• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,768
The land of OZ
✟345,480.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Universialism fills me with godly anger, not because I don't want everyone to be saved, because I do, but because it's leading people to damnation. So many today fall in this pit, it's so easy to believe, yet it's from the mouth of the enemy. It's quenching the Holy Spirit.
Well there you go, picking the wrong "god" for a source concerning the truth, and you did so right after my capitalization grammar lesson. :( So maybe you and your 'icon like below' who apparently also missed it, should be seeking the true God of Godly anger, instead of the "godly anger" of "the god of this world". The god that has spread the lies believed about the true God's plan to save his creation. Just maybe, 'out of the heart' the fingers type what the heart believes is 'your truth'. :idea:
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A forever burning hell is a precious possession to Damnationists. If you try to take it away they will fight you tooth and nail. Here's the question for them.

What do you like best about hell? (since you refuse to let it go)

Keep asking that question! It may impel some people to think.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Universialism fills me with godly anger, not because I don't want everyone to be saved, because I do, but because it's leading people to damnation. So many today fall in this pit, it's so easy to believe, yet it's from the mouth of the enemy. It's quenching the Holy Spirit.

Dear Zoidar: Prior to the mighty move of God known as the Reformation there was the nasty idea we could do something to earn the favour of God.

Our Father loves us. He loves all the bad children of us and will go to any length to bring any who think themselves righteous to a dire knowledge of utter weakness before Him.

Color blindness is a horrible malady, everything is in black and white. My brother, put on the special glasses of His anointing and see what His World looks like.

Give them not hell, but hope and courage. Preach the everlasting love of God.– John Murray

The fact remains—we are God’s offspring, created from a foundation of goodness that has gone wrong. History since the Garden is the gradual story of how God is slowly putting that wrongness right...and will continue to do so. –Michael Phillips

For myself I can say, that if there is a God, and he is such a being as [the Universalist] describes, I can bow before him and give him all my heart. He says God is love, made the world in love, and in perfect wisdom, and well adapted to serve the divine purpose. He then made a family, all of them have sinned, and some of them have fallen very low, but God is determined, according to [the Universalist], to stand by His family, every one of them, let come what will come, till he makes all of them respectable. This standing by His family, as every true Father ought to do, is what I like in [the Universalist's]idea of God. But if there is a God, and he has created a family and will at last turn against most of them, and in burning wrath cast them into Hell forever, as [traditional Christianity] describe(s), I should hate him—he is not as good as I am, for I propose to stand by my family and every member of it for as long as I live. It is an insult to ask me to love and worship a God who is guilty of doing what we would detest in an earthly father. –Robert Ingersoll
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,519
2,681
✟1,048,084.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If you want what we want, and what God wants, what is the problem? I find it very odd that you seem to think people are going to Hell for not believing they are going to Hell. I have even pointed out that believing in Hell may be blasphemy.

Our message should be greeted with joy.

It IS a message of JOY!!! For God so LOVED the world that WHOEVER believes in him will be saved! Gospel means "JOYFUL MESSAGE" or "GOOD NEWS!!!"
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mmksparbud
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,519
2,681
✟1,048,084.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If you want what we want, and what God wants, what is the problem? I find it very odd that you seem to think people are going to Hell for not believing they are going to Hell. I have even pointed out that believing in Hell may be blasphemy.

Our message should be greeted with joy.

The reason for people going to hell is because with universialism there is no need to repent, that's why... Repentance is necessary for salvation.
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,519
2,681
✟1,048,084.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And this was said long before orthodoxy tried to kill the truth that the majority church believed in originally for 500 years.

Do you mean the Church the first 500 years taught universialism? If so you need to back that up.
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It IS a message of JOY!!! For God so LOVED the world that WHOEVER believes in him will be saved! Gospel means "JOYFUL MESSAGE" or "GOOD NEWS!!!"

With Hell involved...not so much. God says to love your enemies. Does He follow His Own advice? Since God so loves the world, His enemy, yes He does. He has gobs of time in which to make Himself known to all. He made Himself real to me when I was still a confident atheist. But I digress...

Question: Is believing your afterlife fate is sealed at the moment of your death really any different than the belief that your fate in life is set by the moment of your birth? I say it isn't so set.

If orthodox Christianity proposes that humanity goes to one of two destinations after death, it's joy is dimmed for a great many. There is no getting around it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The reason for people going to hell is because with universialism there is no need to repent, that's why... Repentance is necessary for salvation.

Agreed! Which of us universalists said repentance is not necessary? I remember repenting before God one night, face down on my carpet, telling God "Sorry!" for recent sins, until I could no longer cry.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,519
2,681
✟1,048,084.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Agreed! Which of us universalists said repentance is not necessary? I remember repenting before God one night, face down on my carpet, telling God "Sorry!" for recent sins, until I could no longer cry.

Why did you repent?
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The ongoing debate reminds me of a local Honda dealer years ago, telling me my Accord needed a valve job. The morning of my appointment, my dad, a former master mechanic, said to wait a minute, and he fetched his compression tester. All cylinders were fine, and I skipped the appointment.

In like manner the Hell-believer says thus and so, or you're going to Hell. The Hell non-believer says, nope, no such place. The issue is that simple.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why did you repent?

The rug was pulled out from under me. My last hope was dashed. I realized what a mess I had made of things. Then I knew Who I needed to say "I'm Sorry!" to...
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,519
2,681
✟1,048,084.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The rug was pulled out from under me. My last hope was dashed. I realized what a mess I had made of things. Then I knew Who I needed to say "I'm Sorry!" to...

... thinking you couldn't get your life in order without God?
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
... thinking you couldn't get your life in order without God?

No one can.

