Beware of Worldly Dressing

[dragongunner]

Why are you saying pants are men's clothing? In many cultures, both men and women were robes, but that doesn't make it cross dressing.

Agree. Depends on the culture and time, nothing about pants…its about gender clothing. I once saw a artist painting of David killing Goliath……David was wearing a "mini skirt" at least thats what we would call it today. Pretty sure pants weren't even invented then, but even then there was probably skirts for men and skirts for woman. Some clothes are made just for men, and some clothes are made just for woman, this is the difference. Its simply a matter of legalism, either by way of control, ignorance or immaturity in the scriptures.

 

[Xalith]

Agree. Depends on the culture and time, nothing about pants…its about gender clothing. I once saw a artist painting of David killing Goliath……David was wearing a "mini skirt" at least thats what we would call it today. Pretty sure pants weren't even invented then, but even then there was probably skirts for men and skirts for woman. Some clothes are made just for men, and some clothes are made just for woman, this is the difference. Its simply a matter of legalism, either by way of control, ignorance or immaturity in the scriptures.

Not to mention in today's society, womens' pants and mens' pants are two different things. They are made differently, shaped differently, and are usually in different style.

Basically, the idea of the aforementioned quoted law from the Mosaic Law (which does not pertain to us anyways), is "don't go cross-dressing". I think the idea was more that He didn't want women trying to look like men, and men trying to look like women. You can see a lady in pants, and you can tell she's a lady and she's not trying to look masculine whatsoever.

There are also "skirts" for men (kilts) that were worn by various peoples (Scottish people are famous for this). Also, robes. How many times have you seen Christ depicted wearing that kind of garb? But yet, any picture of Christ and, say, Mary, you can tell the difference between robes and a dress. Just like in today's society, you can tell the difference between ladies' denim and mens' denim pants.

 

[Brokenhill]

I think sometimes we over-use/mis-apply the term "legalism".

Our faith in God saves us because of His grace, however, our faith should lead us to good works, because "faith without works is DEAD" (James 2:17).
Spiritual growth, in a sense, is a condition to receive God's grace. We are all imperfect but are to be striving to be better Christians. God does not want us to be luke-warm (Rev. 3).
Col 1: " 9 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light."

We are to increase in the knowledge of God (learning the nuances of scripture is one way) so that we may please him in ALL things not just some. Are we ever going to learn everything and perfectly execute? No. Does God expect us to try? Yes. So I agree that salvation is ultimately from God and His grace, but we have to do our part.

SO, modest attire (and modesty in general) is an important topic for Christians to regularly consider, both MEN and WOMEN.
1 Tim. 2: " 9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness."

I know most people agree that the main point of this statement is to focus on the inner being, rather than the outer.
However, I find it interesting that specific details are given.
Modesty as emphasized in this context means SIMPLICITY, not as much referring to sexuality. I don't think we should take the details mentioned here lightly (e.g. braided hair, jewelry, costly clothing).
I believe this most certainly applies today. If a woman is worried about godliness, she won't care about dyeing her hair or shopping all the time for new clothes as fashions change or caking her face with makeup. She will appreciate the body and head that God gave her and dress more plainly, in order to fade into the backdrop of society (physically speaking) so that her character can shine.
Just because a woman isn't CONSUMED by her image, doesn't mean she's completely in the right with wearing certain things.

Likewise, for men, we shouldn't care about suits and ties and fancy watches or rings. Especially ties (or similar articles)...they are absolutely worthless pieces of clothing, their only purpose is to PLEASE THE EYES OF MEN. We should also be dressing functionally and simply.

Is it explicitly stated that wearing pearl necklaces or 3-piece suits is a sin? No, but often times in our walk with God we have 3 choices: the bad, the good, and the BETTER choice...
None of us are perfect, but we should be striving to tweak ourselves, such as in the realm of modesty, in order BETTER please God. God appreciates a growing heart, not just one who is trying to ride the line of being in the light vs. the pleasures of the world. We should be trying to get further away from the line of sin, rather than just barely skimming by in righteousness.
______

It's very interesting if you learn about how the early Christians treated this subject. I think they have a better idea than we do today...

