BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

Shrewd Manager · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
LOL!! They are devoured---they are enclosed within this fire while in the act of attacking the city of God. Unrepentant sinners. How did they get the time to repent and have the blood of Jesus forgive their sins so that the fire could not hurt them? They didn't. You have shown nothing that states anyone has come out of the lake of fire to praise and worship God. They are dead.
Psa_115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

There is no cleansing fire for the lost--there is only the cleansing blood of Jesus which the sinners rejected and therefore had no protection from being destroyed by it. All you have shown me is how very wrong your ideas are and contradictory to how the bible reads. God never breaks His promises--

Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. You still have not read post #1063 have you?
Exo_32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Their names were blotted out of the book of life. What God says, He does right? Those not written in the book of life are lost and when Jesus returns He comes only for the saved---the promises of God for eternal life are for the saved. Nowhere does it say God has promised eternal life to those blotted out of the book of life --what has been promised them is destruction by His consuming fire. You are leading people down the wide path to destruction, not the narrow path to life eternal with Jesus. The new earth, the New Jerusalem with it's forever opened gates are for those who have accepted the cleansing blood of Jesus. The lost get destroyed and what the fire cleanses is the earth and ashes that are all that is left of any sinner.
In the time since I first heard of this delusion, nothing has been proven to me that it has any biblical support whatsoever. Wishful thinking derived from verses that are for the saved, not the lost.

You forget the nations return in Rev 21:24 to worship - all the nations, as promised in Rev 15:4:

"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED."

The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

And get the healing in Rev 22:2:

and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

So, re the promise that all the nations will come worship. What becomes of that, do you say?

And if they all get devoured by fire in Rev 20:9, how do you account for their presence in Rev 21:24 and eligibility for healing in 22:2?

I might add that your answers to date have been evasive and inadequate in addressing the plain purport of these compelling passages: the promise and its fulfilment.

mmksparbud · Dec 11, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
You forget the nations return in Rev 21:24 to worship - all the nations, as promised in Rev 15:4:

"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED."

The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

And get the healing in Rev 22:2:

and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

So, re the promise that all the nations will come worship. What becomes of that, do you say?

And if they all get devoured by fire in Rev 20:9, how do you account for their presence in Rev 21:24 and eligibility for healing in 22:2?

I might add that your answers to date have been evasive and inadequate in addressing the plain purport of these compelling passages: the promise and its fulfilment.

That's all the saved nations. There is no verse describing the exit of anyone from the lake of fire that go on to have eternal life with God. All the wicked nations have been destroyed when they try to take over the city. There is no time for anyone to have received the protecting blood of Jesus from His devouring fire---they are destroyed while in the process of trying to take the descending city by force and are immediately destroyed. Trying to take the city by force shows there is no repentance.
Again--the wicked are resurrected and immediately gather together to try to take over the city--They are killed while they are sinner's---there is no verse saying they come out of the lake of fire to praise God---have repeatedly showed you that.

All the saved nations will come and worship before H9m---those are the only ones that can---the wicked are dead and ashes under their feet.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Shrewd Manager · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
That's all the saved nations.

Yes all the nations are saved, saved are all nations, nations are all saved (Rev 16:5, Is 66;23, Ps 86:9).

mmksparbud said:
There is no verse describing the exit of anyone from the lake of fire that go on to have eternal life with God.

How do you explain the return of the nations in Rev 21:24 for healing in 22:2 if they were zapped in 20:9?

mmksparbud said:
All the saved nations will come and worship before H9m---those are the only ones that can---the wicked are dead and ashes under their feet.

The nations are all those who are gathered by satan from the 4 corners of the earth to besiege Jerusalem. There are no other nations after the 1000 years. So again, how is it they turn up later in the story?

FineLinen · Dec 11, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Yes all the nations are saved, saved are all nations, nations are all saved (Rev 16:5, Is 66;23, Ps 86:9).

How do you explain the return of the nations in Rev 21:24 for healing in 22:2 if they were zapped in 20:9?

The nations are all those who are gathered by satan from the 4 corners of the earth to besiege Jerusalem. There are no other nations after the 1000 years. So again, how is it they turn up later in the story?

