Bethlehem

[46AND2]

Interesting article. Curious as to what the Christians here think:

Dig Finds Evidence Of Another Bethlehem : NPR

What would it mean to you if it could be determined that Jesus was born in Galilee, instead of Judea?

 

[AV1611VET]

Interesting article. Curious as to what the Christians here think:

Dig Finds Evidence Of Another Bethlehem : NPR

Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Matthew 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

The other Bethlehem was within the borders of the tribe of Zebulun.

Joshua 19:15 And Kattath, and Nahallal, and Shimron, and Idalah, and Bethlehem: twelve cities with their villages.

What would it mean to you if it could be determined that Jesus was born in Galilee, instead of Judea?

It would mean scientists got it wrong again.

If the Lord doesn't come soon, I believe that scientists will eventually show every single verse in the Bible to be in error (from their perspective, that is), as the tares will outgrow the wheat.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Interesting article. Curious as to what the Christians here think:

Dig Finds Evidence Of Another Bethlehem : NPR

What would it mean to you if it could be determined that Jesus was born in Galilee, instead of Judea?

It makes more sense. There was no reason for Joseph to go to the historical Bethlehem. The supposed census that he was going home for did not occur until Jesus was about 10.

 

[46AND2]

Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Matthew 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

It would mean scientists got it wrong again.

If the Lord doesn't come soon, I believe that scientists will eventually show every single verse in the Bible to be in error (from their perspective, that is), as the tares will outgrow the wheat.

Did God clean up afterward, like he did the flood, and leave no Herodian artifacts in Judean Bethlehem?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Funny, I was just reading another article on the same topic: Whither the birthplace of Jesus? O little town of Bethlehem vs. the littler village of Bethlehem of the Galilee | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

It makes more sense. There was no reason for Joseph to go to the historical Bethlehem. The supposed census that he was going home for did not occur until Jesus was about 10.

And even if we forgive the mistiming of the census, the notion of people packing up and schlepping off to the city of their ancestors is utterly ludicrous -- especially if it has Joseph heading to a completely different province. Why would the Romans care about where your ancestors came from more than where you are?

At most, it's unlikely that Nazareth would have any sort of government offices of its own, so Joseph would have to go as far as Tiberias (the capital of Galilee) and register there.

The trip to Judea only makes sense in one context -- as a literary device exclusive to Luke. The prophecies say that the Messiah was born in the city of David, and so it must be written into the story somehow.

 

[Strathos]

Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Matthew 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

The other Bethlehem was within the borders of the tribe of Zebulun.

Joshua 19:15 And Kattath, and Nahallal, and Shimron, and Idalah, and Bethlehem: twelve cities with their villages.

It would mean scientists got it wrong again.

If the Lord doesn't come soon, I believe that scientists will eventually show every single verse in the Bible to be in error (from their perspective, that is), as the tares will outgrow the wheat.

Can't wait until they disprove Ecclesiastes 3:19

 

[46AND2]

Can't wait until they disprove Ecclesiastes 3:19

I find it ironic that Christians think that the Bible makes SOOO much more sense when you are a believer. I found the exact opposite. When you subtract the bias and presuppositions, the Bible is clear as day.

 

[Strathos]

Even atheists tell me they like that verse

 

[46AND2]

Even atheists tell me they like that verse

Okay...there are quite a few verses I like in the Bible.

But the intent of your post was clear. You think it's foolish that atheists try to disprove parts of the Bible. But what you don't understand is that many instances in which the Bible has been questioned, it is because people were looking for evidence to SUPPORT the Bible, and then found something else.

And to a person who is not looking at the Bible through rose colored glasses, those discrepancies make perfect sense. While Christians are left scrambling to find "possible" interpretations which can explain it.

Jesus was "prophesied" to come from Bethlehem in Judea. But the figure that these people thought was the messiah was born in Galilee. Even John implies this when people are confused about following someone who was from Galilee. So Matthew and Luke HAD to come up with an explanation for Jesus' birth being in Judea in order to "fulfill" prophecy. So they fabricated two different (and contradictory) explanations in order to provide that link.

Take the bias away, and those accounts make perfect sense...when you realize they were written with an agenda.

 

[Steve Petersen]

It makes more sense. There was no reason for Joseph to go to the historical Bethlehem. The supposed census that he was going home for did not occur until Jesus was about 10.

How about Joseph attending one of the three pilgrimage festivals? Bethlehem in Judea is only a few miles from Jerusalem.

 

[46AND2]

How about attending one of the three pilgrimage festivals? Bethlehem in Judea is only a few miles from Jerusalem.

What does a modern festival cash cow have to do with the history of antiquity?