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I think sometimes we over-use/mis-apply the term "legalism".

Our faith in God saves us because of His grace, however, our faith should lead us to good works, because "faith without works is DEAD" (James 2:17).
Spiritual growth, in a sense, is a condition to receive God's grace. We are all imperfect but are to be striving to be better Christians. God does not want us to be luke-warm (Rev. 3).
Col 1: " 9 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light."

We are to increase in the knowledge of God (learning the nuances of scripture is one way) so that we may please him in ALL things not just some. Are we ever going to learn everything and perfectly execute? No. Does God expect us to try? Yes. So I agree that salvation is ultimately from God and His grace, but we have to do our part.

SO, modest attire (and modesty in general) is an important topic for Christians to regularly consider, both MEN and WOMEN.
1 Tim. 2: " 9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness."

I know most people agree that the main point of this statement is to focus on the inner being, rather than the outer.
However, I find it interesting that specific details are given.
Modesty as emphasized in this context means SIMPLICITY, not as much referring to sexuality. I don't think we should take the details mentioned here lightly (e.g. braided hair, jewelry, costly clothing).
I believe this most certainly applies today. If a woman is worried about godliness, she won't care about dyeing her hair or shopping all the time for new clothes as fashions change or caking her face with makeup. She will appreciate the body and head that God gave her and dress more plainly, in order to fade into the backdrop of society (physically speaking) so that her character can shine.
Just because a woman isn't CONSUMED by her image, doesn't mean she's completely in the right with wearing certain things.

Likewise, for men, we shouldn't care about suits and ties and fancy watches or rings. Especially ties (or similar articles)...they are absolutely worthless pieces of clothing, their only purpose is to PLEASE THE EYES OF MEN. We should also be dressing functionally and simply.

Is it explicitly stated that wearing pearl necklaces or 3-piece suits is a sin? No, but often times in our walk with God we have 3 choices: the bad, the good, and the BETTER choice...
None of us are perfect, but we should be striving to tweak ourselves, such as in the realm of modesty, in order BETTER please God. God appreciates a growing heart, not just one who is trying to ride the line of being in the light vs. the pleasures of the world. We should be trying to get further away from the line of sin, rather than just barely skimming by in righteousness.
______

It's very interesting if you learn about how the early Christians treated this subject. I think they have a better idea than we do today...

Some of what you say I can agree with, but the OP specifically talked about women wearing pants and makeup. As far as the term legalism, some people are so deep into it that berate people for it, and that is wrong. Telling someone that they are going to Hell because they wear pants, makeup, and jewelry is foul.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Some of what you say I can agree with, but the OP specifically talked about women wearing pants and makeup. As far as the term legalism, some people are so deep into it that berate people for it, and that is wrong. Telling someone that they are going to Hell because they wear pants, makeup, and jewelry is foul.

Handmaid for Jesus:

History has a lot to do with it; and the Bible believer is not stuck in one, past period of history. For example, the widespread wearing of lipstick came in about a century ago with Elizabeth Arden and others who supported woman suffrage popularizing the wearing of pink lipstick. Re. Jewelry, the Lord Himself is recorded as giving Zion earrings (and, as it happens, even a nose ring) in Ezekiel 16.12. As for pants, it's almost the staple wear for women in North America and my wife wears them most of the time. Trying to turn the clock back to a past period of history with regard to such subjective matters is simply unwise, right?

Today, modest Christian women can wear lipstick, earrings and pants with confidence.

