BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[yeshuaslavejeff]

@mmksparbud has done well testifying of Jesus and Truth in this thread, against the blatant errors and false gospel of u.r. presented demonically in this thread (and others).

Still the blind eyes of those trapped in u.r. are remaining blind. the deaf ears are not hearing. they are willfully and rebelliously closed. May God have mercy! ?

 

[mmksparbud]

My dear lady: When you were a wee girl of 7 the Lord Jesus Christ first touched me with His love and grace. Little did I know then the expansive dimensions where He dwells in the outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown. I still cannot define Pi to the last digit. The Author & Finisher of Pi can only be known by ephphatha. Our blind eyes & deaf ears must be opened.

"After all, even though we all die, and we're all like water being spilled on the ground that cannot be recovered, nevertheless God doesn't take away life, but carries out his plans so as not to cast away permanently from him those who are presently estranged."

Really---well He's known me from the womb. We all have access to the Holy Spirit. You read too much garbage and not enough of the bible. It doesn't matter to me what these people think ---I get my doctrines from the bible not from men sitting around smoking the strange stuff.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For decades ....... (smoking the strange stuff of u.r. ) (bring "strange" fire , rejected by the Almighty each time)

i.e. hooked / deceived/ a long time......

 

[Der Alte]

False. He agrees that it's ambiguous. (then goes on to claim what you say, like I said, not an UR-ite)

I said CARM states that aionios means eternal in many verses. I did NOT say all. But I disagree with CARM on that point. My position is that aion means eternity, and nothing else, aionios means eternal, and nothing else. I showed that in my post #668, which nobody has addressed, ever, although I have posted it many times. Well if that is true how do we explain both words being used to refer to things which are not eternal? Hyperbole, much the same as we use words hyperbolically. E.g. "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse." "That person is as big as a house." "I had to stand in line forever."etc.

False again. I specificly said it was the secondary meaning.

See my previous reply, above.

Is that an indication you don't read my posts...? Again, Revelation 22:17

Alright. Now let's read this verse in context.

Rev 22:7
(7) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.​

Why didn't Jesus say "Blessed is everyone?'" According to Jesus in order to be blessed one must keep the prophesies in this book. How can those who died as sinners keep those prophesies? They can't work after death. Joh_9:4 the night cometh, when no man can work.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.​

Here God has already abandoned the unjust and filthy and they will be rewarded according to their work.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie​

Here God makes a distinction between those who obey His commandments and those who do not. Those who do not do God's commandments are NOT blessed, do NOT have the right to the tree of life may NOT enter in through the gates of the city..

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:19
(19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

After your proof text vs. 17 everybody does not get saved not even the unrighteous after death. The penalty for taking away from the words of the prophecy is God will take away their. N.B. This is after vs. 17. Did Jesus get this wrong?


death, judgement, lake of fire, gospel[/QUOTE]

 

[FineLinen]

Really---well He's known me from the womb. We all have access to the Holy Spirit. You read too much garbage and not enough of the bible. It doesn't matter to me what these people think ---I get my doctrines from the bible not from men sitting around smoking the strange stuff.

The fact is that those who have been ordained to eternal life become believers.

Another word for elect is "especially".

Especially = malista

Malista is NOT monos or monon

God is NOT the Saviour of some of us, a few of us, a great number of us, or only us.

"God IS the Saviour of all mankind, especially those that believe/ trust in Him."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

.... says the false gospel again, and again, and again


tell a lie often enough, and the deceived will start to believe it.....

 

[Jord Simcha]

I said CARM states that aionios means eternal in many verses. I did NOT say all. But I disagree with CARM on that point. My position is that aion means eternity, and nothing else, aionios means eternal, and nothing else.

I wonder then how you read Matthew 24:3. Surely not as the end of eternity, do you?

I showed that in my post #668, which nobody has addressed, ever, although I have posted it many times.

You've shown that it's translated into eternity/eternal most of the time. That's true.

However, from THE PAGAN DOCTRINE OF HELL, "Most Bible versions agree that aion means age or age-lasting in at least 30% of its 128 occurences in the New Testament."

Well if that is true how do we explain both words being used to refer to things which are not eternal? Hyperbole, much the same as we use words hyperbolically. E.g. "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse." "That person is as big as a house." "I had to stand in line forever."etc.

We use an "eternity" in Dutch too, lol. (Since I'm a Christian I stopped doing it.)
Not sure the Bible does it hyperbolically as well. It would explain the double use of aion I suppose. Like tormented forever and ever. For an eternity and an eternity. Or, eternally and in the age to come.