 

[Strathos]

I am not a Biblical literalist

 

[Steve Petersen]

What does a modern festival cash cow have to do with the history of antiquity?

Ummm.....

Deuteronomy 16: 16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty:

While the Temple stood, pilgrimages to Jerusalem were enjoined on Jewish males. Joseph and family may have been staying in Bethlehem while attending one of these.

 

[46AND2]

Ummm.....



While the Temple stood, pilgrimages to Jerusalem were enjoined on Jewish males. Joseph and family may have been staying in Bethlehem while attending one of these.

Ah, sorry. Misunderstood your post.

Regardless, if there was a legitimate reason to go to Bethlehem, why didn't Luke SAY that instead of making up some cockamamie story about a census that required people to return to the land of their 1000 year old ancestors?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How about attending one of the three pilgrimage festivals? Bethlehem in Judea is only a few miles from Jerusalem.

What would be the point of that?

 

[Steve Petersen]

What would be the point of that?

I was referring to Joseph attending, not you.

 

[46AND2]

I was referring to Joseph attending, not you.

Do you realize why Subduction Zone and I misinterpreted your post in the same way?

That is pure speculation on your part, and nothing in the text suggests anything of the sort. Luke specifically says that Joseph went there for the census because he was from the house of David.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that Christians are left to ponder a "possible" interpretation, when a standard reading of the text shows a clear bias of attempting to "fulfill" a prophecy.

 

[dad]

Interesting article. Curious as to what the Christians here think:

Dig Finds Evidence Of Another Bethlehem : NPR

What would it mean to you if it could be determined that Jesus was born in Galilee, instead of Judea?

Hard to say how and why they are wrong when the reasons for the claim are not given in the article. It says this..



" But Israeli archaeologists now say there is strong evidence that Christ was born in a different Bethlehem, a small village in the Galilee."

So---what is it!!??


Hopefully not this..

"He also found artifacts which showed that a few centuries later the community had become Christians and had built a large and ornate church."

So a few centuries later some Christians built some church??




Bethlehem of Judea would seem to mean a Bethlehem in Judea.

 

[46AND2]

Hard to say how and why they are wrong when the reasons for the claim are not given in the article. It says this..



" But Israeli archaeologists now say there is strong evidence that Christ was born in a different Bethlehem, a small village in the Galilee."

So---what is it!!??


Hopefully not this..

"He also found artifacts which showed that a few centuries later the community had become Christians and had built a large and ornate church."

So a few centuries later some Christians built some church??




Bethlehem of Judea would seem to mean a Bethlehem in Judea.

Yes dad, that is entirely what they are basing their conclusion on. C'mon. Read the freaking article.

 

[Jade Margery]

Hard to say how and why they are wrong when the reasons for the claim are not given in the article. It says this..

" But Israeli archaeologists now say there is strong evidence that Christ was born in a different Bethlehem, a small village in the Galilee."

So---what is it!!??

Hopefully not this..

"He also found artifacts which showed that a few centuries later the community had become Christians and had built a large and ornate church."

So a few centuries later some Christians built some church??

Bethlehem of Judea would seem to mean a Bethlehem in Judea.

Y'know, it's amazing how people can close their minds to things right in front of their eyes. I mean, Dad here HAD to read at least part of the article to get to those quotes, yes? Yet he cannot read the ones directly after or before it?

Here's a bullet list of why they think this may be the correct Bethlehem.

-Artifacts show it was a Jewish community inhabited during the correct time period, rendering it possible

-Evidence that before the 4th century, it was actively celebrated as the birthplace of Christ by early christians

-Only 7 km away from Nazareth instead of 150 km, which would have been a difficult trip for a nine-months-pregnant woman on a donkey, and also there is no fathomable reason why a census would require people to travel that far.

-Evidence that the town of Bethlehem in Judea was not inhabited during the period when Christ is supposed to have been born.

Another article about it, which gets more specific about said evidence: National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com

Quote: “If the historical Jesus were truly born in Bethlehem,” Oshri adds, “it was most likely the Bethlehem of Galilee, not that in Judaea. The archaeological evidence certainly seems to favor the former, a busy center [of Jewish life] a few miles from the home of Joseph and Mary, as opposed to an unpopulated spot almost a hundred miles from home.”

Also amusing that the last quote in that particular article is:

"Oshri, however, doubts that Bethlehem of Galilee will be recognized as the birthplace of Jesus any time soon. “Business interests are too important,” he says. “After all this time, the churches do not have a strong interest in changing the Nativity story.”"

Considering this was written four years ago, I'd tend to agree. Yup, who cares about truth when you've built your business on falsehoods? Just let the sheep keep worshiping the wrong place, it's not like it -matters- where they go. One town is a good as the next if you can convince enough people to believe you.