Dear Shrewd: Our God has a glorious Plan. It is centered in Himself with consultation with no one.

"The Spirit of God, the Master, is on me because God anointed me. He sent me to preach good news to the poor, heal the heartbroken, announce freedom to all captives, pardon all prisoners."

I doubt if in your neck of the woods there are any poor or heartbroken or any in need of pardon or deliverance.

BUT

I just returned from the grocery store after beholding a young girl in a reclining wheelchair pushed by her precious mother in dire need of much deliverance!

The WHOLE of created life shall be delivered/ set free/ emancipated

Skidder · Dec 11, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
They are cleansed and purified of their sins by the love of Christ.

Then I said: “Woe is me, for I am ruined, because I am a man of unclean lips dwelling among a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of Hosts.” Then one of the seraphim flew to me, and in his hand was a glowing coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. And with it he touched my mouth and said: “Now that this has touched your lips, your iniquity is removed and your sin is atoned for." (Is 6:6-6:8)

The hot coal from the divine fire on the lips treatment works for a man of unclean lips. How much more so full immersion in that selfsame fire. The blood of Christ IS the fire of God.

Without the blood of Christ there is no atonement for sins. And this redemption, the forgiveness of sins, is only IN CHRIST by faith. If they are not IN CHRIST they have not been washed from their sins; therefore they will die in their sins. This is a false salvation from sin apart from faith; therefore it is a FALSE GOSPEL.

Skidder · Dec 11, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Shrewd: Our God has a glorious Plan. It is centered in Himself with consultation with no one.

"The Spirit of God, the Master, is on me because God anointed me. He sent me to preach good news to the poor, heal the heartbroken, announce freedom to all captives, pardon all prisoners."

I doubt if in your neck of the woods there are any poor or heartbroken or any in need of pardon or deliverance.

BUT

I just returned from the grocery store after beholding a young girl in a reclining wheelchair pushed by her precious mother in dire need of much deliverance!

The WHOLE of created life shall be delivered/ set free/ emancipated

Not by your false UR gospel they wont. Sin is only atoned for through the blood of Christ, and this forgiveness is only IN CHRIST by faith. If they reject the Christ they reject the redemption through His blood that is only IN CHRIST! You preach a false salvation from sin apart from faith.

FineLinen · Dec 11, 2019

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WATCH: Deaf Baby Hearing Mom Say "I Love You" for the First Time Is Too Precious for Words

mmksparbud · Dec 11, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Yes all the nations are saved, saved are all nations, nations are all saved (Rev 16:5, Is 66;23, Ps 86:9).

How do you explain the return of the nations in Rev 21:24 for healing in 22:2 if they were zapped in 20:9?

The nations are all those who are gathered by satan from the 4 corners of the earth to besiege Jerusalem. There are no other nations after the 1000 years. So again, how is it they turn up later in the story?

The lost nations are destroyed, only the saved nations get to inherit the remade earth and the Holy City and live eternally with God.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

They do not come out of this!! They are devoured by the fire of God---they die in their rebellion against Him! They will never inherit the kingdom of God. You keep asking the same question and I keep answering the same question and you still refuse to see what you read. You twist the word--0-0there are 2 groups of nations---not one---the nations that Satan gathers are the lost and they are destroyed in their rebellion against God in trying to take over the city. The nations that that are saved are all those nations that followed the Lord and were resurrected at His 2nd coming and are with Him in heaven during the 1000 years in the city with God and which the nations of the wicked have gathered together to overtake it. It is not vague it is not hidden. The lost nations of Satan perish, the saved nations of God are forever with Him.

Jord Simcha · Dec 11, 2019

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Romans 11:26-28

Is this not evidence that enemies of the Gospel can get saved (eventually/after death)?

mmksparbud · Dec 11, 2019

Jord Simcha said:
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Romans 11:26-28

Is this not evidence that enemies of the Gospel can get saved (eventually/after death)?

Just exactly where does this verse---or any verse---state that salvation can come after death?

Jord Simcha · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Just exactly where does this verse---or any verse---state that salvation can come after death?

