Beware of wrong teaching

[holo]

Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela did not eliminate oppression and racism. Racism and oppression still exist in the U.S. and South Africa. Instead of discriminating in the open, they do it behind the person's back, and the one who was discriminated against usually does not know.

That may be true. They didn't manage to change the entire world. I'm glad they tried though, because they had a serious impact. There a lots of black people who have jobs, education, because of them. A lot of people are probably alive as a direct result of Mandela's and King's politic work.

 

[seekthetruth909]

If we look at the word kill it is as an individual. That is murder and that is wrong.


There is nothing against a nation waging war or against a Christian serving in that capacity.


There is nothing that says a Christian can't join the military and nothing commanding us to do so. That tells us that it is a personal choice between the man and God. The important thing is that he be fully convinced and that he doesn't force his personal choice as a belief on others.

I haven’t researched this topic in the New Testament, so I don’t know the answer, but Marke does make a very good point about serving in the military in a non-combatant role. There was recently a post on the topic of killing at:
http://www.christianforums.com/t4097143&page=15
You will find the New Testament is very clear in this regard.
God Bless

 

[mont974x4]

You're right, it is clear.

There is no condemnation for serving in the military, law enforcement, or any other government agency in any capacity anywhere in Scripture. Neither are we commanded too. Therefore, we are free to choose for ourselves in prayefrul consideration listening for His leading.


With that in mind, what if we found ourselves living in a country with mandatory military service? We are to obey the laws of the land. Those who burned their draft cards here in the US not only disobeyed man but more importantly they also disobeyed God. They should have chosen a more God honoring means of voicing their belief.


Since we do have a choice at this time...
I have no problem with people choosing to not serve in those capacities. I do however, beleive they would be wrong to tell others that do choose to serve in those areas that they are wrong.

In Him
Jay

 

[seekthetruth909]

mont974x4;29155827 You're right, it is clear.

There is no condemnation for serving in the military, law enforcement, or any other government agency in any capacity anywhere in Scripture. Neither are we commanded too. Therefore, we are free to choose for ourselves in prayefrul consideration listening for His leading.

I agree.

With that in mind, what if we found ourselves living in a country with mandatory military service? We are to obey the laws of the land. Those who burned their draft cards here in the US not only disobeyed man but more importantly they also disobeyed God. They should have chosen a more God honoring means of voicing their belief.

I disagree. The Christian Quakers refused to join the army in the 1800's and participate in the genocide of the native Indians.
Was this disobeying God?
Many Christians believed that Vietnam was an unjust war and refused service. The bible clearly states that God’s authority supersedes human authority,

Peter and the apostles answered, ‘We must obey God rather than any human authority.’ ” —Acts 5:29

They is also this statement by Jesus to consider:
Jesus said, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight. . .’ ” —John 18:36

Since we do have a choice at this time...

I have no problem with people choosing to not serve in those capacities. I do however, beleive they would be wrong to tell others that do choose to serve in those areas that they are wrong.

In Him
Jay

I agree.
God Bless


"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” —Matthew 5:9

 

[mont974x4]

I'm not a quaker.

Also, I never said all wars are just. However, most of the wars we have fought as a nation have been just.

Also, as long as this world is a fallen world there will be a need for conflict to bring about peace.

I also believe that we, since we do have power, also have a responsibility to those who suffer and have no power to help themselves. That's why I volunteered to fight to end genocide in Kosovo...and other places.


Good night and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[marke]

I'm not a quaker.

Also, I never said all wars are just. However, most of the wars we have fought as a nation have been just.

Also, as long as this world is a fallen world there will be a need for conflict to bring about peace.

I also believe that we, since we do have power, also have a responsibility to those who suffer and have no power to help themselves. That's why I volunteered to fight to end genocide in Kosovo...and other places.


Good night and Happy Thanksgiving.

Should have been a grave digger or medic or car mechanic or any other trade rather than choosing a trade where you kill another human being in direct conflict with the Ten Commandments.

Who sets policy in Christianity? Jesus or the transgressors of the teaching. I mean really. Black is black and yet we are being told that black is really white by those who want to follow their own doctrine. It's insane!

We are to conform our views to those of Jesus and as we have already discussed and proven in the post "Where does Jesus give His followers permission to kill?", you DON'T have permission to take another human life. Period.

I hope you'll see the light soon.

God bless.

 

[mont974x4]

By your view King David, a man after God's own heart, was wrong. As were the Isrealites when they obeyed God and went to war. How many times were they punished for not totally whiping out the enemy?

I don't recall Jesus telling the centurian to find another job, or anyone else for that matter.


