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Whales sometimes die? Or beach themselves? Besides it's just an idea I have knocking around in my mind. Not putting a lot of faith into it. But it could be the flood evidence I think. Regardless of skepticism.How does a whale drown in a flood?
That's OK.. if you believe in Christ, you are saved... Just because you don't believe that God told the truth about the flood,...
What, exactly, did He say to you?God did not say that the Flood was planetary. At least not to me.
We are both talking about an ancient text given by people and transmitted by people.What, exactly, did He say to you?
What do you mean "ancient text given by people and transmitted by people?"We are both talking about an ancient text given by people and transmitted by people.
We must learn what they meant, not what YEC preachers think it means.
When you try to apply science to biblical stories there are a lot of fallacies and they are hard to avoid. The first is the assumption that you actually know enough to analyze a story.
The first thing you run into in the flood story is that there is no physical evidence, but tribes all around the world recorded a flood and they all agreed on all the details. Science or no science, they all saw something, and they all saw the same thing.
Then you learn about China. The name means "middle kingdom". Middle of what? The Chinese saw the tree of life in the north sky and the sea of confusion in the south sky. The Earth had equatorial rings in those days, and spokes in the rings made it look like a muddy sea. It was observed and recorded by other civilizations too.
People lived almost a thousand years before the flood, but not more than 120 after. It is pretty clear that the tree of life was taken down at that time, and the collapsing sea of confusion looked like rainfall.
Seashells and fossils on mountains? Think of something else!
Did tribes around the world really agree on all of the details? Did other tribes and nation's regard Noah by name? Or did they talk about two of every animal traversing the planet to the ark?
Or were their stories limited to large scale floods without particular details beyond there being a massive amount of water?
You referred to the Chinese. Do the Chinese describe Noah and a flood story in which two of every animal went to an ark?
What do you mean "ancient text given by people and transmitted by people?"
Check post # 30..
Adam knew Methuselah.
Methuselah knew Shem.
Shem knew Issac.
That is not a lot of "transmitting" if that's what you meant.
Shem knew Issac... think about that.. the son of Noah who survived the flood.. knew Issac.
One could argue with your logic that we don't need to learn what Old earth atheistic Darwinian theistic evolutionist preachers think it means..
So, that argument is just "he said... she said".
It is well known that there were several versions of the flood story. Detractors tend to assume that whoever wrote the bible copied them, ignoring the other interpretation, that they all witnessed the same thing.
No, they did not use the same names or place the ark on the same mountain. They weren't even speaking the same language.
So, I take it that you don't see the canon as the actual words of God. Or...think God was lying when He said :Its year 2019 now. We are different people with different vocabulary and mindset. Their world is not our world:
They were not talking about the blue rotating spherical planet when saying "all the earth, all the mountains under heaven"etc. They were talking about the land they were living it, it was the whole world for them. They did not know there is Australia or Greenland, too.
The Mt St helends canyon is derived of volcanic Ash layers, not brittle faulted rock. Of course ash can erode much more readily than quartzite.
Polystrate fossils to not cross cut formations of various ages (just strata of like ages, of individual formations).
The rest of your response is too vague to address.
KomatiiteBIF, you have, in your avatar that you are a Christian. Why would you compare these stories, to those of the Bible, which is the true word of God?The differences between flood stories goes far beyond just using different languages. The stories involve different people, different miracles, different God's etc.
This runs contrary to your statement that they "agree on all the details".
