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BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

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FineLinen

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-Part 2 of 2 Dr. Marvin Vincent-

That aiodios occurs rarely in the New Testament and in LXX does not prove that its place was taken by aionios. It rather goes to show that less importance was attached to the bare idea of everlastingness than later theological thought has given it. Paul uses the word once, in Rom. 1:20, where he speaks of “the everlasting power and divinity of God.” In Rom. 16:26 he speaks of the eternal God (tou aioniou theou); but that he does not mean the everlasting God is perfectly clear from the context. He has said that “the mystery” has been kept in silence in times eternal (chronois aioniois), by which he does not mean everlasting times, but the successive aeons which elapsed before Christ was proclaimed. God therefore is described as the God of the aeons, the God who pervaded and controlled those periods before the incarnation. To the same effect is the title ‘o basileus ton aionon, the King of the aeons, applied to God in 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 15:3; compare Tob. 13:6, 10.

The phrase pro chronon aionion, before eternal times (2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2), cannot mean before everlasting times.

To say that God bestowed grace on men, or promised them eternal life before endless times, would be absurd. The meaning is of old, as Luke 1:70. The grace and the promise were given in time, but far back in the ages, before the times of reckoning the aeons.

Zoe aionios eternal life, which occurs 42 times in N. T., but not in LXX, is not endless life, but life pertaining to a certain age or aeon, or continuing during that aeon. I repeat, life may be endless. The life in union with Christ is endless, but the fact is not expressed by aionios. Kolasis aionios, rendered everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), is the punishment peculiar to an aeon other then that in which Christ is speaking. In some cases zoe aionios does not refer specifically to the life beyond time, but rather to the aeon or dispensation of Messiah which succeeds the legal dispensation. See Matt. 19:16; John 5:39. John says that zoe aionios is the present possession of those who believe on the Son of God, John 3:36; 5:24; 6:47,54. The Father’s commandment is zoe aionios, John 1250; to know the only true God and Jesus Christ is zoe aionios. John 17:3.

Bishop Westcott very justly says, commenting upon the terms used by John to describe life under different aspects: “In considering these phrases it is necessary to premise that in spiritual things we must guard against all conclusions which rest upon the notions of succession and duration. ‘Eternal life’ is that which St. Paul speaks of as ‘e outos Zoe the life which is life indeed, and ‘e zoe tou theou, the life of God. It is not an endless duration of being in time, but being of which time is not a measure. We have indeed no powers to grasp the idea except through forms and images of sense. These must be used, but we must not transfer them as realities to another order.”

Thus, while aionios carries the idea of time, though not of endlessness, there belongs to it also, more or less, a sense of quality. Its character is ethical rather than mathematical.

The deepest significance of the life beyond time lies, not in endlessness, but in the moral quality of the aeon into which the life passes. It is comparatively unimportant whether or not the rich fool, when his soul was required of him (Luke 12:20), entered upon a state that was endless. The principal, the tremendous fact, as Christ unmistakably puts it, was that, in the new aeon, the motives, the aims, the conditions, the successes and awards of time counted for nothing. In time, his barns and their contents were everything; the soul was nothing. In the new life the soul was first and everything, and the barns and storehouses nothing. The bliss of the sanctified does not consist primarily in its endlessness, but in the nobler moral conditions of the new aeon, the years of the holy and eternal God. Duration is a secondary idea. When it enters it enters as an accompaniment and outgrowth of moral conditions.

In the present passage it is urged that olethron destruction points to an unchangeable, irremediable, and endless condition.

If this be true, if olethros is extinction, then the passage teaches the annihilation of the wicked, in which case the adjective aionios is superfluous, since extinction is final, and excludes the idea of duration. But olethros does not always mean destruction or extinction. Take the kindred verb apollumi to destroy, put an end to, or in the middle voice, to be lost, to perish. Peter says “the world being deluged with water, perished (apoleto, 2 Pet. 3:6); but the world did not become extinct, it was renewed. In Heb. 1:11,12, quoted from Ps. 102, we read concerning the heavens and the earth as compared with the eternity of God, “they shall perish” (apolountai). But the perishing is only preparatory to change and renewal. “They shall be changed” (allagesontai). Compare Isa. 51:6,16; 65:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1. Similarly, “the Son of man came to save that which was lost” (apololos), Luke 19:10. Jesus charged his apostles to go to the lost (apololota) sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. 10:6, compare 15:24, “He that shall lose (apolese) his life for my sake shall find it,” Matt. 16:25. Compare Luke 15:6,9,32.

In this passage, the word destruction is qualified.

It is “destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power,” at his second coming, in the new aeon. In other words, it is the severance, at a given point of time, of those who obey not the gospel from the presence and the glory of Christ. Aionios may therefore describe this severance as continuing during the millenial aeon between Christ’s coming and the final judgment; as being for the wicked prolonged throughout that aeon and characteristic of it, or it may describe the severance as characterising or enduring through a period or aeon succeeding the final judgment, the extent of which period is not defined. In neither case is aionios, to be interpreted as everlasting or endless.

