Best Argument For or Against God's Existence

[quatona]

The point of p1 is things do not begin to exist (or come into being) without a cause, whether the cause is material or immaterial. P1 makes no distinction.

Since you kept appealing to P1 as a scientifically estabished law: Yes, science does make a distinction. An immaterial cause for something material "beginning to exist" would be, by scientific standards, an exceptional claim.
So I am still wondering where you pulled this alleged axiom (with the meaning of "cause" that you reveal in your conclusion).

 

[quatona]

And guess what..
If you met Him today, and He proved His existence to you, what do you think you would do ?
I will tell you what you would do: You would spit in His face!
You would spit in His face, grab Him by the balls, and tell Him to relinquish His throne and power over to you.
Thats what you would do.

Amazing psychic powers you got there! I always need strangers to tell me what I would do if....

Let´s assume for a moment your prophecy were correct: What is your point in presenting it here?

 

[Berean777]

...

 

[paulm50]

You are proof that He exists.

You are a beautiful human being, ALIVE, breathing + tasting + feeling + loving + thinking; YOU ARE PROOF!

So god had a lot of tries at making us so great, and got it right eventually.

As for "the problem of evil", are you saying that you do not believe in God because He did not give you a perfect heavenly paradise to live in? Are you ungrateful for everything He has given you to the point that you hate Him for not giving you everything else that you heart desires? In what way do you deserve a perfect, sinless, love-filled, non-violent, peaceful world?

And do you not know... God gave us that world, and we chose to destroy it!
And He came down from Heaven to live with us, and we chose to kill Him!

This paradise has been killing life since the beginning. It's basic design is what's killing. So what's to be grateful about?

And guess what..
If you met Him today, and He proved His existence to you, what do you think you would do ?
I will tell you what you would do: You would spit in His face!
You would spit in His face, grab Him by the balls, and tell Him to relinquish His throne and power over to you.
Thats what you would do.

If I met him, I would ask him why he's been killing so many of us. Even the bible says he kills us.

And yet you think you deserve Heaven on earth.
You don't deserve anything but eternal suffering in Hell!

I don't think I deserve any more than I work for. As for Hell, have you seen it? Because all I see is people at the top enjoying a lot here and telling me I will get my reward or punishment after I die. It never worries them they might go to Hell, so why should it worry me?

But: here's the good news: even though you are such a wretched beast, He still loves you. He still wants you He still died for you

Warm regards,
-Taylor

He should of stayed alive or come back and solve some of the problems. And if you think he's responsible, his problems.

Do you think your circular logic works for everyone?

It works great for those with no real answers.

The problem most "blind faith" believers is they never look outside a small box, let alone think. They don't understand how easy it is to produce life given the right elements. Bacteria and mold, can be created easily. Only needs something to feed on. Give it a 5 million years and who knows what it will be, it could stand up and bite, or swim and bite.

And that's how life started. The Prokaryotes, Archaea and Bacteria. And not all in one book the evidence for the first life on earth is in 1,000s of books by 1,000s of scientists adding to it all the time. They can't dispute it, so have to go around in circles, occasionally quoting from a book written in a time when making Bronze was the peak of science. Recounting stories from a time when Stone Knapping was the height of science.

Did god make the soup that made the first life? Maybe, but from then on we have so many steps proven, it's a wonder people still insist on telling us we were made by any god.

 

[paulm50]

And guess what..
If you met Him today, and He proved His existence to you, what do you think you would do ?
I will tell you what you would do: You would spit in His face!
You would spit in His face, grab Him by the balls, and tell Him to relinquish His throne and power over to you.
Thats what you would do.

Many people have claimed to have met god, Jesus, or the new messiah, or a different messiah. Do I really need to list them all?

In the 1999 film Joan of Arc, Dustin Hoffman stars and at first we're led to believe he's playing god. At the end he reveals, he's only playing Joan talking to herself. Murders ordered by god. Worse still is god told me to do it defence. Given that kind of power of blind faith, God told me to end the tyranny.

Best advice to anyone who meets god is spit in his face. Because it's better than thinking he told you to press the button. He told Bush to kill 100,000s, land the US in deeper debt and devastate the region.

Unless he was lying, then we have to consider. Maybe others were lying because they wanted the land the people were living on.

 

[Joshua260]

You ignored the rest of my post (in bold):

To clarify, given that most cosmologists and philosophers are apparently atheists, there are a few possibilities worth considering: (1) they have never heard of the KCA; (2) they have heard of the KCA and either (a) find it unconvincing or (b) find it convincing but do not draw theological conclusions from it.

