe they know something I don't know. Anyway I read the KJV with supplication and prayer before and during, and then after as I digest what I have read. I use it for taking notes during the service and bible study sessions. Unfortunately, I still do not open it and study it enough.

That wasn't an old canon of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church never banned the bible. It's amazing what people will accept when reading online.

 

[ViaCrucis]

At my parent's church, a lot of people use their phones for their Bibles, and watch the notes on the YouVersion Bible app. I haven't seen that in my church, but it certainly is a new development in everyone having a Bible. I do have that app for Bible reading, but I use it outside of services myself.

And I thought projector screens were tacky.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I ALWAYS bring my bible. I dont know how people expect to read and follow the Word without one. Especially if the church doesnt have any spares.

A lot of churches hand out the order of worship for the service, and the Scripture readings are written in them. One benefit of this is also that it means everyone's also reading the same translation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[chevyontheriver]

And I thought projector screens were tacky.

-CryptoLutheran

How can I like your post twice?
I will concede that electric lights, a fire alarm system, and a pipe organ are worthwhile. Maybe a microphone. For the rest, I think technology in church is tacky. Screens? Yuck.

 

[All4Christ]

And I thought projector screens were tacky.

-CryptoLutheran

Yea it was a bit of a surprise going back to visit, and seeing everyone with their phones out. Apparently, there is an option for service notes there as well. The pastor mentioned that we could follow along on the app, so I figured out why everyone had their phones out.

 

[All4Christ]

How can I like your post twice?
I will concede that electric lights, a fire alarm system, and a pipe organ are worthwhile. Maybe a microphone. For the rest, I think technology in church is tacky. Screens? Yuck.

A properly amplified church often doesn't even need a microphone. Of course, microphones are helpful if services are streamed for those who cannot be at services (nursing homes, etc.)

 

[Philip_B]

I have an ap for the daily office from the Church of England. Psalms, Collects and Readings all laid out. I find it very convenient and means I am not muddling around with several books at once. I see that as a good use of technology. However I am not sure that I want to see a procession with thurifer, crucifer, accolytes, sub deacon and deacon holding aloft a iPad during the gradual hymn!

 

[All4Christ]

I have an ap for the daily office from the Church of England. Psalms, Collects and Readings all laid out. I find it very convenient and means I am not muddling around with several books at once. I see that as a good use of technology. However I am not sure that I want to see a procession with thurifer, crucifer, accolytes, sub deacon and deacon holding aloft a iPad during the gradual hymn!

Agreed! I use it often in preparation for church, including the hours, various prayers, ebooks with the Bible and more. I don't feel comfortable using it for the readings in the Church services though - or even for the choir. Honestly, I also leave it in the car since I don't want to chance forgetting to turn off the sound on my phone!!

 

[chevyontheriver]

A properly amplified church often doesn't even need a microphone. Of course, microphones are helpful if services are streamed for those who cannot be at services (nursing homes, etc.)

My church is a Gothic building, long and narrow. It takes some time for the sound to go all the way through the building. Our old sound system consisted of multiple speakers mounted on the columns at intervals from front to back. In the back you ended up hearing first the nearest speakers then ever so slightly later the rest of the speakers set by set. It sounded like mud. The building was designed for someone with a loud voice to use their loud voice. We ended up with one large speaker so the sound could travel naturally and not have those nasty artificial echos. The speaker is ugly, and is suspended high in the front center of the church.

 

[All4Christ]

My church is a Gothic building, long and narrow. It takes some time for the sound to go all the way through the building. Our old sound system consisted of multiple speakers mounted on the columns at intervals from front to back. In the back you ended up hearing first the nearest speakers then ever so slightly later the rest of the speakers set by set. It sounded like mud. The building was designed for someone with a loud voice to use their loud voice. We ended up with one large speaker so the sound could travel naturally and not have those nasty artificial echos. The speaker is ugly, and is suspended high in the front center of the church.

We are almost finished building our own church, and our choir will be rehearsing there this week for our first service in the new building. Before the new building, we have been in a condo building...which totally traps sound. It will be wonderful to hear the acoustics of the new church!