They're enemies of the Gospel, that in itself states they aren't saved, but verse 26 says they will be.

mmksparbud · Dec 11, 2019

Jord Simcha said:
They're enemies of the Gospel, that in itself states they aren't saved, but verse 26 says they will be.

Nothing says it will be after death.

Jord Simcha · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Nothing says it will be after death.

Are you suggesting it's during their lifetime? Is all of Israel Christian? No, that's right, they're enemies of the Gospel but shall be saved.

Skidder · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Just exactly where does this verse---or any verse---state that salvation can come after death?

Good point. If we can change salvation to fit one false gospel, why not change it to fit a 100? This UR teaching is ridiculous, and not even close to the truth.

mmksparbud · Dec 11, 2019

Jord Simcha said:
Are you suggesting it's during their lifetime? Is all of Israel Christian? No, that's right, they're enemies of the Gospel but shall be saved.

There is no salvation after death. The decision has been made. All of the living Jews can be saved if they choose Jesus. The dead can not change their minds. Again. There is not one single verse that states anyone comes out of the lake of fire to praise God and spend eternity with Him. All living enemies of God have their lifetime to choose Him.

PuerAzaelis · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
LOL! All saved nations. Again. Read post #1063

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Those that go into the lake of fire are not written in the book of life. The fire does not cleanse them but devours them.

Hebrews 12:29 NLT
For our God is a devouring fire.

Jord Simcha · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
There is no salvation after death. The decision has been made. All of the living Jews can be saved if they choose Jesus. The dead can not change their minds. Again. There is not one single verse that states anyone comes out of the lake of fire to praise God and spend eternity with Him. All living enemies of God have their lifetime to choose Him.

I know you like to center the discussion on the lake of fire (which I think, most of Israel will have to undergo too), but you honestly leave me wondering what your interpretation of Romans 11:26-28 is.

FineLinen · Dec 11, 2019

PuerAzaelis said:
Hebrews 12:29 NLT
For our God is a devouring fire.

Indeed He is Puer, do you know where the entire creation will dwell?

With Him!

Shrewd Manager · Dec 11, 2019

mmksparbud said:
The lost nations are destroyed, only the saved nations get to inherit the remade earth and the Holy City and live eternally with God.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

They do not come out of this!! They are devoured by the fire of God---they die in their rebellion against Him! They will never inherit the kingdom of God. You keep asking the same question and I keep answering the same question and you still refuse to see what you read. You twist the word--0-0there are 2 groups of nations---not one---the nations that Satan gathers are the lost and they are destroyed in their rebellion against God in trying to take over the city. The nations that that are saved are all those nations that followed the Lord and were resurrected at His 2nd coming and are with Him in heaven during the 1000 years in the city with God and which the nations of the wicked have gathered together to overtake it. It is not vague it is not hidden. The lost nations of Satan perish, the saved nations of God are forever with Him.

Of them which are saved cannot be correct in view of Gen 22:18 Rev 16 4 and the rest which all speak of salvation of ALL the nations. So now God's short changing us is He to suit your theological preferences? Well I said I'd save all nations...but I lied. Your god.

Der Alte · Dec 11, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Yes all the nations are saved, saved are all nations, nations are all saved (Rev 16:5, Is 66;23, Ps 86:9).
How do you explain the return of the nations in Rev 21:24 for healing in 22:2 if they were zapped in 20:9?
The nations are all those who are gathered by satan from the 4 corners of the earth to besiege Jerusalem. There are no other nations after the 1000 years. So again, how is it they turn up later in the story?

This is the heterodox practice known as "proof texting," select disparate verses which seem to support a particular view and ignore everything else.
Where does God, Himself, and/or Jesus, Himself say all mankind will be healed, saved, reconciled etc. even after death? For example Is 66:23 when read alone does seem to say that all flesh, of all mankind who ever lived, will be saved, but let's read the very next verse.

Isaiah 66:23-24
(23) And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
(24) And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

If all flesh is saved in vs. 23 who are those dead men carcasses that the people in vs. 23 are looking at in vs. 24?

BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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