Or 3 you are confusing the conclusion of the KCA version I offered for discussion:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for its existence"
...with some other version:
"Therefore, God exists."

I've been asking for a list of scientists who disagree with the conclusion of the KCA as I represented it:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for it's existence."
Please provide a list of scientists who claim that the universe does not have a cause for it's existence.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Or 3 you are confusing the conclusion of the KCA version I offered for discussion:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for its existence"
...with some other version:
"Therefore, God exists."

I've been asking for a list of scientists who disagree with the conclusion of the KCA as I represented it:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for it's existence."
Please provide a list of scientists who claim that the universe does not have a cause for it's existence.

So the KCA is not an argument for the existence of God? Or do you think that 2b is likely?

 

[Joshua260]

Given that our causal intuitions developed in a universe of physical laws, such as F=ma, we cannot be certain that those intuitions would remain intact in the absence of those laws.

You are begging the question by using this "causal intuitions" phrase because how could intuitions exist without people, eh? However, the reality that effects have causes is not contingent on the existence of people.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You are begging the question by using this "causal intuitions" phrase because how could intuitions exist without people, eh? However, the reality that effects have causes is not contingent on the existence of people.

This response doesn't even make sense. You are appealing to our causal intuitions, not me. So how am I begging the question?

 

[quatona]

I've been asking for a list of scientists who disagree with the conclusion of the KCA as I represented it:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for it's existence."

Are you asking about their professional claims (i.e. results of their researches) or about their private beliefs?
I think the latter are irrelevant for any intent or purpose, and in regards to the first:
1. I am not aware there a such results, and
2. If considering scientific statements, you´d need to be aware of the scientific definitions of the terms used. "Cause", in the scientific terminology doesn´t mean what you´d like it to mean.

 

[Joshua260]

So the KCA is not an argument for the existence of God? Or do you think that 2b is likely?

I think the traits that we can extrapolate for the cause suggest a narrow list which include God. I'm still waiting on your list of scientists who claim that the universe did not have a cause for its existence. Should I expect this list anytime soon?

 

[Colter]

Got any proof of that?

Well, I have some proof that you hate God and his faithful to the point of joining a Christian forum to antagonize belivers. The proof of our faith is in the lives that we live.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I think the traits that we can extrapolate for the cause suggest a narrow list which include God.

What are you extrapolating from?

I'm still waiting on your list of scientists who claim that the universe did not have a cause for its existence. Should I expect this list anytime soon?

That's not what I claimed.

 

[quatona]

Well, I have some proof that you hate God and his faithful to the point of joining a Christian forum to antagonize belivers. The proof of our faith is in the lives that we live.

This is a thread dedicated to put a particular argument to scrutinity, and it was opened by a "faithful".
So your antagonizing general rants are uncalled for here.

And if your posts are part of the life you live, I´m not sure they are proof what you feel they are proof for.

 

[Colter]

This is a thread dedicated to put a particular argument to scrutinity, and it was opened by a "faithful".
So your antagonizing general rants are uncalled for here.

And if your posts are part of the life you live, I´m not sure they are proof what you feel they are proof for.

I was responding to another but I see the truth in my reply applied to the motivation of your presence here as well.

 

[quatona]

I was responding to another but I see the truth in my reply applied to the motivation of your presence here as well.

Your psychic skills are lacking. Better not quit your day job.

 

[Colter]

Your psychic skills are lacking. Better not quit your day job.

That may be but you did respond to my reply to another so ???

 

[quatona]

That may be but you did respond to my reply to another so ???

Yes, so....?

 

[bhsmte]

it can

With the right psychological need circular reasoning works.

 

[paulm50]

I'm still waiting on your list of scientists who claim that the universe did not have a cause for its existence.

You're asking for a list of scientist who don't even consider this a real question. They're still looking for the cause, I gave you a list of the research. Here it is again. What caused the big bang?

Well, I have some proof that you hate God and his faithful to the point of joining a Christian forum to antagonize belivers. The proof of our faith is in the lives that we live.

As for hating god. How can I hate something I don't even know exists? What I do hate is people who have jumped on the faith band wagon to manipulate others. From mass murder to eating a wafer in church.

Being good doesn't require any of the ritual or belief in a mystical power. And the evidence is a lot of people who did or do believe, were or are evil.