Beware of wrong teaching

[pdfiddler]

Nadiine

You need to get some sleep.

 

[Nadiine]

Nadiine

You need to get some sleep.

Why do you say this?

 

[pdfiddler]

It sounds a little like ranting.

 

[Nadiine]

It sounds a little like ranting.

If my reply sounds like ranting, then why didn't you ask the thread starter if he needed some sleep?
Did you read the OP? Here an excerpt in case you missed it:

Christians. Your soul is at risk.

 

[Nadiine]

In the political realm do we simply turn a blind eye to the worldly, or do we when given the opportunity, intervene and use our judgement to descern good from evil and do what is in our ability to stand against wickedness?
Let's look....

God has given Dominion of this earth to mankind, and has instructed us to subdue it. That means to bring it under our authority and control.
Remember, Adam and his descendents are called the children of God.
That is who has the authorization from God to excercise dominion over this earth.
The sons of darkness, the wicked ones, have ussurped this authority and have convinced many that this world belongs to them.
It does not!


The sons of Adam have "godlike" knowlegde and understanding of Good and Evil, and the ability to descern and exercise judgements based upon that knowledge.



God asks us, his children, "How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked?"
How long will we stand by and do nothing even though we posess both the descernment, and the authority as the "gods" of our dominion, to intervene, take back control, and do what we know to be right?

God says that He is standing in the congregation of the mighty (His Church, The Body of Christ). And that He is present among us "the gods of our dominion" as judgements are passed. But we are judging unjustly, we are accepting these wicked persons.....God asks, How long will we continue to do this?
When we as a congregation make it our choice to do nothing, then God will do nothing.....we have dominion, it is for us to subdue, to bring under our control....not God. Yes, God can do it, but that is not God's Will.
God will work with us and through us, but not for us.
God is not our servant, We are His servants, We do the tasks with God's assistance and Authority from Him.
God is simply waiting for us to step up so that He can work His way through us. We are the Body, We are the Arms, The Legs, The Hands, The Feet, with which to carry out His Works.



Ask yourself.....who did the Word of God come to?
Have you recieved The Word into your life?
Can Scripture be broken?
Are Christians said to be called the children of God?
Are you a part of the Congregation of the Mighty?
Then I ask you...
How long will you continue to judge unjustly?
How long will you continue to accept wicked politicians with ungodly and evil agendas as your leaders?
Arise and Defend the poor and fatherless:
Arise and do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Arise and Deliver the poor and needy:
Arise and Remove them out of the hand of the wicked.
Our Worldly Political Leaders, they know not, neither will they understand for they walk in darkness:
Are not the foundations of the earth out of course?
Is there not disorder and inequity in our Government Policies, both domestic and international?
"We The People...."
"Government Of The People, By The People, and For The People"
Do we not possess the authority and the moral necessity to hold our leadership accountable?
What they do, they do in our name, under our sanction, supported by our vote.
"Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
Stand in One, United Voice, and VOTE.....
Descern and pass judgement upon that which is wicked.

Excellent analysis tied together using scripture.

 

[Nadiine]

I believe you may be very correct. For instance, this government of ours has ongoing normal relations with China, and some trade with Viet Nam and the Muslim nations. In China and in Viet Nam and some of the Muslim nations are many, many Christian martyrs. They are imprisoned, starved and tortured, and even executed or just plain murdered. Does our wonderful right or left wing partys do anything about it? NO. It is never even a subject of discussion.

So what is YOUR solution to us dealing with the problems? You say they do nothing, but I'd like to know what your solution is to stop it exactly?

The world community isn't what it was decades ago, where we just 'go in & take care of business'.... you cannot just go & start sanctioning anywhere you please; you have a world system that has to agree to it now.
The govt. (and private orgs. & individuals) HAVE TRIED to help the Sudan situation but the world community is supressing it.
For the most part, our hands are completely TIED until other countries agree to do anything. That's a fact.

Long gone are the days where you just handle your own issues & take matters into your own hands - it's got to be thru the UN (united nations). & Look at all it's taken just to deal with Iran!

And, how DO you rescue innocent people from Genocide? Fly out to china & nicely ask them to change their entire communist system?
War-military might, retaliation, opposition are what you need. (and, you need elected officials who make the decisions to go in militarily to stop the murdererings & persecution).

God used plagues & the Red Sea in Egypt - that sure got their attn. & freed the slaves. (mainly becuz God was Israel's protector & they had no army to retaliate with.. HE used might).