Some weeks before my season of repentance, I was at a crossroads: accept a major change in my life or say what it would take to keep things as they were. I was making up a speech in my head to keep things as they were - another way of saying to keep the flesh happy. But then, an extraordinary thing happened. As I sat there, it was AS IF someone tapped me on the shoulder from behind. It was AS IF a voice spoke to me, but I heard nothing with my physical ears. The Voice said, "What do you think you're about to do?" Then I knew Who had gotten my attention, and based on that I didn't say what I planned, but accepted the change...and that is how I knew Who to repent to later.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,519
2,681
✟1,048,084.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No one can.

Some weeks before my season of repentance, I was at a crossroads: accept a major change in my life or say what it would take to keep things as they were. I was making up a speech in my head to keep things as they were - another way of saying to keep the flesh happy. But then, an extraordinary thing happened. As I sat there, it was AS IF someone tapped me on the shoulder from behind. It was AS IF a voice spoke to me, but I heard nothing with my physical ears. The Voice said, "What do you think you're about to do?" Then I knew Who had gotten my attention, and based on that I didn't say what I planned, but accepted the change...and that is how I knew Who to repent to later.

Ok, thanks for your story!
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ok, thanks for your story!

One more detail: After I repented the Voice told me I was forgiven, and I did better after that. I believed it was God because He advised me against sinning, lined me out about some issues in my life, and everything turned out just as He said they would.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
No.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

And they will---because they do see the justice of it and they do not want to be with God---Satan has no wish to be with God, he wants to be God. They will bow before him and acknowledge His supremacy.

No, but that is what the Damnationists and Annihilationists are up to.
"Believe in Jesus, or burn in hell with no hope of escape. Which would you prefer?" Coercion by threat of harm. Mafia stuff. An offer we can't refuse.

So it is coercion---spend some time in hell until you change your mind---isn't that what you are saying?if hell is a "refining fire"---then we do not need Jesus to have died for our sins---they're "refined away"

Right. I hope you don't think I am claiming that you are not saved. That was not my intent. However, you are probably familiar with that stand being taken by your denomination. Those who aren't Adventists are probably lost. (or will be at the final judgment)


Adventists think no such foolish thing!! We believe many from different denominations will be saved. God makes the decision for only He knows the heart. "Other sheep have I which are not of this fold."
That is a lie that is told by the Anti-SDA's. Even EGW says there are many in other churches that will be saved.





That's a serious consideration.

After weighing the facts I have decided that I would rather be a Universalist and be wrong than a Damnationist and be right.

The greater hope has had a HUGE influence on the way I view life and others. I don't see a world full of hell-bound souls that are not worth my time. I see a world full of souls that will one day bow to Jesus as Lord. They still need to be led to salvation in this lifetime in order to avoid the consequences of not doing so. But God is working in everyone's life at his own pace. People are saved because God saves them, they are not lost because we didn't save them.

We do not save anyone, but we can deter many from making that choice. If we do so, there will be a judgment against us for doing so. They can be lost because you said nothing when you had the chance.
Only The Holy Spirit can lead us to salvation. And that is the sin that is never forgivable---grieving away the Holy Spirit. Which is what the lost have done--they can no longer hear the Holy Spirit, which means they can have no salvation, by their own choice.
But what are the consequences of not choosing salvation? Time in the refining fires of hell? For how long? Yes, He does work at His own pace---unless they have driven away the Holy Spirit.
We see a world full of souls that are seeking the Lord, consciously or unconsciously, and we are to teach them how to come to Him, but as the scriptures say---I quoted those---if you do not warn them of what can happen, their blood will be on your hands.


I agree that we will be held accountable for those in our sphere of influence that we did not witness to. My best friend is agnostic. And I don't hide my faith from anyone. On the other hand, I don't run around beating people over the head with my Bible either.

Consider this. There are a growing number of individuals that will not embrace our God due to our Damnationist or Annihilationist picture of who he is. They could never believe in a God that would do such things. These individuals would obviously be more receptive to a gospel that comes from those of the Universalist POV.

With that in mind, it might be a good idea to be a bit more open to the possibility that we have something important to offer, even if you don't agree with it completely. I have provided a biblical basis, have I not?

Imagine if you and I were at a public social event, not a church event. We were meeting new people and the subject of religion came up. Someone gave their opinion that they could not believe in a God that throws people in hell. Which of us is better equipped to minister to that person?

The truth is the truth. People seek justice and mercy---the parents of the 3 year old want justice for the life of their 3 year old child who was raped and beaten to death---those that died in the haulocaust want justice, the Native American who had his family butchered so some one could have their land want justice, the black slaves want justice. It takes all of 3 secondds to be wanting a burn to end and you will say or do anything to make it stop---Is that what is to be expected as justice from your God? All those priests who molested all those children---they get what? All those men who have beaten their wives' senseless and some of them to death, what do they get---Ask anyone who has been horribly abused, or had a family or loved one abused or killed, some of them tortured---they want justice and where do they get it and what is it. Until a year ago I never even heard of Universalists. The people I've met were horrified at an everlasting burning hell---rightly so, for it is not just---but there are those who think annihilation is a horrible injustice for the murder of millions of people. 5 minutes in the refining fires of hell"---to them is a gross injustice.
I want to believe in and present the truth---no matter what it is. God is love, God is mercy---but He is the only one that can really hand out justice, for He alone can read the heart. You make no room for those who do not wish to live in a world where God reigns---and there are many. You simply refuse to acknowledge that such people exist. But they do. I choose to believe that |God will do what is loving, merciful and just. To me, annhilatilon, makes the most sense, biblically.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Do you mean the Church the first 500 years taught universialism? If so you need to back that up.

Dear Zoidar: That is precisely correct!

 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.