You have made your choice with a clear conscience and prayer and so have I. Niether of us have the right to tell the other they are wrong in regards to this personal decision.

I guess,we'll have to agree to disagree. God bless.

 

[Nadiine]

Christians. Your soul is at risk. Joel Hunter is the new President of the "Christian Coalition" and he said he hopes to make the Christian Coalition "more of a grass-roots organization so that we can mobilize every Christian in America to have a political involvement as a part of their normal spiritual growth." This is really deadly wrong teaching according to New Testament scripture and a good reason to ask yourself if the "Christian Right" are leading their followers to Heaven or hell. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to discern right from wrong and warns time and time again not to follow blindly. There is a scriptural problem with Christians standing for or against issues of the world in that the dead don’t concern themselves with issues of the world. It’s a matter of self preservation. Correct New Testament scripture says Christians should be dead to the world allowing God to be in control. Yet the accumulators (how you know them), these ministers of misinformation whose unsubstantiated doctrine blows with the wind encourage their followers to do these very things; the very things that Jesus warns will destroy your soul. Example. The parable of the seeds, Matthew 13:22 and repeated again in Luke 8:14, shows the ministers of misinformation are deadly wrong: involvement with the world causes you to lose your salvation. These ministers of error say you can’t lose your salvation and encourage you to vote their way, condemn those they don’t like, seek riches (just like them) and involve yourself in issues of the world. In this parable, Jesus shows this to be flat out wrong teaching. Deadly to your soul even. Read the scripture yourself. Jesus says get out of the world, the "Christian Right" says get more involved. Who are you going to follow?

Have you actually thought about this way of thinking?

We all stop voting against abortion... so it STAYS legal?
We all stop voting against homosexual agendas, so gay marriage becomes legal & stays that way?

If our country is FREE and allows us to vote for those who appear to be siding w/ Godly moral values, then why is voting evil??

Isn't it MORE evil if we as Christians shut up and step aside from the voting process to BE MUTE while we let the ungodly make all the decisions to keep society a-moral and anti God?

Aren't we called to let our lights shine and not hide them?
ps. where does the Bible say I cannot vote?

I WILL VOTE every election to do my part as a Believer to work against immoral laws that my tax dollar is going toward until my Lord takes me home.

 

[pdfiddler]

mont974x4 King David was not allowed to partake of the building of the temple because of the blood on his hands.
Marke,it is refreshing to read your views!

 

[Nadiine]

mont974x4 King David was not allowed to partake of the building of the temple because of the blood on his hands.
Marke,it is refreshing to read your views!

Before you use this claim to support your anti-war rally, you may want to read these IMPORTANT verses as to David's standing with God:

Ps. 89:34-37 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and [as] a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Is. 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Mat 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

Does this sound like God is passing David by because he was in war?
Jesus is the Son of David and he wasn't too "bloody" to be of his seed, but God is anti war becuz he couldn't build His temple?

Is God the author of confusion? Simply because God had another build His temple is NOT by any means proof that God is ANTI War... not then OR today.
God found David fit enough to covenant with directly and come from his seed.

 

[mont974x4]

True, but David was still called a man after Gods own heart. Perhaps the best thing to do is look at the why of the war...not war itself. Thus, why I support a just war as opposed to just any war.

 

[imaniingod]

Any immorality is wrong. God's word is true and as Christians we need to uphold biblical principles. I am praying for this forum. Lean not unto your own understanding but stand on the word OF GOD. God bless you

 

[seekthetruth909]

mont974x4 King David was not allowed to partake of the building of the temple because of the blood on his hands.
Marke,it is refreshing to read your views!

Actually it’s irrelevant. In the Old Testament the Jewish people were under a different set of rules. Following their religion today, they would be justified in their acts of war. We are not under Jewish law, we are Christians so we must follow the teachings of Jesus.
What does Jesus say in regards to following the law of the Old Testament?

[BIBLE]
Galatians 3:25 “Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”

2 Corinthians 3:6 “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”

Galatians 3:23 “Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.”

Galatians 3:11 “Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” [ Heb. 2:4]

Hebrews 8:7 “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.”

Galatians 5:18 “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.”
[/BIBLE]

What does Jesus say in regards to our enemies?

[BIBLE]
Instead of an “eye for an eye,” Jesus said, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” —Matthew 5:38,44

If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? Matthew 5:46

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:27

Jesus said, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight. . .’ ” —John 18:36

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” —Matthew 5:9


1 Peter 3:8-9
8 Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.

Philippians 2:3 "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves."