 

[mont974x4]

God does not change. He has always used war and capital punishment to exact His justice and He has always had godly men serve during those times.

 

[seekthetruth909]

And where does the church get all high and mighty. If they want to kick the gays in the teeth outside the church, how about all the divorced people inside the church. Why are they not booting them out? A whole lot more text banning divorce can be found than can be found concerning gays.

quote]

Excellent point! I have often wondered about this myself. A pastor I knew made some observations concerning this: In public Christian demonstrations against gays many of those participating are divorced for unbiblical reasons and are according to Jesus committing adultery. He also said many pastors avoid preaching on this issue [along with gluttony which is another sin churches avoid] because they don’t want to offend their members. Instead they preach on different sins that non-members commit. His whole point was: Why do we make a big deal about the sins non-Christians commit but avoid other sins that Christians commit? Shouldn’t churches be more concerned with their members taking responsibility for their actions and growing more spiritual? I guess it is always easier to judge the house next door than your own house. If we do decide to take a judgmental attitude why not judge all sins including our own?

God Bless all and have a good night.


Matthew 7:3
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

 

[seekthetruth909]

Well, what is FAITH without works? How do we claim faith, then NOT DO anything?
By the way, THIS IS YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION/ spin on scripture. The bible doesn't SAY this.
You've taken some verses to mean this because it's your opinion.

So let me get this right, YOU think 'faith' means, just PRAY, and God will fix it supernaturally WITHOUT USING ANY OF HIS PEOPLE?

So, as the Good Samaritan story goes, we as Christians should just pass by the broken, starving, poor beggar laying by the road to say, "sorry, I can't help you, I can't lift a finger becuz I HAVE FAITH THAT GOD WILL FEED & CLOTHE YOU".

Don't be involved, just expect God to supernaturally fix everything WITHOUT YOUR INVOLVEMENT?
Did it occur to you THAT GOD USES US IN HIS PLANS?

We are His soldiers (as Paul aptly puts it). He saved us so that we would work against evil down here, and be involved in all aspects of life.
Are you aware that the Bible uses WAR terminology in spiritual "battle"? God sure seems to think we're in a war...

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. ​

I see this mindset too with giving Offerings or tithes to the church... some say, "God doesn't NEED our money"....well, I'd like to know how much gets done without ANY money in our system where money is used.
God had them bring in tithes & offerings in BOTH Bible testaments, BUT TODAY, HE MIRACULOUSLY DOESN'T NEED US to give?
Again, don't DO anything, just pray it gets done. (let someone else do it)​

What am I doing to myself?
I claim that they want the country run like Sodom & Gomorrah... and want to kick God OUT of all society (which the ACLU is in the process of). If you can't properly define judging, then please don't accuse others of it.
I CAN judge that homosexuality is moral sin.

They aren't OUR business??? AS WE RAISE FAMILIES IN A SOCIETY LIKE SODOM & GOMORRAH? While we watch people's lives fall apart due to decay of sin??
THAT'S NOT OUR BUSINESS? If they're none of our business, then we shouldn't bother to PRAY for them either.

What is our business as believers? Cowering in our little houses while the LOST run the world for us becuz we're too 'holy' to get our hands roughed up?
Have you even read what happens to society when corruption takes it over? Read all the people crying out to God for help & for justice as they're lives are ruined by injustice (which we already see in our court & educational systems). It effects us all.


Yes, He does... did you ever stop to think that those who disagree with you, AREN'T THE BLIND ONES?
(MOST people who use that verse never stop to think that they may actually be the one the verse is about!).


So, I need to personally go FIX every church that you deem "bad", before I can call SIN what it is?
I AM THE CHURCH - God's people are the true church.
I solve the problem by keeping my OWN life right before God.



ARE YOU IN SUPPORT OF HOMOSEXUALITY? You sound supportive of their lifestyle.

Before you use verses on wrongful judging & the blind leading the blind, please make sure it's not yourself first.

Good point! But the question is, which type of action?


James 2
Faith and Deeds 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

I John 3:16-18, "We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little chidren, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth."

James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.


Matt 25:44 "Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[Nadiine]

Excellent point! I have often wondered about this myself. A pastor I knew made some observations concerning this: In public Christian demonstrations against gays many of those participating are divorced for unbiblical reasons and are according to Jesus committing adultery. He also said many pastors avoid preaching on this issue [along with gluttony which is another sin churches avoid] because they don’t want to offend their members. Instead they preach on different sins that non-members commit. His whole point was: Why do we make a big deal about the sins non-Christians commit but avoid other sins that Christians commit? Shouldn’t churches be more concerned with their members taking responsibility for their actions and growing more spiritual? I guess it is always easier to judge the house next door than your own house. If we do decide to take a judgmental attitude why not judge all sins including our own?

