BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[Skidder]

Dear Skidd: You then believe the God equation is totally equal on each side?

many= many>>>some =some>>>all =all>>>polus = polus


"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The ‘eternal state’ is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the 'final perfection' yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God." –Vladamir Gelesnoff-

I believe that salvation from sin is only IN CHRIST not outside or apart from Christ in any way. A person has to be IN CHRIST to have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. And if they keep rejecting Christ unto death, THEY WILL DIE IN THEIR SINS.

 

[FineLinen]

I agree it is....sad, but true.


I find it hard to not give an account for the faith that is in me. But it does seem to be a crack in the door.

It is undoubtedly pretty tough for 'the church' to admit they've missed it for '1500 years'....tough also meaning 'humbling' hmmm. Oh they have no problem saying they haven't believed in plenty of the early church's post 500 AD false doctrines for the last 500 years. But eternal hell just slipped through.....like a big elephant.

I suppose it would be like the dental profession admitting they thought putting mercury amalgam in peoples mouths all these years, was perfectly safe. All the while they're treating it's very presence in the office lab as the very 'toxic thing' it is.

Dear Sage: One small crack will lead to a huge fissure. One finally awakens from their deep sleep to realize a new Day is breaking! Thank God for the Master of ephphatha.

 

[Der Alte]

...

I agree it is....sad, but true. I find it hard to not give an account for the faith that is in me. But it does seem to be a crack in the door.
It is undoubtedly pretty tough for 'the church' to admit they've missed it for '1500 years'....tough also meaning 'humbling' hmmm. Oh they have no problem saying they haven't believed in plenty of the early church's post 500 AD false doctrines for the last 500 years. But eternal hell just slipped through.....like a big elephant.
I suppose it would be like the dental profession admitting they thought putting mercury amalgam in peoples mouths all these years, was perfectly safe. All the while they're treating it's very presence in the office lab as the very 'toxic thing' it is.

Nonsense. See my post [#1035], above. Where I document that "Eternal hell" didn't slip through it was there in Israel before and during the time of Jesus. Note that the word for the place where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die is NOT a Greek word but Gehenna which was transliterated from the Hebrew word "Ge Hinnom." And it does not refer to the valley near Jerusalem.

 

[FineLinen]

I believe that salvation from sin is only IN CHRIST not outside or apart from Christ in any way.

Yup!

I Believe

I believe in "the restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouths of the prophets since the world began." -Acts 3:21-

I believe that the "good tidings of great joy will be to all people." -Luke 2:10

I believe that believers in Christ Jesus are "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God." -John 1:13-

I believe

I believe that God appointed Jesus Christ "heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe." -Hebr. 1:2-

I believe that "no man can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Him draws him." -John 6:44

I believe "God gave Jesus authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as God gave him." -John 17:2-

I believe

I believe the Father "has given all things into Jesus' hands." -John 13:3-

I believe that Jesus Christ "was the true light which gives light to every man who come into the world." -John 1:9

I believe that "just as the result of one trespass was condemnation to all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification for all men." -Romans 5:18

I believe one mans sin "brought condemnation for all mankind." -Romans 5: 19-

I believe one mans righteousness brings "right relationship with God, and new life for everyone." -Romans 5:19-

I believe one mans sin made the whole of mankind sinners. I also believe the righteousness of one Man makes the whole of mankind righteous.

 

[Skidder]

I believe one mans sin made the whole of mankind sinners. I also believe the righteousness of one Man makes the whole of mankind righteous.

Yes, but only IN CHRIST. If you say otherwise you are proclaiming they have salvation from sin apart from faith. Salvation from sin is only IN CHRIST, not outside of Him in anyway. HE IS THE PROPITIATION, and apart from Him there is only sin and death.

 

[Hillsage]

No I don't. Why do you have such a problem with the meaning of IN CHRIST? Do you honestly think redemption is separate from person of Jesus Christ? Do you believe those who reject Christ are washed from their sins in His blood?

We have no problem with the meaning of IN CHRIST. It happens when you bow the knee and confess Jesus is Lord. That's true in this age and in the ages to come. And for those who were never "called, drawn, chosen, elected" by God to do so in tis age because they never had the 'first' chance YOU DID then they too will make the confession to believe upon seeing just like doubting Thomas AND the Gentiles who were ordained to believe in Acts 13.