 

[thecolorsblend]

I frequently use the Laudate app. My FSSP has a general missal booklet but obviously it won't have the readings. I sometimes attend a Novus Ordo parish and they'll have an Order of the Mass which says what the readings are but won't include the readings themselves.

I could tote something extra specifically for the readings... or I could take the easy way out and use the Laudate app. So that's what I choose to do.

I got the hairy eyeball from a few elderly parishioners at the NO parish once. I guess they thought I was playing on my phone or something during the Liturgy of the Word. They don't seem to care about people wearing immodest clothes to Mass but, man, what I was doing was Double-Plus Ungood.

But in that same Mass, by what I assume is coincidence, Father talked about the Laudate app during his homily. He's a major fan of it and recommended it to the entire parish. I noticed the elderly people connect the dots on what I'd been doing earlier and start shifting around in their pew rather uncomfortably.

My view is that as long as you're not being disruptive, it's okay to use it during Mass. But after the readings, the phone gets switched off again, obviously. I don't seek anybody else's approval in using the app so the fact that I obviously don't have it really doesn't bother me.

 

[All4Christ]

I frequently use the Laudate app. My FSSP has a general missal booklet but obviously it won't have the readings. I sometimes attend a Novus Ordo parish and they'll have an Order of the Mass which says what the readings are but won't include the readings themselves.

I could tote something extra specifically for the readings... or I could take the easy way out and use the Laudate app. So that's what I choose to do.

I got the hairy eyeball from a few elderly parishioners at the NO parish once. I guess they thought I was playing on my phone or something during the Liturgy of the Word. They don't seem to care about people wearing immodest clothes to Mass but, man, what I was doing was Double-Plus Ungood.

But in that same Mass, by what I assume is coincidence, Father talked about the Laudate app during his homily. He's a major fan of it and recommended it to the entire parish. I noticed the elderly people connect the dots on what I'd been doing earlier and start shifting around in their pew rather uncomfortably.

My view is that as long as you're not being disruptive, it's okay to use it during Mass. But after the readings, the phone gets switched off again, obviously. I don't seek anybody else's approval in using the app so the fact that I obviously don't have it really doesn't bother me.

I can appreciate that. For me personally, I don't feel comfortable using my phone especially, partially because I forget to turn it off, though I did once bring a tablet for all the readings at a Holy Thursday service (not in front) since it was less disruptive to flip between passages that way than flipping through the pages (we go through the gospels of the passion and many OT readings). I just kept it in front of the service book, and didn't disrupt anyone. I don't like adding much unneeded technology to services though, if at all possible.

 

[PanDeVida]

Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should not be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.- The Church Council of Toulouse 1229

No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days, so that they may be burned.- The Church Council of Tarragona 1234 AD

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. ... - Psalms 1

How can we expect to be blessed by God when the source of his blessings is banned???

Rocky, you have rocky information Re: the Catholic Church, the reason why it was prohibited to take the bible from the Church is that fact that there was no printing press at that time, the bible/scripture was hand written and therefore being hand written it took very, very along time to hand print the Old and New Testament.

Rocky, correct me if I am wrong, your Pentecostal church began in 1901? However, if your Pentecostal church, began at the time the Catholic Church did over 2000 years ago, without the invention of the printing press your Pentacostal hierarchy/pastors would have not wanted their congregation to take the bible to thier homes as well.

Rocky And another thing that proves you wrong, is the fact that I am a Catholic, and I have a Catholic Bible right beside me. Amen Amen

 

[thecolorsblend]

Rocky, you have rocky information Re: the Catholic Church, the reason why it was prohibited to take the bible from the Church is that fact that there was no printing press at that time, the bible/scripture was hand written and therefore being hand written it took very, very along time to hand print the Old and New Testament.

Rocky, correct me if I am wrong, your Pentecostal church began in 1901? However, if your Pentecostal church, began at the time the Catholic Church did over 2000 years ago, without the invention of the printing press your Pentacostal hierarchy/pastors would have not wanted their congregation to take the bible to thier homes as well.