The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Galatians 5:14

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. James 2:8

[ Love one another ] This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 1 John 3:11

“Do not repay anyone evil for evil . . . Do not take revenge, but leave room for God’s wrath.” —Romans 12:17,19

[/BIBLE]

God Bless

 

[seekthetruth909]

I'm not a quaker.

Also, I never said all wars are just. However, most of the wars we have fought as a nation have been just.

Also, as long as this world is a fallen world there will be a need for conflict to bring about peace.

I also believe that we, since we do have power, also have a responsibility to those who suffer and have no power to help themselves. That's why I volunteered to fight to end genocide in Kosovo...and other places.


Good night and Happy Thanksgiving.

I would like to commend you for going to Kosovo. The bible also says "Blessed are the peacekeepers,for they shall be called the sons of God." This could refer to peacekeeping troops.

God Bless

 

[seekthetruth909]

Have you actually thought about this way of thinking?

We all stop voting against abortion... so it STAYS legal?
We all stop voting against homosexual agendas, so gay marriage becomes legal & stays that way?

If our country is FREE and allows us to vote for those who appear to be siding w/ Godly moral values, then why is voting evil??

Isn't it MORE evil if we as Christians shut up and step aside from the voting process to BE MUTE while we let the ungodly make all the decisions to keep society a-moral and anti God?

Aren't we called to let our lights shine and not hide them?
ps. where does the Bible say I cannot vote?

I WILL VOTE every election to do my part as a Believer to work against immoral laws that my tax dollar is going toward until my Lord takes me home.

You do have a good point! Personally I basically feel the same way. We should do our part to make this world a better place. But unfortunately my opinion no longer counts. Only God’s commands apply! A couple of years ago I suffered a tragedy in my life, which made me examine my Christianity. From this experience I decided to submit myself completely to The Word. If we truly believe in the inerrancy of the bible we have to set aside our personal views and follow The Word of God

What does the bible say about being politically active? I don’t know, I haven’t researched the scripture on this topic. Someone else may have some scripture to offer to help us understand God’s will on this subject. I just have one question to ponder: Why did Jesus and the apostles avoid politics?

God Bless

 

[mont974x4]

Seeker, it was my pleasure and an honor.

 

[marke]

Have you actually thought about this way of thinking?

We all stop voting against abortion... so it STAYS legal?
We all stop voting against homosexual agendas, so gay marriage becomes legal & stays that way?

If our country is FREE and allows us to vote for those who appear to be siding w/ Godly moral values, then why is voting evil??

Isn't it MORE evil if we as Christians shut up and step aside from the voting process to BE MUTE while we let the ungodly make all the decisions to keep society a-moral and anti God?

Aren't we called to let our lights shine and not hide them?
ps. where does the Bible say I cannot vote?

I WILL VOTE every election to do my part as a Believer to work against immoral laws that my tax dollar is going toward until my Lord takes me home.

Where is your faith? You think evil will progress in the world because you vote or not? Don't be silly. Doesn't God control everything? PSM 139 seems to think so and so does scripture after scripture after scripture. Jesus says not a sparrow falls without his leave and aren't you more important than a sparrow? Wouldn't that include the unborn too? Everything is unfolding just as God allows.

And who said that you are to judge people outside the church? Somebody who is telling you fairy tales and leading you astray as per the OP.

Just look what you are doing to yourself. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the person without sin to cast the first stone. Are you without sin? Abortion is none of your business. Gay marriage is none of your business. Involving yourself in issues of the world are none of your business. In fact, all of the above harm your soul if you pursue them. That's NT scripture.

And where does the church get all high and mighty. If they want to kick the gays in the teeth outside the church, how about all the divorced people inside the church. Why are they not booting them out? A whole lot more text banning divorce can be found than can be found concerning gays.

How does their marriage harm you? It doesn't. Only by YOU condemning YOURSELF as per Romans 2:1. Do you think gays appreciate you standing against them being treated like other couples in a relationship? Probably not. So why are you doing it? If you are not doing unto them as you would like done to you, you shouldn't be doing it.

There is a crisis inside the church, solve those problems before you go outside the church.

Jesus tells us follow a blind person and you'll both fall into a ditch. Follow NT scripture instead of fairy tales and you would have agreed with the OP rather than oppose it.

Save your soul. Let God run the world. You help fix the problems inside the church if you want to get involved.

God bless.

 

[marke]

Any immorality is wrong. God's word is true and as Christians we need to uphold biblical principles. I am praying for this forum. Lean not unto your own understanding but stand on the word OF GOD. God bless you

Yes.