ACT 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

So, as you can seen not a problem at all. Now you PROVE SCRIPTURALLY how God can be considered 'merciful' and 'forgiving' for a pittance of his creation when Jesus died for ALL. Especially when He never gave them what they needed TO BELIEVE. And that includes REPENTANCE.

2TI 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, 26 and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

I know you can justify telling someone they're heavenly Father is going to send them to eternal hell as being "but kindly", but then your heart and my heart are obviously wired differently.

 

[Hillsage]

Nonsense. See my post [#1035], above. Where I document that "Eternal hell" didn't slip through it was there in Israel before and during the time of Jesus. Note that the word for the place where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die is NOT a Greek word but Gehenna which was transliterated from the Hebrew word "Ge Hinnom." And it does not refer to the valley near Jerusalem.

"That hurts me to the quick. But I shall trudge on bearing this painful loss in silence"....to you

 

[Der Alte]

...

"That hurts me to the quick. But I shall trudge on bearing this painful loss in silence"....to you

Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is the perfect picture for how I feel about most of your statements!

 

[Hillsage]

Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Judging me "wicked" as you attempt to "pursueth" me to waste my time with you, only looks like un-"righteousness".

 

[Skidder]

We have no problem with the meaning of IN CHRIST. It happens when you bow the knee and confess Jesus is Lord. That's true in this age and in the ages to come. And for those who were never "called, drawn, chosen, elected" by God to do so in tis age because they never had the 'first' chance YOU DID then they too will make the confession to believe upon seeing just like doubting Thomas AND the Gentiles who were ordained to believe in Acts 13.

ACT 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

So, as you can seen not a problem at all. Now you PROVE SCRIPTURALLY how God can be considered 'merciful' and 'forgiving' for a pittance of his creation when Jesus died for ALL. Especially when He never gave them what they needed TO BELIEVE. And that includes REPENTANCE.

2TI 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, 26 and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

I know you can justify telling someone they're heavenly Father is going to send them to eternal hell as being "but kindly", but then your heart and my heart are obviously wired differently.

First of all, we don't choose to believe what we want because how we "feel". God's righteousness does not work according man's feelings.

Because God is JUST and RIGHTEOUS He allows FREE WILL. There will be no innocence in hell. God does not force the free gift of life on anyone who HATES THE LIGHT. God is JUST therefore sin must be dealt with. And the only way is through the righteous lamb of God who TOOK that sin upon Himself when He suffered a BRUTAL DEATH on a lonely hill called Calvary.

John 3:19-21
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 FOR EVERYONE PRACTICING EVIL HATES THE LIGHT and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

There is no greater wisdom than the wisdom found IN CHRIST, a wisdom that can only be found through the "foolishness" of the message preached...

And what could be more foolish than the idea that Christ's atoning work took away the sin of the world, and revived all who died in Adam? That by the cross God reconciled the world to Himself, that He made the pledge, guarantee and seal of the promise of restoration of all things IN, BY AND THROUGH CHRIST?

Bro Skidder, you have a high Christology. But do you shy away from the TOTAL VICTORY OF CHRIST? If Jesus' mission is to be a success, then the whole world must be saved through him. He must cast the holy dragnet over all of creation and haul in the catch. And who is stronger, the fish in the net or the winch that operates it?

 

[Skidder]

And what could be more foolish than the idea that Christ's atoning work took away the sin of the world, and revived all who died in Adam? That by the cross God reconciled the world to Himself, that He made the pledge, guarantee and seal of the promise of restoration of all things IN, BY AND THROUGH CHRIST?

Bro Skidder, you have a high Christology. But do you shy away from the TOTAL VICTORY OF CHRIST? If Jesus' mission is to be a success, then the whole world must be saved through him. He must cast the holy dragnet over all of creation and haul in the catch. And who is stronger, the fish in the net or the winch that operates it?

I do not shy away from Christ Crucified. It's the offense of the cross that people shy away from. TOTAL VICTORY is only IN CHRIST not outside of Christ. We are not of those who separate the blood from salvation.