Alright. Now let's read this verse in context.

Rev 22:7
(7) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.​

Why didn't Jesus say "Blessed is everyone?'" According to Jesus in order to be blessed one must keep the prophesies in this book. How can those who died as sinners keep those prophesies? They can't work after death. Joh_9:4 the night cometh, when no man can work.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.​

Here God has already abandoned the unjust and filthy and they will be rewarded according to their work.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie​

Here God makes a distinction between those who obey His commandments and those who do not. Those who do not do God's commandments are NOT blessed, do NOT have the right to the tree of life may NOT enter in through the gates of the city..

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:19
(19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

After your proof text vs. 17 everybody does not get saved not even the unrighteous after death. The penalty for taking away from the words of the prophecy is God will take away their. N.B. This is after vs. 17. Did Jesus get this wrong?

Of course I'm not saying that Jesus got anything wrong.

Most sinners probably don't even know the prophecies of this book, so indeed I don't suppose they keep them. They're indeed not part of the blessed. The distinction made in verse 11, and 14 vs 15 is clear indeed. However, 22:17 comes after that. And you still haven't given your opinion of who it is the Spirit and Bride call out to. I still believe it's the lost we call. I like the translation that they are "without".

You're right there is no happily ever after verse (unless you see the last one as such), but a warning.

 

[FineLinen]

I wonder then how you read Matthew 24:3. Surely not as the end of eternity, do you?

You've shown that it's translated into eternity/eternal most of the time. That's true.

However, from THE PAGAN DOCTRINE OF HELL, "Most Bible versions agree that aion means age or age-lasting in at least 30% of its 128 occurences in the New Testament."


We use an "eternity" in Dutch too, lol. (Since I'm a Christian I stopped doing it.)
Not sure the Bible does it hyperbolically as well. It would explain the double use of aion I suppose. Like tormented forever and ever. For an eternity and an eternity. Or, eternally and in the age to come.

Of course I'm not saying that Jesus got anything wrong.

Most sinners probably don't even know the prophecies of this book, so indeed I don't suppose they keep them. They're indeed not part of the blessed. The distinction made in verse 11, and 14 vs 15 is clear indeed. However, 22:17 comes after that. And you still haven't given your opinion of who it is the Spirit and Bride call out to. I still believe it's the lost we call. I like the translation that they are "without".

You're right there is no happily ever after verse (unless you see the last one as such), but a warning.

Dear Jord: The beloved apostle John who leaned upon the bosom of the Master in intimate union articulated exactly what aionios means>>>>

This IS aionios zoe that we may know You...

Eternal (Eonian) Life - All - Judgment - Jonathan Mitchell's Writings

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Deception by the false gospel bringers is not stopped.

 

[Jord Simcha]

Deception by the false gospel bringers is not stopped.

What can we say? There is a lot in the Bible to support our case. I truly believe it is not false.

Even if it wasn't so ubiquitous in scripture, it just takes one verse. Because a little leaven leavens the whole lump. And this leaven is not from pharisees, but from apostles and prophets.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What can we say? There is a lot in the Bible to support our case. I truly believe it is not false.

Even if it wasn't so ubiquitous in scripture, it just takes one verse. Because a little leaven leavens the whole lump. And this leaven is not from pharisees, but from apostles and prophets.

Wasn't "your case" based on false teachings and false teachers all along ?
Others have admitted when and why they accepted the false teaching, and some recovered from it, some repented, once/after/ they acknowledged the source of their believing (family often, sometimes friend, sometimes a known cult) ...
In any case, get to the source.
Go back to and stay with ALL Scripture as The Father Reveals in His Son Jesus.
Then there is no such dichotomy as you are feeling , thinking or pursuing/hoping for.
In the Light, Who is Jesus, all that darkness flees away.

 

[Jord Simcha]

Wasn't "your case" based on false teachings and false teachers all along ?

Nope, I don't think so. My case is mostly based on scripture. But you might consider all teaching on Universalism false, so then you might say, somebody who is a false teacher in your eyes opened mine. Using many Bible verses, that is.

Others have admitted when and why they accepted the false teaching, and some recovered from it, some repented, once/after/ they acknowledged the source of their believing (family often, sometimes friend, sometimes a known cult) ...
In any case, get to the source.
Go back to and stay with ALL Scripture as The Father Reveals in His Son Jesus.
Then there is no such dichotomy as you are feeling , thinking or pursuing/hoping for.
In the Light, Who is Jesus, all that darkness flees away.