Blessings.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

l

Handmaid for Jesus:

History has a lot to do with it; and the Bible believer is not stuck in one, past period of history. For example, the widespread wearing of lipstick came in about a century ago with Elizabeth Arden and others who supported woman suffrage popularizing the wearing of pink lipstick. Re. Jewelry, the Lord Himself is recorded as giving Zion earrings (and, as it happens, even a nose ring) in Ezekiel 16.12. As for pants, it's almost the staple wear for women in North America and my wife wears them most of the time. Trying to turn the clock back to a past period of history with regard to such subjective matters is simply unwise, right?

Today, modest Christian women can wear lipstick, earrings and pants with confidence.

Blessings.

I agree.

 

[faroukfarouk]

l

I agree.

There's really no turning the clock back with such things. Blessings.

 

[Brokenhill]

Some of what you say I can agree with, but the OP specifically talked about women wearing pants and makeup. As far as the term legalism, some people are so deep into it that berate people for it, and that is wrong. Telling someone that they are going to Hell because they wear pants, makeup, and jewelry is foul.

I admit I was expanding on the topic instead of directly replying to the OP. And what I had to say is more for mature Christians. I wouldn't run up to a new convert and give them a dress code...I wouldn't do that to anyone, but this is one of those topics that mature Christians should challenge themselves with.

And I agree with you, mainly because the judgement of salvation is God's alone. Christians are obligated to make proper judgements towards one another as a means to encourage & admonish scriptural things...by a means of gentleness & humility, but it is indeed foolish to condemn people to hell, especially for reasons like this.

For the record, I'm ok with women wearing pants lol.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

LOL!

 

[Brokenhill]

There's really no turning the clock back with such things. Blessings.

Sure, we have the apply these principals to any given contemporary society, but at the same time just because something is common in a given time period doesn't necessarily make it correct.

First century women would try and make sure they bought/made un-dyed clothing, because colors were considered special, especially purple (as we all know). Is it wrong to wear purple today? No, because it doesn't have the same kind of awe/respect that it used to garner. However, sometimes modern fashion calls to be very flashy and bright with lots of accessories...or wearing certain brands of clothing would be the modern day equivalent of a purple robe, so we should avoid those things today.

_____
Another aspect that modest dress/living delves into is the fact that if we spend less on ourselves (less shoes to choose from, less accessories, cheaper clothing, etc.) then we have MORE to give to others who are truly in need.

 

[faroukfarouk]

LOL!

Well, exactly!

 

[Catherineanne]

A hell testimony that I received from someone on facebook.

In this place, once you get there, you will see yourself on a screen, all your activities on earth, e.g. dressing. For some pastors &others, their case was very fast- they go straight to hell fire. * Those with worldly hairstyle * Those that use skin lightening cream to change their skin colour * Make-up * Jerry curl hair * Mini skirts, female trousers, nude clothes etc WILL ALL GO TO HELL FIRE! PASTORS That Do NOT CORRECT Members who dress worldly, will go to hell fire. Please do not allow your members to entice you with money that will lead you to hell fire.

A CERTAIN WOMAN WAS SHOUTING, "I will never forgive my pastor!" Because when she was still alive on earth, She attended a revival meeting where she heard the word about end time. She gathered all her jewelries, makeup, shoes, weavon, trousers and clothes that do not befit a christian and burnt them all with fire. She started dressing normally as a child of God. One day (as we saw it on the screen) The pastor of her church saw her and said, "Sister, what happened to you?" She explained the revival meeting, and said, "My pastor, You are not telling us the truth of the Way of the Lord Jesus". He replied, "Oh my God, you have gone to worship with all these churches! For God has nothing to do with your way of dressing because you have believed Him in your mind". Because of what the pastor said, she went back home and started dressing in her old worldly ways again. After service one day, on her way back home, she got involved in an auto accident and she died and went to hell fire! IT WAS INSIDE HELL FIRE SHE WAS CRYING, "I WILL NEVER FORGIVE MY PASTOR!" GOD IS HOLY! HEAVEN IS HOLY! NO DEFILEMENT CAN ENTER!

