Bethlehem

[TLK Valentine]

It was either He or some other than lived at the exact same time.

Or none -- they's always the possibility that in spite of the good press our friend from Nazareth received, the Messiah turned out to be a no-show after all.

 

[dad]

Or none -- they's always the possibility that in spite of the good press our friend from Nazareth received, the Messiah turned out to be a no-show after all.

That makes Last Thusdayism look like something of great depth. Shall we pretend Paul never lived then, and all the rest, to suit your desire to omit God from the stage?



“The empty vessel makes the loudest sound.”

 

[TLK Valentine]

That makes Last Thusdayism look like something of great depth.

Right up your alley, then.

Shall we pretend Paul never lived then, and all the rest, to suit your desire to omit God from the stage?

You think Paul is God?

 

[dad]

Right up your alley, then.

Not at all, my game is not your game.

You think Paul is God?

You got that from mentioning his name? Paul and others did see Jesus and know the prophesies though and died to verify that it was true.


You not only need another Messiah in the exact time of Jesus, He had to be born of a virgin in Bethlehem, enter Jerusalem on an ass, be killed in a manner described in Isa 53, and Psalm 22 etc etc etc.



“You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things!”

 

[TLK Valentine]

You got that from mentioning his name?

Got that from your connecting them.

Paul and others did see Jesus and know the prophesies though and died to verify that it was true.

So, you think truth is determined by a body count? You're right -- your game isn't isn't my game.

You not only need another Messiah in the exact time of Jesus, He had to be born of a virgin in Bethlehem, enter Jerusalem on an ass, be killed in a manner described in Isa 53, and Psalm 22 etc etc etc.

You mean everything exactly as the Gospel writers who knew the prophecies described it?

 

[AV1611VET]

You not only need another Messiah in the exact time of Jesus, He had to be born of a virgin in Bethlehem, enter Jerusalem on an ass, be killed in a manner described in Isa 53, and Psalm 22 etc etc etc.

You mean everything exactly as the Gospel writers who knew the prophecies described it?

Dad is right on the mark.

Jesus was portrayed in Isaiah 11/Psalm 72 as ruling; but He was also portrayed in Isaiah 53/Psalm 22 as suffering.

Between these two paradoxes is the Church Age, a.k.a. the Dispensation of Grace, which was not foretold in the Old Testament; even Paul calls it a "mystery."

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Peter says even the angels desired to look into this.

1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

When Jesus, Who fulfilled Isaiah 53/Psalm 22 in His first advent, comes back, He will fulfill Isaiah 11/Psalm 72 in His second advent.

 

[dad]

Got that from your connecting them.

Crossed wires, then.

So, you think truth is determined by a body count? You're right -- your game isn't isn't my game.

Bodies of men who knew Jesus and His family and friends and events. To wave them all off (as well as the old testament and it's people, that foretold the time and events) is a shameful and ignorant and dangerous thing. Life and death are set before us, trifle not with them.

You mean everything exactly as the Gospel writers who knew the prophecies described it?

The record was made and preserved, and what a record!






“Foul whisperings are abroad”

 

[TLK Valentine]

Dad is right on the mark.

This may be the first time on these boards that those words were ever used.

Jesus was portrayed in Isaiah 11/Psalm 72 as ruling; but He was also portrayed in Isaiah 53/Psalm 22 as suffering.

We've clearly seen the "suffering" part; Jury's still out on the ruling.

Between these two paradoxes is the Church Age, a.k.a. the Dispensation of Grace, which was not foretold in the Old Testament; even Paul calls it a "mystery."

So much for that, then -- we're currently living in thousands of years of unprophecized grey area.

Peter says even the angels desired to look into this.

1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

So let them look -- if they're so willing to share their agenda with Peter, why not share their findings as well?

When Jesus, Who fulfilled Isaiah 53/Psalm 22 in His first advent, comes back, He will fulfill Isaiah 11/Psalm 72 in His second advent.

That's nice -- let us know when that ever happens.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Crossed wires, then.

I've often suspected you of a short-circuit somewhere along the line.

Bodies of men who knew Jesus and His family and friends and events.

But bodies, nonetheless.

To wave them all off (as well as the old testament and it's people, that foretold the time and events) is a shameful and ignorant and dangerous thing.

Nope, nope, and nope. Not seeing the shame, the ignorance, nor the danger of treating mythology as such -- no matter who's more willing to die rather than live for it.

Life and death are set before us, trifle not with them.

I do more than trifle -- if these are your ideas of life and death issues, I tell them to take a hike.

Let the dead bury their dead.

The record was made and preserved, and what a record!

Indeed -- the record is quite fascinating to study...

 

[dad]

I've often suspected you of a short-circuit somewhere along the line.

Not my wires that were crossed.

But bodies, nonetheless.

Would you prefer ghosts??

Nope, nope, and nope. Not seeing the shame, the ignorance, nor the danger of treating mythology as such -- no matter who's more willing to die rather than live for it.

Then disrespect your betters on your own time.

I do more than trifle -- if these are your ideas of life and death issues, I tell them to take a hike.

You tell mountains to move? Should we pretend they listened?

Let the dead bury their dead.

OK.

Indeed -- the record is quite fascinating to study...

Yes. The Bethlehem of David, where do you think it is?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Not my wires that were crossed.

Indeed -- "fried" is more of the general consensus

Would you prefer ghosts??

It wouldn't be the first time a believer's tried to use spectral evidence to convince a skeptic.

Then disrespect your betters on your own time.

Which betters are those? The dead followers, or the living windbags?

You tell mountains to move? Should we pretend they listened?
OK.

Now who's got their wires crossed? I don't speak to mountains -- walls, sometimes, it seems, but not mountains.

Yes. The Bethlehem of David, where do you think it is?

I think it's where the evidence shows it to be, and not the mythology and desperate need for a self-fulfilling prophecy needs it to be.

After all, I'm committed to truth, not maintaining a story -- I have no emotional stake in where the evidence leads.

Can you say the same?

 

[dad]

Indeed -- "fried" is more of the general consensus

Don't blame me for your problems. It wasn't what you said, plain and simple.

It wouldn't be the first time a believer's tried to use spectral evidence to convince a skeptic.

General slander.

Which betters are those? The dead followers, or the living windbags?

Both, and anything else that walked or crawled.

Now who's got their wires crossed? I don't speak to mountains -- walls, sometimes, it seems, but not mountains.

Well my ideas didn't listen any more than mountains.

I think it's where the evidence shows it to be, and not the mythology and desperate need for a self-fulfilling prophecy needs it to be.

So where is that?

After all, I'm committed to truth, not maintaining a story -- I have no emotional stake in where the evidence leads.

Says you.

Can you say the same?

The evidence already led. You have nothing to even present let alone lead anything anywhere.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Don't blame me for your problems. It wasn't what you said, plain and simple.

Blame you? You're my entertainment!

General slander.

Sad truth.

Both, and anything else that walked or crawled.

So now you're just making stuff up, is that it? flummoxed beyond coherence at last, hmmm?

Well my ideas didn't listen any more than mountains.

That would put you someone in the "brick wall" category -- to the surprise of absolutely nobody.

So where is that?

Well, we thought it was one place, but now there's a possibility it's somewhere else -- haven't you been paying attention?

Says you. The evidence already led. You have nothing to even present let alone lead anything anywhere.

I didn't say I was leading -- that's your allegation. I follow the evidence.

Seriously, dad... have you considered a nap?

 

[dad]

Well, we thought it was one place, but now there's a possibility it's somewhere else -- haven't you been paying attention?

Exact reasons summarized?