RE: this post:

Originally Posted by marke

And where does the church get all high and mighty. If they want to kick the gays in the teeth outside the church, how about all the divorced people inside the church. Why are they not booting them out? A whole lot more text banning divorce can be found than can be found concerning gays.

First of all, both your points have some merit. However, one reason (at least in the USA) that homosexuality is the 'hot button' issue, is because of the homosexual community's strong fight to get Gay marriage legalized.

It isn't just random & arbitrary that the church "picks out this sin" to point at so they can ignore the one's theyr'e guilty of (we can't know their motives behind it).
The gay community is uprising and heavily lobbying to be openly accepted in society which brings up serious moral concerns that effect us all.

So I don't agree that they're just randomly picking out THIS SIN out of hat so they can ignore others they might be doing - I think it pertains to the current moral/political situation right now.

(to marke specifically)-
And, lets also not claim the church is "kicking their teeth in". That's just false & extreme. To call sin what it is, IS NOT kicking in teeth; anymore than telling a Christian that 'gossip' is sin is 'kicking in their teeth'.
Preaching the whole truth of God is a Shepherd/teacher's mandate from God. Homosexuality included.

Remember, Jesus came in LOVE and because of His teachings (on issues of HIS day, ie Religiosity), He was called a devil, a drunkard & blasphemer - with threats on His life by enemies from all sides.

Religious hypocrisy is JUST as sinful as homosexuality; yet by reading your posts, you have NO problem correcting THAT sin in the church as YOU see it, right?
It's only OK when YOU support it, if others hit on your 'sore spot', it's NOT ok anymore... (it's 'kicking teeth in')​

See the problem??

The Truth is, yes, WE ALL SIN, but THAT IS NO LICENSE TO CONDONE ANY OF IT.

With that said, I agree, ALL sins need to be touched on.
And with that said, I'd like to ask if you actually visit ALL the churches TO KNOW THEY AREN'T POINTING OUT that remarriage after unlawful divorce is adultery? Or gluttony & gossip is sin? etc etc.

Mine sure have and I'm glad. I hear Radio & Tv evangilists constantly relaying the sins Christians commit... CONSTANTLY.
But equally wrong, are all the many churches who REFUSE their responsiblity as Ambassadors for Christ WHO IGNORE ALL TEACHINGS ON ANY SIN, as if to call something sin, means we're judging & claiming to be perfect (hypocrites).
(all the negative stuff they don't want to have to say - just make em 'feel good')...

Either way, the fact that any church calls homosexuality sin IS RIGHT - it's the truth of God even if they were unbalanced in preaching against other known sins. (if they preach that truth in seething hatred & condemnation, then that's another issue; but MOST Godly churches do not).

Find me a PERFECT church where no one has 1 complaint about something or someone​

 

[Always in His Presence]

Christians. Your soul is at risk. Joel Hunter is the new President of the "Christian Coalition" and he said he hopes to make the Christian Coalition "more of a grass-roots organization so that we can mobilize every Christian in America to have a political involvement as a part of their normal spiritual growth." This is really deadly wrong teaching according to New Testament scripture and a good reason to ask yourself if the "Christian Right" are leading their followers to Heaven or hell. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to discern right from wrong and warns time and time again not to follow blindly. There is a scriptural problem with Christians standing for or against issues of the world in that the dead don’t concern themselves with issues of the world. It’s a matter of self preservation. Correct New Testament scripture says Christians should be dead to the world allowing God to be in control. Yet the accumulators (how you know them), these ministers of misinformation whose unsubstantiated doctrine blows with the wind encourage their followers to do these very things; the very things that Jesus warns will destroy your soul. Example. The parable of the seeds, Matthew 13:22 and repeated again in Luke 8:14, shows the ministers of misinformation are deadly wrong: involvement with the world causes you to lose your salvation. These ministers of error say you can’t lose your salvation and encourage you to vote their way, condemn those they don’t like, seek riches (just like them) and involve yourself in issues of the world. In this parable, Jesus shows this to be flat out wrong teaching. Deadly to your soul even. Read the scripture yourself. Jesus says get out of the world, the "Christian Right" says get more involved. Who are you going to follow?

I would personally like to know why after this diatrobe you openly show yourself active in politics by posting this thread?

