BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That sounds pretty terrible!

Yahuweh Sovereign Creator tells it like it is, and all the whole world was once , and is again, doomed... except for Jesus , the whole world would perish without hope. Now only those who reject Him will be lost forever,
condemned yet willingly , because they would not believe,
condemned for unbelief, because "they would not" let Him gather them to Himself...

 

[martymonster]

What is obvious from reading the scriptures is that God is a consuming fire---except for the saved. The fire comes from Go which can not harm the saved, only the lost.

God's elect go through the fire first, that is why the are not hurt by the second death. They have already been judged, and judgement hurts. It hurts to find out you were a goat when you thought you were a sheep.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That sounds pretty terrible!

Without Christ, it is beyond grasp, and unbearable . Thus, the false gospel wins over those who reject Christ, they get (or remain) won over to the false gospel easily, having nothing to hold on to , nothing to stand on, in truth.

 

[FineLinen]

Yes---one of my favorite passages, quote it often. Without the protection of the blood of Jesus, the wicked can not tolerate the consuming fire that is God. They will perish, they will become ashes, but the saved will be like Meshack, Shadrach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace with Jesus, like the burning bush.

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,

Mark 9: 49

For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defense; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

-Andrew Jukes-

The 2nd Death & The Restitution Of All Things

 

[Skidder]

This came up a week or more ago...

when someone allows their guard against deception down, and starts thinking even a little bit of what the enemy tells him, that appears to open the floodgate for error - they "took in" a little , let the door open to the enemy, and WHAM!, the rest of the enemy's thoughts and temptations become welcome in that person, since they turned away from truth, away from Jesus, away from God the Father, to seek comfort, or other desire(s), and accepted willingly the lies of the enemy - thus darkening their mind, and the eye becoming dark, the whole body is full of darkness, from one small start....

Well said, and thank you!

 

[Skidder]

How can God be omniscient, sovereign, yet not everyone will be saved? It is a philosophical question. Some people solve it by saying God chose some people He wanted saved. Others like me solve it by saying God wants everyone to be saved but not all are, because by free will people are resisting the Holy Spirit. There are other options as well.

I don't see the teaching of universialism in the Bible. We have to ask ourselves, do we see it because we so desperately want it to be true, or because the scripture actually teaches it?

I lost my best friend a few years ago, who wasn't a Christian. Of course I want him to be saved, but honestly, I can't know. I'm leaving it to God. I know God will judge him justly.

Christ has laid a mission on me, and that is to proclaim the gospel, so that as many as possible will know Christ and be saved.

They are not saved because they don't want to be... They have no excuse...
Nobody's innocent. Just by what is created man is without excuse. The Holy Spirit has been poured out on all flesh, convicting the world of SIN, righteousness and judgment, of SIN because the do not believe in Him.

John 16:8
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me

There will be no innocence in hell, those who end up there do so because they choose their sin over the one who died for their sins. They do not come into the light because they love the darkness...

John 3:19-20
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

 

[FineLinen]

So you do support UR?

 

[FineLinen]

How can God be omniscient, sovereign, yet not everyone will be saved? It is a philosophical question. Some people solve it by saying God chose some people He wanted saved. Others like me solve it by saying God wants everyone to be saved but not all are, because by free will people are resisting the Holy Spirit. There are other options as well.

I don't see the teaching of universialism in the Bible. We have to ask ourselves, do we see it because we so desperately want it to be true, or because the scripture actually teaches it?

I lost my best friend a few years ago, who wasn't a Christian. Of course I want him to be saved, but honestly, I can't know. I'm leaving it to God. I know God will judge him justly.

Christ has laid a mission on me, and that is to proclaim the gospel, so that as many as possible will know Christ and be saved.

Dear Zoidar: God has indeed in His sovereign purpose chosen an elect group. The are known as the "especially" in the following>>>

God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially those who believe/ trust in Him.

 

[Skidder]

FineLinen

OK, so let me ask this a different way, maybe then I can get a direct answer. Does a person who rejects Christ unto death, do they suffer in hell for eternity?