"Upon the insistence of Four Mountains, and over Yao's initial hesitation, the person Yao finally consented to appoint in charge of controlling the flood was Gun, the Prince of Chong, who was a distant relative of Yao's through common descent from the Yellow Emperor.[12]"
"According to the main mythological tradition, Gun's plan of flood control was through the use of a miraculously continuously self-expanding soil, Xirang.[13] Gun chose to obtain the Xirang by stealing it from the Supreme Divinity, which he did; however, the Supreme Divinity became quite angered at this importunity..[14] Year in and year out, many times, and to great extents; Gun applied the magical Xirang earth in attempt to block and barricade the flood waters with dams, dikes, and embankments (which he built with the special powers of the magic soil). However, Gun was never able to abate the problems of the Great Flood. Whether his failure to abate the flood was due to divine wrath or to engineering defects remains an unanswered question – although one pointed out over two thousand years ago by Qu Yuan, in his "Heavenly Questions". [15]"
"
Even after nine years of the efforts of Gun, the flood continued to rage on, leading to the increase of all sorts of social disorders. The administration of the empire was becoming increasingly difficult; so, accordingly, at this point, Yao offered to resign the throne in favor of his special adviser(s), Four Mountains: however, Four Mountains declined, and instead recommended Shun – another distant relative to Yao through the Yellow Emperor; but one who was living in obscurity, despite his royal lineage.[16]
Yao proceeded to put Shun through a series of tests, beginning with marrying his two daughters to Shun and ending by sending him down from the mountains to the plains below where Shun had to face fierce winds, thunder, and rain.[17] After passing all of Yao's tests, not the least of which being establishing and continuing a state of marital harmony together with Yao's two daughters, Shun took on administrative responsibilities as co-emperor.[18] Among these responsibilities, Shun had to deal with the Great Flood and its associated disruptions, especially in light of the fact that Yao's reluctant decision to appoint Gun to handle the problem had failed to fix the situation, despite having been working on it for the previous nine years. Shun took steps over the next four years to reorganize the empire, in such a way as to solve immediate problems and to put the imperial authority in a better position to deal with the flood and its effects.
Although Shun's organization (or reorganization) of the flooded and increasingly flooded lands into zhouor islands (the political ancestors of the modern zhouor provinces, both of which may be written with the same character, 州) alleviated some of the administrative difficulties as a work around to various problems, the fact remained that despite the additional four years of effort, Gun still had not only failed to achieve any success towards solving the main problem of the ongoing flooding, but the water even kept on rising. Gun insisted on staying the course with the dikes, insisting that despite the overwhelming failure so far that the people work even harder and to continue to build more and higher.[19]Not only that, but Gun questioned the legitimacy of Shun as a ruler due to his modest background.[20]"
"
Gun's demiseEdit
With Gun's overwhelming failure to control the flood waters and his questioning of the legitimacy of Shun's rule, he became labeled as an intransigent. Accordingly, as part of his administrative reforms, Shun had Gun banished to Feather Mountain. Accounts vary considerably about the details of Gun's demise; but, in any case, the sources seem to agree that he met the end of his human existence at Feather Mountain (although again accounts vary as to whether this end was death, through execution by Zhurong, or through a metamorphic transformation into — depending on account — a yellow bear, a three-footed tortoise, or a yellow dragon.[29])"
"Yu tried a different approach to the project of flood control; which in the end having achieved success, earned Yu renown throughout Chinese history, in which the Gun-Yu Great Flood is commonly referred to as "Great Yu Controls the Waters" (Chinese: 大禹治水; pinyin: Dà Yǔ Zhì Shuǐ). Yu's approach seems to have involved an approach more oriented toward drainage and less towards containment with dams and dikes. According to the more fancily embellished versions of the story it was also necessary for him to subdue various supernatural beings as well as recruit the assistance of others, for instance a channel-digging dragon and a giant mud-hauling tortoise (or turtle)."
This story is far different from the Christian global flood story. It involves different people, different miracles, different Gods. It really is a completely different story. The only thing it shares in common, is that there was a lot of water spread across the land at some time in the last 4,000 years.
KomatiiteBIF, you have, in your avatar that you are a Christian. Why would you compare these stories, to those of the Bible, which is the true word of God?
Is it not enough that every culture has a story of a massive flood... then.. that our creator told us exactly what took place?
These other stories may be passed on down over generations. However, as I stated, Shem lived long enough to know Issac.... This is not a story corrupted by generations of errors and mistakes.
From your handle here, Komatiite, I can guess that you have some geological background. This field is one that is steeped in the old earth. Only those willing to take condescension and ridicule ever come out and state a biblical view of this science.
Only those willing to take condescension and ridicule ever come out and state a biblical view of this science.
Do you have a response?
Do you have a response?
Yes, but why bother? You can refute anything by simply refusing to believe it. If you don't believe something it is nonsense by definition.
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