If we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5). Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)?

Also, if we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5).

Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)?
 
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Charlie24

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There is "everlasting punishment">>>there is "everlasting destruction". There is NO "eternal damnation"!

Search= "eternal damnation".

There is no eternal damnation found. Please modify search query and try again.

FL, I really do get tired of correcting you! It's become a full time job.

Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
 
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Saint Steven

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If the ultimate destination of mankind is that they all will be saved then we most certainly can live like hell. Period!!!
Anyone can "live like hell", but it will be "hell to pay".
 
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Hillsage

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No, your gospel message is not we die for 3 days....it is ETERNAL DEATH, and not just DEATH, but ETERNAL TORTURING DEATH. I'm sorry but Jesus got off with a 5 minute scourging and a couple hours on a cross that normally took people many many hours to finally die. And part of what he did in that three days with his spirit was preach to those who were in DISOBEDIENCE. So your opinion above doesn't line up with your mantra which we've heard ever since you've been here. The price was never ETERNAL TORTURE or HELL and many bibles, translated more correctly than the one you read, confirm 'that truth'.
 
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Saint Steven

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Keep reading.
We need more good questions. Thanks.
 
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Charlie24

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Anyone can "live like hell", but it will be "hell to pay".

But for a period of time, right? Then all will be forgiven, right? Hogwash!!

Eternal means eternal
Everlasting means everlasting
Forever means forever
Damnation means damnation
 
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Hillsage

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You haven't been paying attention to my posts in the OSAS threads or maybe failed to see them more likely.

I do NOT give consent to OSAS, it is a false teaching. There are many other Baptists that believe the same.
You're right, I never saw those threads. You're wrong, you just don't understand what part of you is OSAS and which part isn't. So it's you with the false teaching in more than one area of doctrine....IMO, of course.
 
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Saint Steven

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But for a period of time, right? Then all will be forgiven, right? Hogwash!!
How long is a period of time?
Should the punishment/correction fit the crime?
 
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Hillsage

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Jesus took my place on the Cross, not in Hell.
No unbeliever is going to end up on the cross in your theology. Wake up to what you're saying.
To even ask the question "why didn't Christ take your place in hell" proves you have never read the Bible, let alone understand the plan of God for mankind.
To say I've never read the bible proves a whole lot here to a whole lot of people, concerning your ability to judge things natural, let alone things spiritual Charlie.
 
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Charlie24

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You're right, I never saw those threads. You're wrong, you just don't understand what part of you is OSAS and which part isn't. So it's you with the false teaching in more than one area of doctrine....IMO, of course.
What does this mean?
Rev. 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Can God take your part out of the Book of Life if it is not in the Book of Life?
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus was resurrected---and we will be too---but there is no resurrection from the 2nd death. He paid the price for the saved---not for the lost!
 
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Hillsage

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Eternal means eternal
Everlasting means everlasting
Forever means forever
Damnation means damnation
And every thing you just said means you have never studied like we have studied...concerning 'the BIBLE', that is.
 
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Hillsage

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Jesus was resurrected---and we will be too---but there is no resurrection from the 2nd death. He paid the price for the saved---not for the lost!
Don't change the subject. If you don't understand YOUR gospel don't even think you understand the most spiritually metaphorical book of the bible.
 
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Charlie24

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Man, I don't even know what you are saying!

"No unbeliever is going to end up on cross in your theology."
 
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Hillsage

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Quit dodging the reason I"m even dialoguing with you. If you don't even know your gospel how can I even bother taking you into deeper waters concerning your understanding of the book of life.

So just stick with your gospel and the price of sin for anyone not accepting Jesus, which is ETERNAL HELL "AND ETERNAL torture.... which was ETERNALLY worse than Adolf Hitler could even possibly achieve.
 
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mmksparbud

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Don't change the subject. If you don't understand YOUR gospel don't even think you understand the most spiritually metaphorical book of the bible.

What are you talking about?? I only answered your post and I MOST CERTAINLY DO UNDERSTAND WHAT GOD HAS SAID And that is exactly what I have stated. It is you that has no comprehension at all about what happens after death. All you guys can do is quote endless, useless passages from others like you who haven't got a clue about any of it! You are leading others to false doctrines and that is more than sad.
 
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Lazarus Short

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FL, I really do get tired of correcting you! It's become a full time job.

Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Or, it could go this way: "but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment." Mark 3:29, YLT

I tend to gravitate to one-man translations instead of those produced by a committee, a creature my namesake, Lazarus Long, described as "a creature with at least six legs...and no brain."
 
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Charlie24

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You're the only person I've talked to on this forum that I can't for the life of me understand what you are talking about. I haven't had this problem with anyone else.

Please just state your problem with me or my belief plainly and maybe I can respond.
 
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Charlie24

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Laz, it can mean anything you want it to mean.

We will all answer to God for what we have done with His Word.

David said that God has placed His Word above His name.

That's pretty serious and I'm very sure God would not have allowed His Word to translated incorrectly concerning a subject this serious.
 
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