God GAVE his Son as a sacrifice, atonement, propitiation, payment, redemption, sanctification, justification, reconciliation, the resurrection and the life, etc.. all IN HIM, THROUGH HIM, and BY HIM! We lack nothing IN CHRIST! Salvation from sin is IN CHRIST and IN CHRIST ALONE! At Calvary we were not given a “partial payment” but the SON OF GOD IN FULL, not just the “action”, but the PERSON OF CHRIST HIMSELF. Through that sacrifice God offered HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD!! He is the ATONING SACRIFICE! Rebirth can only happen upon death, and that death is only granted to those who are partakers of HIS BODY AND BLOOD! FAITH IN CHRIST grants access through the VEIL that was TORN… HIS FLESH! And through the BLOOD OF THE COVENANT we are BORN OF THE SPIRIT!! JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE because HE is the RESURRECTION, and He is the resurrection because HE IS THE SACRIFICE! And because he is the sacrifice HE IS THE PAYMENT. And that is why HIS BODY and BLOOD are not separate from ETERNAL LIFE. Therefore redemption is not separate from the redeemer.

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
IN WHOM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is IN CHRIST JESUS,

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are IN CHRIST JESUS, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption

 

[FineLinen]

"Any true definition of Christian Universalism MUST INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God is all Sovereign, loving, powerful, wise, just, and ultimately rules over everything. It MUST ALSO INCLUDE the belief that salvation is only by faith in God and was finalized by Jesus Christ "who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:6). The definition of Christian Universalism DOES INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God "will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4)."

No more let sin and sorrow grow, nor thorns infest the ground, He comes to make His blessings flow FAR AS THE CURSE IS FOUND.

"Curse = katathema = an accursed thing

"Curse = anathematizo = devoted to destruction

" No more" = meketi = no further

"Sin" = hamartia = Missing the mark

Death = thanatos = separation from God

Vanity = mataiotes = empty

 

[Shrewd Manager]

The 3 S's are at it again.

The author of this magnificent beware = Skidder

Shrewd & Saint Steve = HOPE

Dear Shrewd: You will never know the joy you and St. Steve are to my weary soul.

This is another quality post.

"If everybody does not love Jesus, it's only that everybody has not met him yet."

My precious wife lives with Mr. Trouble and only she could mount up with wings like an eagle to deal with the rascal.

Holland has just paid us a visit (Hello my brother Jord). And to Lazarus & Hillsage & Marty Monster & MkGal know this: there are indications that across this little globe of ours individuals are reaching out for higher ground. Yes, dear ones, we cry for Him!

Thank you for keeping the lamp burning in these dark days F.L.. Your wife won't need to search for that silver coin.

Yes it could be that satan's deceived army of angry sinners are converging in their wrath from the 4 corners across the broad plain of the earth, and the holy fire treatment only a heartbeat away.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I do not shy away from Christ Crucified. It's the offense of the cross that people shy away from. TOTAL VICTORY is only IN CHRIST not outside of Christ. We are not of those who separate the blood from salvation, or are we?

God GAVE his Son as a sacrifice, atonement, propitiation, payment, redemption, sanctification, justification, reconciliation, the resurrection and the life, etc.. all IN HIM, THROUGH HIM, and BY HIM! We lack nothing IN CHRIST! Salvation from sin is IN CHRIST and IN CHRIST ALONE! At Calvary we were not given a “partial payment” but the SON OF GOD IN FULL, not just the “action”, but the PERSON OF CHRIST HIMSELF. Through that sacrifice God offered HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD!! He is the ATONING SACRIFICE! Rebirth can only happen upon death, and that death is only granted to those who are partakers of HIS BODY AND BLOOD! FAITH IN CHRIST grants access through the VEIL that was TORN… HIS FLESH! And through the BLOOD OF THE COVENANT we are BORN OF THE SPIRIT!! JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE because HE is the RESURRECTION, and He is the resurrection because HE IS THE SACRIFICE! And because he is the sacrifice HE IS THE PAYMENT. And that is why HIS BODY and BLOOD are not separate from ETERNAL LIFE. Therefore redemption is not separate from the redeemer.