None of that is in the Bible.

File under 'man made gospel'. Move on.

 

[Catherineanne]

The woman who lusts and desires for gold jewelry and spends all day putting on makeup all day is in danger of idolatry. It depends on how important her makeup and her jewelry is. Let's not forget that Idolatry is not necessarily just worshipping idols in the sense that you're worshipping false gods (who does that nowadays, who calls themselves a Christian?). It can also be anything that distracts you from God; God is supposed to be first and foremost in your life, and then everything else follows after Him.

Though I will note another thing that nobody in this thread has mentioned: Paul has told us not to put a "stumbling-block" in front of others. The women who like to wear the sensual revealing clothing is doing just that for men. Men are not to lust after women; Jesus tells us that if we look at a woman and we desire to be with her, then we've already committed adultery in our hearts.

If a woman walks around with revealing clothing, showing half of her breasts, or miniskirts that show too much, and a man lusts after her because of it, then she's just as guilty of that sin as he is. I personally think a lot of women, even some saved Christians, are one day going to have to answer for themselves when He asks them why they were dressing like that, and have to stand in front of a large line of men who are guilty of lusting after her and have to answer for what she did.

In the dream the OP posted, that might be partly why the woman was being warned about the way she was dressing. However, to actually say a woman will go to Hell for dressing in a risque manner? I don't know. That's going along the lines of "can you lose your salvation?" and I really don't want to open that can of worms here. I will say, though, that if a woman is a Saved Christian, she should have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which justifies her and then sanctifies her over time, and she would surely dress more modestly and turn away from sinful things and treat her own body with some respect (instead of showing it off like a common harlot would).

Newsflash: Women do not dress to please men. We dress to please ourselves, and to express something of who we are. That expression is a personal choice, and it is up to any woman to decide upon, nobody else. As such a woman cannot sin by what she wears, because it is an expression of who she is. Sin is about behaviour, not identity. Clothes are about identity.

Evidence; how many women have asked their husbands, partners, boyfriends, brothers or dads; 'Do you like my new dress?' only to meet a blank look, and an admission that they never even noticed? Pretty well all of us, I would think.

 

[abysmul]

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God. (Deuteronomy 22:5)

Did Jesus wear trousers?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Sure, we have the apply these principals to any given contemporary society, but at the same time just because something is common in a given time period doesn't necessarily make it correct.

First century women would try and make sure they bought/made un-dyed clothing, because colors were considered special, especially purple (as we all know). Is it wrong to wear purple today? No, because it doesn't have the same kind of awe/respect that it used to garner. However, sometimes modern fashion calls to be very flashy and bright with lots of accessories...or wearing certain brands of clothing would be the modern day equivalent of a purple robe, so we should avoid those things today.

_____
Another aspect that modest dress/living delves into is the fact that if we spend less on ourselves (less shoes to choose from, less accessories, cheaper clothing, etc.) then we have MORE to give to others who are truly in need.

One again, I partially agree with you. Should I not enjoy and wear a Versace brand garment that is given to me as a gift? Avoiding brand names for the sake of the poor sounds to me like Judas complaining about the perfume being poured on Jesus.
Matthew 26:
6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,

7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

The poor will always be with us. I agree that having excess stuff is not good. But that does not mean one has to wear shabby clothing, shoes, and tin for jewelry to prove right standing with our Father.

 

[faroukfarouk]

One again, I partially agree with you. Should I not enjoy and wear a Versace brand garment that is given to me as a gift? Avoiding brand names for the sake of the poor sounds to me like Judas complaining about the perfume being poured on Jesus.
Matthew 26:
6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,

7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

The poor will always be with us. I agree that having excess stuff is not good. But that does not mean one has to wear shabby clothing, shoes, and tin for jewelry to prove my right standing with our Father.