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Zoidar: God has indeed in His sovereign purpose chosen an elect group. The are known as the "especially" in the following>>>

God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially those who believe/ trust in Him.

Dear Zoidar: Please note>>>

Especially = malista

Malista does not mean monon or monos.

Monon & monos means only.

Pas = the radical all

God is the Saviour of the malista and all/pas of mankind

 

[mmksparbud]

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,

Mark 9: 49

For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defense; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

-Andrew Jukes-

The 2nd Death & The Restitution Of All Things

The 2nd death is the 2nd death---it is not called the 2nd chance.

 

[Skidder]

The 2nd death is the 2nd death---it is not called the 2nd chance.

Good point!

 

[FineLinen]

OK, so let me ask this a different way, maybe then I can get a direct answer. Does a person who rejects Christ unto death, do they suffer in hell for eternity?

Dear Skid: There is nothing in all of Canon that indicates in any way that our God torments His creation, not now or ever!

“If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again. What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena.” -Robert Ingersoll-

Jesus Christ holds the keys of death and hell & knows how to turn the keys!

 

[FineLinen]

The 2nd death is the 2nd death---it is not called the 2nd chance.

Dear Lady: Our God is not operating a gigantic Heavenly casino of chance! Not 1st chance, not 2nd chance, not third chance. Zero chance!

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace ; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will , according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself :That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will .”

 

[martymonster]

The 2nd death is the 2nd death---it is not called the 2nd chance.

Chance has nothing to do with it.

 

[mmksparbud]

Dear Lady: Our God is not operating a gigantic Heavenly casino of chance! Not 1st chance, not 2nd chance, not third chance. Zero chance!

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace ; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will , according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself :That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will .”

Whatever---it is still the 2nd death and nothing else. If God wanted it to be something else, He'd have called it something else.

 

[Skidder]

Chance has nothing to do with it.

There will be no innocence in hell. Those who end up their do so because they choose their sin over the one who died for those sins. The same one who suffered a BRUTAL DEATH for their sins. They do not come into the light because they HATE THE LIGHT.... AND THIS IS THE CONDEMNATION!

John 3:19-20
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil HATES THE LIGHT and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

How can someone HATE something they don't know is there?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

OK, so let me ask this a different way, maybe then I can get a direct answer. Does a person who rejects Christ unto death, do they suffer in hell for eternity?

For this crowd, wrong question I think.
Even if just for their sake (not that anyone ever deserves this), consider that
they suffer / die/ are destroyed body and soul (remember who Jesus said to fear?) ,
and not
unending... whoever rejects Christ 'til death they do , cannot ever see heaven, that is a given. (in Scripture)
THAT is the first thing someone duped by the false gospel of u.r. would or might have to realize - that cannot be changed, ever.
Where they got the pagan idea of coming to Christ later in the next world, who knows? But FIRST, they must know, it seems, that God's Word is TRUTH, and cannot be changed, and they must give up everything IF they want to be Jesus' disciple (including giving up their false teachers they trusted in the past until now) ....

 

[FineLinen]

Whatever---it is still the 2nd death and nothing else. If God wanted it to be something else, He'd have called it something else.

Dear Lady: The Lake of Fire has two foundational elements, theion and theioo. Those two elements are based upon the One who is Theos.

Your question = what is theion and theioo?

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Skid: There is nothing in all of Canon that indicates in any way that our God torments His creation, not now or ever! It is>>>

“If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again. What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena.” -Robert Ingersoll-

Jesus Christ holds the keys of death and hell & knows how to turn the keys!

Warm words on the cheerful and comforting doctrine of eternal damnation. It is>>>

THE idea of a hell was born of revenge and brutality on the one side, and cowardice on the other. In my judgment the American people are too brave, too charitable, too generous, too magnanimous, to believe in the infamous dogma of an eternal hell.

I have no respect for any human being who believes in it. I have no respect for any man who preaches it. I have no respect for the man who will pollute the imagination of childhood with that infamous lie. I have no respect for the man who will add to the sorrows of this world with the frightful dogma. I have no respect for any man who endeavours to put that infinite cloud, that infinite shadow, over the heart of humanity.

Hell, by Col. Robert G. Ingersoll 2