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
IN WHOM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is IN CHRIST JESUS,

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are IN CHRIST JESUS, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption

So welcome to universalism Skidder. Total victory can only mean the salvation of all, for Yeshua is GOD'S SALVATION, and his mission not to condemn the world, but to SAVE it from its condemnation to death due to its love of sin. Something greater than the world, sin, death and the devil is here.

If everyone does not love Jesus, it's only because everyone has not met him yet.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

It is undoubtedly pretty tough for 'the church' to admit they've missed it for '1500 years'....tough also meaning 'humbling' hmmm. Oh they have no problem saying they haven't believed in plenty of the early church's post 500 AD false doctrines for the last 500 years. But eternal hell just slipped through.....like a big elephant.

I suppose it would be like the dental profession admitting they thought putting mercury amalgam in peoples mouths all these years, was perfectly safe. All the while they're treating it's very presence in the office lab as the very 'toxic thing' it is.

All conspiracies may be traced back to the devil. 'Follow the money', say the hard-nosed Roman cops. And behind the money is the control over those who love it most, he who waters the root of all of evil.

So when I complained to my previous church about their statement of faith being restricted to ECT eschatology, I was dumped post-haste. Something told me I was interfering in church business. Tithes and donations rolling in on the back of the Big Threat, never spoken, all superficial rejoicing in the gifts of the Spirit. Sorry, but it's just the same old corrupt officials hawking indulgences, and arsonists selling fire insurance premiums.

So we have found the way, by the grace of God. Church hierarchy hates universalism because it exposes their evil motives.

 

[FineLinen]

WATCH: Deaf Baby Hearing Mom Say "I Love You" for the First Time Is Too Precious for Words

 

[Skidder]

So welcome to universalism Skidder. Total victory can only mean the salvation of all, for Yeshua is GOD'S SALVATION, and his mission not to condemn the world, but to SAVE it from its condemnation to death due to its love of sin. Something greater than the world, sin, death and the devil is here.

If everyone does not love Jesus, it's only because everyone has not met him yet.

Only IN CHRIST, not outside of Christ is their redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

I think your getting the veil being torn open for all mixed with the idea that everyone has passed through the veil (Crucified with Christ). The veil has been torn open for all, but unless a person believes they have not been reconciled in the body of his flesh through death. Unless the body ruled by sin has been crucified with Christ there is NO FORGIVENESS through HIS BLOOD. Our co-death with Christ only happens upon faith in Christ. Reconciled in the body of His flesh through death we are granted access to the mercy seat. Those outside of Christ have have not been crucified with Christ, washed in His blood, and raised and seated with Christ in the heavenlies. They are not partakers of His body and blood, therefore they are not IN CHRIST. And those who have rejected the Christ... they do not have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Would you call it wisdom to separate "the resurrection and the life" from the Christ? Would you call it wisdom to separate "the WAY, the TRUTH and THE LIFE" from the CHRIST? Than why do you think it's OK to separate the SACRIFICE/PAYMENT from THE CHRIST? He is the LAMB who was slain! The sacrifice is His body and blood. The same body that was crucified for our sins is the same body that was buried, saw no decay, and was raised on the third. Yes, this is the same body that ascended on high and set the captives free. And yes WE WERE RECONCILED in this same body not apart from HIM! A person who has rejected the Christ rejects this reconciliation through the veil (His flesh), otherwise they would a be seated with Christ in the heavenlies, and without blame before the Father.

Colossians 1:20-22
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

If everybody, including those who reject Christ (those who hate the light), were all reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, they would also be holy and blameless in His sight. And if that's the case this UR is nothing more than "Universal Salvation". Which is nothing more than a false salvation from sin apart from faith. Is this the false gospel you have put your faith in?

 

[Lazarus Short]

What part of IN CHRIST is such a mystery to you?
You are free to separate the blood from salvation, and that is your choice, but I'm also free to expose those who do. Only IN CHRIST do we have REDEMPTION through His blood, the forgiveness of sins!! Not APART from HIM in anyway. HE IS REDEMPTION.

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIMwe have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
IN WHOM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is IN CHRIST JESUS,

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are IN CHRIST JESUS, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption

OK, I have no problem with your quoted verses...but what in the world makes you think I or any other UR believer separates the blood from salvation? Salvation is of, by and through Jesus the Christ and we all understand it. So where does your rant come from?

You're going to need a bigger argument.