I do try to appreciate all scripture, right now I'm having a universalism binge though (it's possible, there are that many).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Nope, I don't think so. My case is mostly based on scripture. But you might consider all teaching on Universalism false, so then you might say, somebody who is a false teacher in your eyes opened mine. Using many Bible verses, that is.

I do try to appreciate all scripture, right now I'm having a universalism binge though (it's possible, there are that many).

According to Scripture , the false teachers you listen to are blind, and you chose to follow them !?

Not "in my eyes", but in God's Word. The false teachers are popular just for that reason - they willingly lead many in error, and "feel good", while opposing Jesus and contradicting all Scripture (with a wee bit of truth thrown in, like in the Garden, to make the story at least "sound true" ) .....

A universalism binge is ungodly itself - God curses everyone who trusts in the flesh and in the false teachings

Have an immersion in JESUS' LIFE today, a JESUS binge? IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH, as HE WANTS (not as false teachers want and strive daily to deceive little children and adults)

 

[Der Alte]

I wonder then how you read Matthew 24:3. Surely not as the end of eternity, do you?
You've shown that it's translated into eternity/eternal most of the time. That's true.
However, from , "Most Bible versions agree that aion means age or age-lasting in at least 30% of its 128 occurences in the New Testament."
We use an "eternity" in Dutch too, lol. (Since I'm a Christian I stopped doing it.)
Not sure the Bible does it hyperbolically as well. It would explain the double use of aion I suppose. Like tormented forever and ever. For an eternity and an eternity. Or, eternally and in the age to come.
Of course I'm not saying that Jesus got anything wrong.
Most sinners probably don't even know the prophecies of this book, so indeed I don't suppose they keep them. They're indeed not part of the blessed. The distinction made in verse 11, and 14 vs 15 is clear indeed. However, 22:17 comes after that. And you still haven't given your opinion of who it is the Spirit and Bride call out to. I still believe it's the lost we call. I like the translation that they are "without".
You're right there is no happily ever after verse (unless you see the last one as such), but a warning.

I don't care who the bride is, it is irrelevant, whatever you are trying to prove with that is refuted by all the other verses.
The doubling of words such as aionios ton aionios is a Hebraism. Hebrew lacked superlatives so to emphasize a word it was doubled called epezeuxis. Read all about it in "Figures of Speech used in the Bible, by E.W. Bullinger pg 531, 284
Figures of speech used in the Bible:
Here is the first example of epezeuxis in the Bible. For example Gen 2:17.

Gen 2:17. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.​

The English reads "you shall surely die" but the Hebrew reads מות תמות/muth tamuth, dying you shall die.
I think after this I will bid you adieu, you ignore everything I say and keep repeating your same 2-3 proof texts.
nog een fijne dag

 

[Jord Simcha]

According to Scripture , the false teachers you listen to are blind, and you chose to follow them !?

I said you would probably qualify him as a false teacher, not I.

Not "in my eyes", but in God's Word. The false teachers are popular just for that reason - they willingly lead many in error, and "feel good", while opposing Jesus and contradicting all Scripture (with a wee bit of truth thrown in, like in the Garden, to make the story at least "sound true" ) .....

A universalism binge is ungodly itself - God curses everyone who trusts in the flesh and in the false teachings

Maybe I should have said more clearly, a universalism scripture binge. Trying to accumulate them all.

Have an immersion in JESUS' LIFE today, a JESUS binge? IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH, as HE WANTS (not as false teachers want and strive daily to deceive little children and adults)

I'm totally immersed in the Spirit, thanks.

 

[Jord Simcha]

Danke und tschüss @Der Alter

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I said you would probably qualify him as a false teacher, not I.

Just go by Yahuweh's Spirit and Scripture, then you will too.
That's how we know the false teachers - they contradict Jesus , and oppose Scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm totally immersed in the Spirit, thanks.

Noticed you changed what I said, very appropriately too !

Not going immersed in harmony with Jesus either, as the u.r. thing is opposed to Him.

 

[Saint Steven]

The false gospels are more popular in the world than the truth is - it tickles their ears....

Jeff, we are still waiting for you to inform us about what you consider to be the "true" gospel. The unpopular one that doesn't tickle ears. - lol

 

[Lazarus Short]

Noticed you changed what I said, very appropriately too !

Not going immersed in harmony with Jesus either, as the u.r. thing is opposed to Him.

"Opposed to Him"? As in: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."? I Timothy 4:10, KJV

As in: "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."? John 1:29, KJV

Surprise! There are Scriptures that support UR, and you can see it even in the KJV.