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=29236377#post29236377

Just how many shares of Halliburton stock does Cheney Have?

A no bid contract. That's handy. Talk about pull.

The stock price (code: HAL) goes from about $5.00/share before the war to $40/share at the beginning of this year. Not a bad profit for killing your children (not Cheney's kids, yours).

If you were a CEO of Halliburton for ten years (or so), how many stock options do you think you could accumulate over that time?

Clinton was investigated for an affair with an adult. Cheney and Bush are responsible for attacking a country that didn't attack us first and killing and destroying thousands and thousands of people.

Shouldn't we the people see how they profited by their policy decisions. Their actions are a little more serious than a extramarital affair.

War profiteering is a nasty thing. We know W's brother is involved with a company helping other companies gain contracts in Iraq, what is it we don't know?

Let's find out.

God bless.

Have you lost your Salvation? or are those rules only for political positions you do not agree with?

 

[Nadiine]

I would personally like to know why after this diatrobe you openly show yourself active in politics by posting this thread?

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=29236377#post29236377



Have you lost your Salvation? or are those rules only for political positions you do not agree with?

Interesting find Balance. Thanks for the info.

In my opinion, being against a politician is being politically motivated or active; only in the opposite direction.

Nice catch.

 

[seekthetruth909]

RE: this post:
[/i]

First of all, both your points have some merit. However, one reason (at least in the USA) that homosexuality is the 'hot button' issue, is because of the homosexual community's strong fight to get Gay marriage legalized.

It isn't just random & arbitrary that the church "picks out this sin" to point at so they can ignore the one's theyr'e guilty of (we can't know their motives behind it).
The gay community is uprising and heavily lobbying to be openly accepted in society which brings up serious moral concerns that effect us all.

So I don't agree that they're just randomly picking out THIS SIN out of hat so they can ignore others they might be doing - I think it pertains to the current moral/political situation right now.

(to marke specifically)-
And, lets also not claim the church is "kicking their teeth in". That's just false & extreme. To call sin what it is, IS NOT kicking in teeth; anymore than telling a Christian that 'gossip' is sin is 'kicking in their teeth'.
Preaching the whole truth of God is a Shepherd/teacher's mandate from God. Homosexuality included.

Remember, Jesus came in LOVE and because of His teachings (on issues of HIS day, ie Religiosity), He was called a devil, a drunkard & blasphemer - with threats on His life by enemies from all sides.

Religious hypocrisy is JUST as sinful as homosexuality; yet by reading your posts, you have NO problem correcting THAT sin in the church as YOU see it, right?
It's only OK when YOU support it, if others hit on your 'sore spot', it's NOT ok anymore... (it's 'kicking teeth in')​

See the problem??

The Truth is, yes, WE ALL SIN, but THAT IS NO LICENSE TO CONDONE ANY OF IT.

With that said, I agree, ALL sins need to be touched on.
And with that said, I'd like to ask if you actually visit ALL the churches TO KNOW THEY AREN'T POINTING OUT that remarriage after unlawful divorce is adultery? Or gluttony & gossip is sin? etc etc.

Mine sure have and I'm glad. I hear Radio & Tv evangilists constantly relaying the sins Christians commit... CONSTANTLY.
But equally wrong, are all the many churches who REFUSE their responsiblity as Ambassadors for Christ WHO IGNORE ALL TEACHINGS ON ANY SIN, as if to call something sin, means we're judging & claiming to be perfect (hypocrites).
(all the negative stuff they don't want to have to say - just make em 'feel good')...

Either way, the fact that any church calls homosexuality sin IS RIGHT - it's the truth of God even if they were unbalanced in preaching against other known sins. (if they preach that truth in seething hatred & condemnation, then that's another issue; but MOST Godly churches do not).

Find me a PERFECT church where no one has 1 complaint about something or someone​

I don't agree with homosexuality but I believe we should show more love and compassion than hate towards them. [No reference to you] There is one church in the US where members attend funerals of homosexual with signs saying that the dead person is burning in hell.

The Philippines is the largest Christian country in the world and divorce there is illegal in most cases. In America divorce is legal for any reason. Following your logic, if we should protest against gay marriage becoming legal, why don't we protest to make divorce illegal in most cases, like it was a hundred years ago, when America as a country had stronger Christian values.

Anyhow you have brought up some interesting points for discussion. I will start another thread on the topic. Thank you for your input.

God Bless

 

[seekthetruth909]

I would personally like to know why after this diatrobe you openly show yourself active in politics by posting this thread?