If going to a wedding, for example, most Christian women in North America would not wear jeans and flip flops, but a fairly new and even maybe colorful outfit, probably heels that are reasonably high, earrings and facial coloring: lips, eyelids and cheeks. Most Christian men would wear a suit and newish-looking necktie and polished shoes.

This is not being arrogant; this would simply be regarded as courtesy in relation to the event.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

If going to a wedding, for example, most Christian women in North America would not wear jeans and flip flops, but a fairly new and even maybe colorful outfit, probably heels that are reasonably high, earrings and facial coloring: lips, eyelids and cheeks. Most Christian men would wear a suit and newish-looking necktie and polished shoes.

This is not being arrogant; this would simply be regarded as courtesy in relation to the event.

Not only weddings. Dressing in beautiful attire to go anywhere special, say for instance, to church is perfectly ok, or beautiful casual attire to go to a ball game. Your holiness would not be affected by the clothes worn. It is absurd to think so.

 

[Catherineanne]

Sure, we have the apply these principals to any given contemporary society, but at the same time just because something is common in a given time period doesn't necessarily make it correct.

First century women would try and make sure they bought/made un-dyed clothing, because colors were considered special, especially purple (as we all know). Is it wrong to wear purple today? No, because it doesn't have the same kind of awe/respect that it used to garner. However, sometimes modern fashion calls to be very flashy and bright with lots of accessories...or wearing certain brands of clothing would be the modern day equivalent of a purple robe, so we should avoid those things today.

_____
Another aspect that modest dress/living delves into is the fact that if we spend less on ourselves (less shoes to choose from, less accessories, cheaper clothing, etc.) then we have MORE to give to others who are truly in need.

Up until only 100 years or so ago fabric was immensely expensive and most people would only have one set of clothing; even rich people might only have 4 or 5 changes of clothes, and royalty perhaps 20; far less than we would consider normal for everyday people.

The idea that first century people had a wardrobe of clothes to choose from, and that they would avoid one kind of clothing one day, and wear it the next, is anachronistic. The majority would have one set of homespun clothing, probably undyed. If dyes were used they would be natural ones; greens and browns. Women would spin wool into thread and weave cloth themselves to make a new set of clothing when necessary, but they would not have the kind of choice we have today when we look in our wardrobes.

Injunctions in Scripture to avoid flaunting wealth or extravagant clothing are not aimed at everyday people. They are aimed at those with excessive wealth, and excessive wardrobes to match.

 

[Catherineanne]

Did Jesus wear trousers?

We don't know but it is possible; breeches did exist. It probably depends on how cold he was.

http://www.tribunesandtriumphs.org/roman-clothing/roman-trousers-and-breeches.htm

 

[faroukfarouk]

Not only weddings. Dressing in beautiful attire to go anywhere special, say for instance, to church is perfectly ok, or beautiful casual attire to go to a ball game. Your holiness would not be affected by the clothes worn. It is absurd to think so.

Handmaid for Jesus:

Personally I'm a great believer in sobriety and humility, which become a person who aspires to Godliness, which is first and foremost an inward matter.

That being said, many - even most - Christian moms in North America will typically and reasonably teach their daughters about haircuts and styles, how to apply lipstick, about color matching of garments (I drive my wife crazy sometimes with my inabilities here!), encourage them to get at least 1 set of ear piercings and advise what may be suitable to wear in them, how to paint their nails, etc. Many Christian dads will typically and reasonably teach their sons how to tie the knot of a necktie, to keep a least one pair of special shoes polished or brushed and - yes! - remind them about keeping the car washed and looking reasonably clean.

Again, this is not arrogance; it's rather about teaching and maintaining what is suitable and appropriate in one's personal grooming and according to the occasion. It's often said in clothing stores that, in life situations where a man may be expected to wear a necktie, the equivalent for a woman is to insert an appropriate pair of her earrings. These kind of details may vary a lot, but it's simply about what is suitable and appropriate.