God Bless

 

[pdfiddler]

The cares of the world are a weight on a believers shoulders. It was for freedom that Christ set us free.We as believers cannot serve two masters. We are to be in the world not of the world. Those of the world seek after the concerns of the world.And the world loved them. Our concerns as believers are of the Kingdom Of God ( Gods family or Gods nation). Politics and war are of the world. Our Kingdom(nation) is not of this world. We have to be free, in order to be free to serve as a bond servant.The Kingdom of God is spiritual. The world is earthly and perishing and those of the world are perishing also. Those of the Kingdom have eternal life.It is the faith ,love and the nonconcern for the affairs of the world without fear that will set us as a light on a stand in the days to come.

 

[Nadiine]

Where is your faith? You think evil will progress in the world because you vote or not? Don't be silly. Doesn't God control everything? PSM 139 seems to think so and so does scripture after scripture after scripture. Jesus says not a sparrow falls without his leave and aren't you more important than a sparrow? Wouldn't that include the unborn too? Everything is unfolding just as God allows.

Well, what is FAITH without works? How do we claim faith, then NOT DO anything?
By the way, THIS IS YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION/ spin on scripture. The bible doesn't SAY this.
You've taken some verses to mean this because it's your opinion.

So let me get this right, YOU think 'faith' means, just PRAY, and God will fix it supernaturally WITHOUT USING ANY OF HIS PEOPLE?

So, as the Good Samaritan story goes, we as Christians should just pass by the broken, starving, poor beggar laying by the road to say, "sorry, I can't help you, I can't lift a finger becuz I HAVE FAITH THAT GOD WILL FEED & CLOTHE YOU".

Don't be involved, just expect God to supernaturally fix everything WITHOUT YOUR INVOLVEMENT?
Did it occur to you THAT GOD USES US IN HIS PLANS?

We are His soldiers (as Paul aptly puts it). He saved us so that we would work against evil down here, and be involved in all aspects of life.
Are you aware that the Bible uses WAR terminology in spiritual "battle"? God sure seems to think we're in a war...

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. ​

I see this mindset too with giving Offerings or tithes to the church... some say, "God doesn't NEED our money"....well, I'd like to know how much gets done without ANY money in our system where money is used.
God had them bring in tithes & offerings in BOTH Bible testaments, BUT TODAY, HE MIRACULOUSLY DOESN'T NEED US to give?
Again, don't DO anything, just pray it gets done. (let someone else do it)​

Just look what you are doing to yourself. Did you miss the part where Jesus told the person without sin to cast the first stone. Are you without sin? Abortion is none of your business. Gay marriage is none of your business. Involving yourself in issues of the world are none of your business. In fact, all of the above harm your soul if you pursue them. That's NT scripture.

What am I doing to myself?
I claim that they want the country run like Sodom & Gomorrah... and want to kick God OUT of all society (which the ACLU is in the process of). If you can't properly define judging, then please don't accuse others of it.
I CAN judge that homosexuality is moral sin.

They aren't OUR business??? AS WE RAISE FAMILIES IN A SOCIETY LIKE SODOM & GOMORRAH? While we watch people's lives fall apart due to decay of sin??
THAT'S NOT OUR BUSINESS? If they're none of our business, then we shouldn't bother to PRAY for them either.

What is our business as believers? Cowering in our little houses while the LOST run the world for us becuz we're too 'holy' to get our hands roughed up?
Have you even read what happens to society when corruption takes it over? Read all the people crying out to God for help & for justice as they're lives are ruined by injustice (which we already see in our court & educational systems). It effects us all.

Jesus tells us follow a blind person and you'll both fall into a ditch. Follow NT scripture instead of fairy tales and you would have agreed with the OP rather than oppose it.

Yes, He does... did you ever stop to think that those who disagree with you, AREN'T THE BLIND ONES?
(MOST people who use that verse never stop to think that they may actually be the one the verse is about!).

There is a crisis inside the church, solve those problems before you go outside the church.

So, I need to personally go FIX every church that you deem "bad", before I can call SIN what it is?
I AM THE CHURCH - God's people are the true church.
I solve the problem by keeping my OWN life right before God.

How does their marriage harm you? It doesn't. Only by YOU condemning YOURSELF as per Romans 2:1. Do you think gays appreciate you standing against them being treated like other couples in a relationship? Probably not. So why are you doing it? If you are not doing unto them as you would like done to you, you shouldn't be doing it

ARE YOU IN SUPPORT OF HOMOSEXUALITY? You sound supportive of their lifestyle.

Before you use verses on wrongful judging & the blind leading the blind, please make sure it's not yourself first.