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=29236377#post29236377



Have you lost your Salvation? or are those rules only for political positions you do not agree with?

Discussing politics relating to the bible and paticipating in politics is not the same. We are all here to try to understand God's Word better and to help each other gain wisdom. Marke may come across a little strong at times but I believe he is sincere like yourself in having a better understanding of the will of God.
God Bless

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

 

[Nadiine]

I don't agree with homosexuality but I believe we should show more love and compassion than hate towards them. [No reference to you] There is one church in the US where members attend funerals of homosexual with signs saying that the dead person is burning in hell.

The Philippines is the largest Christian country in the world and divorce there is illegal in most cases. In America divorce is legal for any reason. Following your logic, if we should protest against gay marriage becoming legal, why don't we protest to make divorce illegal in most cases, like it was a hundred years ago, when America as a country had stronger Christian values.

Anyhow you have brought up some interesting points for discussion. I will start another thread on the topic. Thank you for your input.
God Bless

I agree with you!

I dont' think Christians should be picketing with ANY anti gay propaganda whatsoever. It just makes us look like angry religious kooks. There are much better ways to get our messages out there - messages of love & hope (in Christ).

& I know those funeral crashers you're talking about. But look at their spirit! "you shall know them by their fruit".
They don't just hate the sin, they hate the people as well. They were even threatening to crash the funerals of the poor Amish children recently with signs that had horrible things to say about their little daughters who were being buried.
OH LORD how can people be so hatefilled (in the name of Christ)?
They give legitimate people like us bad names when we proclaim truth in love.

In casual church sermons, or in casual conversations, it's not wrong to say it's wrong when the issue comes up. But hatefilled tangents with mocking? I'm with you, that isn't Godly at all. God sure hasn't led me to be that way (towards any type of person in any type of sin).

Healthy rebuke is fine when warrented & fitting but we don't have to beat the issue to death.

peace

 

[seekthetruth909]

I agree with you!

I dont' think Christians should be picketing with ANY anti gay propaganda whatsoever. It just makes us look like angry religious kooks. There are much better ways to get our messages out there - messages of love & hope (in Christ).

& I know those funeral crashers you're talking about. But look at their spirit! "you shall know them by their fruit".
They don't just hate the sin, they hate the people as well. They were even threatening to crash the funerals of the poor Amish children recently with signs that had horrible things to say about their little daughters who were being buried.
OH LORD how can people be so hatefilled (in the name of Christ)?
They give legitimate people like us bad names when we proclaim truth in love.

In casual church sermons, or in casual conversations, it's not wrong to say it's wrong when the issue comes up. But hatefilled tangents with mocking? I'm with you, that isn't Godly at all. God sure hasn't led me to be that way (towards any type of person in any type of sin).

Healthy rebuke is fine when warrented & fitting but we don't have to beat the issue to death.

peace

Excellent point!

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Christians in democracies have a moral obligation to get involved and support the moral side of the issues and those candidates which have the courage to stand up for what is right.

Yours in Christ.

 

[Nadiine]

Christians in democracies have a moral obligation to get involved and support the moral side of the issues and those candidates which have the courage to stand up for what is right.

Yours in Christ.

I can't agree more - we are obligated to vote for what we know is morally righteous. I do believe it's an obligation as a Christian to promote what is right.

I guess if Jesus had that type of mentality, He'd of stayed in Heaven & not bothered coming down to change anything at the cross?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Discussing politics relating to the bible and paticipating in politics is not the same.

Granted - but I am not the person who said this:

There is a scriptural problem with Christians standing for or against issues of the world in that the dead don’t concern themselves with issues of the world.

and this:

involvement with the world causes you to lose your salvation

Tell me - does his thread about the vice president have to do with the world or scripture?

 

[Nadiine]

Granted - but I am not the person who said this:

to this quote:

Originally Posted by seekthetruth909
Discussing politics relating to the bible and paticipating in politics is not the same.

my original post to Balance who found the political discussion by marke:

In my opinion, being against a politician is being politically motivated or active; only in the opposite direction.

When Marke comes to Christian forums to motivate Christians NOT to vote, that IS political activity (in rallying a certain group of people not to vote - who would possibly be voting for conservative candidates/propositions).

So that IS political action; [anti political] - in working to remove voters in my view.

Further, political inaction IS an action. Even in salvation, by not accepting Christ willingly, you are by default rejecting Him. If you aren't FOR Him, you are against Him without doing anything.

Hope this makes sense in how I viewed Balances finding on Marke's political posts.