Bethlehem

[AV1611VET]

I wouldn't say I have one. Do you?

Nope ... I've never accused you of having one.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Nope ... I've never accused you of having one.

Your problems with English grammar, reading comprehension and answering questions notwithstanding, are you going to have a proper go at replying to the point put to you?

 

[Carmella Prochaska]

Two accounts in the New Testament describe Jesus as being born in Bethlehem. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus' parents lived in Nazareth and travelled for the Census of Quirinius to Bethlehem of Judea, where Jesus was born, after which they returned home. The Gospel of Matthew account implies that the family lived in Bethlehem of Judea, where Jesus was born and from which they later fled to Nazareth to escape persecution. Matthew says that Herod the Great, told that a 'King of the Jews' has been born in Bethlehem, ordered the killing of all the children aged two and under in the town and surrounding areas. Joseph is warned of this in a dream, and the family escapes this fate by fleeing to Egypt and returning only after Herod has died. It should be noted that Bethlehem was not a big town, with only a few hundred inhabitants, and that there would not have been that many male babies, so the slaughter need not have been mentioned by ancient biographies due to its relatively small scale.

Early Christians interpreted a verse in the Book of Micah as a prophecy of the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem. The birth of Lord Jesus is a fulfillment of prophecy and implies a connection to the lineage of King David. The Gospel of Mark and the Gospel of John do not include a nativity narrative, but refer to him only as being from Nazareth.

The existence of early traditions of Jesus' birth in Bethlehem is attested by the Christian apologist Justin Martyr, who stated in his Dialogue with Trypho that the Holy Family had taken refuge in a cave outside of the town. Origen of Alexandria, writing around the year 247, referred to a cave in the town of Bethlehem which local people believed was the birthplace of Jesus.

But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past. (Micah 5:2)

 

[AV1611VET]

Your problems with English grammar, reading comprehension and answering questions notwithstanding, are you going to have a proper go at replying to the point put to you?

No ... hopefully for obvious reasons.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No ... hopefully for obvious reasons.

Quite obvious.

 

[Rilke's Granddaughter]

Two accounts in the New Testament describe Jesus as being born in Bethlehem. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus' parents lived in Nazareth and travelled for the Census of Quirinius to Bethlehem of Judea, where Jesus was born, after which they returned home. The Gospel of Matthew account implies that the family lived in Bethlehem of Judea, where Jesus was born and from which they later fled to Nazareth to escape persecution. Matthew says that Herod the Great, told that a 'King of the Jews' has been born in Bethlehem, ordered the killing of all the children aged two and under in the town and surrounding areas. Joseph is warned of this in a dream, and the family escapes this fate by fleeing to Egypt and returning only after Herod has died. It should be noted that Bethlehem was not a big town, with only a few hundred inhabitants, and that there would not have been that many male babies, so the slaughter need not have been mentioned by ancient biographies due to its relatively small scale.

Early Christians interpreted a verse in the Book of Micah as a prophecy of the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem. The birth of Lord Jesus is a fulfillment of prophecy and implies a connection to the lineage of King David. The Gospel of Mark and the Gospel of John do not include a nativity narrative, but refer to him only as being from Nazareth.

The existence of early traditions of Jesus' birth in Bethlehem is attested by the Christian apologist Justin Martyr, who stated in his Dialogue with Trypho that the Holy Family had taken refuge in a cave outside of the town. Origen of Alexandria, writing around the year 247, referred to a cave in the town of Bethlehem which local people believed was the birthplace of Jesus.

But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past. (Micah 5:2)

The census didn't happen; Jesus wasn't both under the time of the Censor; even during the real census, Joseph would not have traveled to Bethlehem, even had been born there.

The entire thing appears to be made up in order to connect Jesus to Micah.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

No ... hopefully for obvious reasons.

Yes, it's obvious you can't answer without admitting that the reasons you have for refusing to even look at one old piece of writing by a human author can equally well be applied to any other old piece of writing by a human author, whatever book it appears in.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The census didn't happen; Jesus wasn't both under the time of the Censor; even during the real census, Joseph would not have traveled to Bethlehem, even had been born there.

The entire thing appears to be made up in order to connect Jesus to Micah.

Quite so -- and it should be added -- the entire thing appears to have been made up by Luke -- Matthew wrote a completely different fairy tale, straight out of the OT.