Rocky And another thing that proves you wrong, is the fact that I am a Catholic, and I have a Catholic Bible right beside me. Amen Amen

Also, the Church has said that graces, blessings and I think occasionally even indulgences (or partial ones) can be obtained by reading the scriptures... which would've been an odd thing for them to say if they prohibited private ownership of Bibles.

 

[PanDeVida]

Also, the Church has said that graces, blessings and I think occasionally even indulgences (or partial ones) can be obtained by reading the scriptures... which would've been an odd thing for them to say if they prohibited private ownership of Bibles.

Amen Amen

 

[bbbbbbb]

A lot of churches hand out the order of worship for the service, and the Scripture readings are written in them. One benefit of this is also that it means everyone's also reading the same translation.

-CryptoLutheran

That is one improvement that I have noticed in many Lutheran churches. As a non-Lutheran I have visited Lutheran churches from time to time. When I was younger I was perplexed by the liturgy, but now the entire service is written out in detail so I can easily follow it. I also had this experience at St. Louis Catholic Cathedral in St. Louis, Missouri.

 

[bbbbbbb]

My church is a Gothic building, long and narrow. It takes some time for the sound to go all the way through the building. Our old sound system consisted of multiple speakers mounted on the columns at intervals from front to back. In the back you ended up hearing first the nearest speakers then ever so slightly later the rest of the speakers set by set. It sounded like mud. The building was designed for someone with a loud voice to use their loud voice. We ended up with one large speaker so the sound could travel naturally and not have those nasty artificial echos. The speaker is ugly, and is suspended high in the front center of the church.

There was a specific reason that your church building was constructed that way. It was not intended for the effective conveyance of a human voice to the congregation. In fact, at that time the mass was celebrated facing the altar at the east end of the church and virtually nobody except the altar boys could hear what was being said. The primary purpose was the worship of God, not preaching, with singing to reverberate and echo the praises of God, repeating it until it finally faded away.

After Vatican II all was changed. Churches were remodeled with the altar as close as reasonably possible to the center of the congregation and Latin was no longer the language of the mass. Communication in native languages was emphasized with a new emphasis on teaching. Also, the restrictions on Bible-reading by the laity were relaxed.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Also, the restrictions on Bible-reading by the laity were relaxed.

What "restrictions" would those be?

 

[chevyontheriver]

There was a specific reason that your church building was constructed that way. It was not intended for the effective conveyance of a human voice to the congregation. In fact, at that time the mass was celebrated facing the altar at the east end of the church and virtually nobody except the altar boys could hear what was being said. The primary purpose was the worship of God, not preaching, with singing to reverberate and echo the praises of God, repeating it until it finally faded away.

After Vatican II all was changed. Churches were remodeled with the altar as close as reasonably possible to the center of the congregation and Latin was no longer the language of the mass. Communication in native languages was emphasized with a new emphasis on teaching. Also, the restrictions on Bible-reading by the laity were relaxed.

Having met old retired Catholic pastors with booming voices, I think your story is not quite accurate. Public speaking in an unamplified building is indeed possible, but it requires the ability to speak loudly and clearly. The sound originates in one spot and travels the length of the building. It does so clearly. The speaker needs to modulate his speech to account for echo but it works well. Today we have loudspeakers, better only if done right. When the power goes out, rarely but it happens, the priest can and does get himself heard.

You are right that a Gothic building is made for music and chant. It works well for that. But it was never not for preaching.

 

[Philip_B]

I am not sure that this is correct. In a Cathedral I used to clean years ago, I was very aware that there was a big difference in the audibility of speakers in the Pulpit Lectern and Sanctuary areas brought about by rolling the carpet out down the isle. I suspect Gothic architecture is excellent for the transmission of voice, however when we fill the space with cushions, rugs and furniture and things that absorb sound we work against the building.

The reason for the pulpit being elevated was the enhance the prospect of the preachers voice being carried, as well as to enable a visual contact with the one delivering the message.

I still recall evensong some forty years ago, when as the rector began to chant the third collect 'Lighten our darkness, we beseech thee, O Lord;' there was an enormous crack of thunder and the entire suburb was plunged into darkness.