That leaves three NT figures -- Paul, Mark, and John -- with nothing to say on the topic. One would think that Paul would've mentioned something interesting about Jesus' birth -- had he known anything.

 

[46AND2]

Two accounts in the New Testament describe Jesus as being born in Bethlehem. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus' parents lived in Nazareth and travelled for the Census of Quirinius to Bethlehem of Judea, where Jesus was born, after which they returned home. The Gospel of Matthew account implies that the family lived in Bethlehem of Judea, where Jesus was born and from which they later fled to Nazareth to escape persecution. Matthew says that Herod the Great, told that a 'King of the Jews' has been born in Bethlehem, ordered the killing of all the children aged two and under in the town and surrounding areas. Joseph is warned of this in a dream, and the family escapes this fate by fleeing to Egypt and returning only after Herod has died. It should be noted that Bethlehem was not a big town, with only a few hundred inhabitants, and that there would not have been that many male babies, so the slaughter need not have been mentioned by ancient biographies due to its relatively small scale.

Early Christians interpreted a verse in the Book of Micah as a prophecy of the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem. The birth of Lord Jesus is a fulfillment of prophecy and implies a connection to the lineage of King David. The Gospel of Mark and the Gospel of John do not include a nativity narrative, but refer to him only as being from Nazareth.

The existence of early traditions of Jesus' birth in Bethlehem is attested by the Christian apologist Justin Martyr, who stated in his Dialogue with Trypho that the Holy Family had taken refuge in a cave outside of the town. Origen of Alexandria, writing around the year 247, referred to a cave in the town of Bethlehem which local people believed was the birthplace of Jesus.

But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past. (Micah 5:2)

Got a question for you, Carmella...

Why does Luke state that Jesus returned to the temple in Jerusalem every year until he was 12, when Matthew states that they had to avoid Jerusalem out of fear of Herod's son Archelaus?

 

[dad]

Whoever said anything about proof? The article did not claim to prove anything. it merely presented evidence which was discovered by archaeologists, and a possible explanation for that evidence, which can be further tested with more research in the future.

If the bible indicates Judea as the vicinity Bethlehhem was, then trying to suggest it is wrong is a doubt.


""The New Testament was written by people who knew Jesus and Mary, and was written nearly 2,000 years before Oshri's theory," Billington said. "Contrary to what Oshri has suggested, there is not one single ancient Christian source which places the birth of Christ anywhere other than in Bethlehem in Judah, which is also where Micah 5:2 predicted the Jewish Messiah would be born."

Archaeologist Believes Jesus Was Born in a Different Bethlehem

 

[TLK Valentine]

If the bible indicates Judea as the vicinity Bethlehhem was, then trying to suggest it is wrong is a doubt.

So what?

 

[dad]

So what?

So I was right in calling it a doubt.

 

[46AND2]

So I was right in calling it a doubt.

Again, so what? I never said you were wrong about it being a doubt.

 

[dad]

Again, so what? I never said you were wrong about it being a doubt.

Great. So a doubt it is then. From this thread obviously a baseless doubt to boot.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Great. So a doubt it is then. From this thread obviously a baseless doubt to boot.

You still haven't read the articles -- not baseless at all.


And for the third time, so what if it's a doubt?

 

[46AND2]

Great. So a doubt it is then. From this thread obviously a baseless doubt to boot.

You have failed to establish the "baseless" part. There were many given lines of reasoning for the doubt, and you addressed none of them.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You have failed to establish the "baseless" part. There were many given lines of reasoning for the doubt, and you addressed none of them.

Well the problem is that dad is too fixated on the "doubt" part to address reasons or evidence. The entire notion of "doubt" so paralyzes him with fear that he pretty much sets himself up to fail.

 

[dad]

You still haven't read the articles -- not baseless at all.


And for the third time, so what if it's a doubt?

I did look at the link...and even quoted some of it. If you want to pretend it contained some factual evidence just simply give the relevant few sentences, or stay down.

 

[dad]

You have failed to establish the "baseless" part. There were many given lines of reasoning for the doubt, and you addressed none of them.

Name just 3 reasons then and I will be all over them. Here...now.

 

[dad]

Well the problem is that dad is too fixated on the "doubt" part to address reasons or evidence. The entire notion of "doubt" so paralyzes him with fear that he pretty much sets himself up to fail.

I do not fear doubt, I recognize it for what it is. I also expose it for what it is not...factual evidence.