Believing VS Knowing

[believeume]

I believe in my wife because I know her. Belief and knowledge are not mutually exclusive things.

Selah.

Yes, but thats not exclusive of physicality.

Unlike Jesus.

 

[Serving Zion]

If Jesus is real, why do Christian's say they believe in him. Shouldn't they say I know him?

Indeed. When I was new in faith, this was a criteria that I specifically required, when consulting a Christian for advice. Simply asking that question is enough to determine whether that person is "abiding in Christ" (John 15:4) or walking in the darkness (1 John 1:6, John 12:35), being only a hearer of The Word and not a doer of it (James 1:22).

These scriptures should be useful too:

Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 22:11-14
John 10:1
John 5:39-40
2 Timothy 4:3-4
Jude 1:16-19
2 Corinthians 4:2-3

How can one believe something they know?

He is a person. Your question makes better sense to say "How can one believe someone they know?". The answer to that, is faith vs. doubt. God's objective is to make us grow into stronger faith, so that we may represent Him with confidence. So, we trust Him more and more as we experience more and more of His faithfulness.

 

[Inkfingers]

If Jesus is real, why do Christian's say they believe in him. Shouldn't they say I know him?

How can one believe something they know?

The greek word πιστεύω, pisteou, is translated as "believe" but means "trust in" and "commit to". It's not just some kind of wilful denial of fact (which is how you seem to present it) but a concept that encompasses and includes knowledge rather than being opposed to it.

 

[believeume]

Indeed. When I was new in faith, this was a criteria that I specifically required, when consulting a Christian for advice. Simply asking that question is enough to determine whether that person is "abiding in Christ" (John 15:4) or walking in the darkness (1 John 1:6, John 12:35), being only a hearer of The Word and not a doer of it (James 1:22).

These scriptures should be useful too:

Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 22:11-14
John 10:1
John 5:39-40
2 Timothy 4:3-4
Jude 1:16-19
2 Corinthians 4:2-3

He is a person. Your question makes better sense to say "How can one believe someone they know?". The answer to that, is faith vs. doubt. God's objective is to make us grow into stronger faith, so that we may represent Him with confidence. So, we trust Him more and more as we experience more and more of His faithfulness.

Doesn't having a relationship with only thoughts in your head make you sick, it did for me.

 

[believeume]

The greek word πιστεύω, pisteou, is translated as "believe" but means "trust in" and "commit to". It's not just some kind of wilful denial of fact (which is how you seem to present it) but a concept that encompasses and includes knowledge rather than being opposed to it.

Well fact means little to me, knowing something for me is beyond fact.

 

[Geralt]

that scripture is true (what is written about christ, what christ said, the redemption story, etc..).

And what do they know is true?

 

[believeume]

that scripture is true (what is written about christ, what christ said, the redemption story, etc..).

Ok, I thought truth was some supreme understand of the nature of life, that I never got.

 

[St_Worm2]

What a relief, but why did I miss the mark for so long. How is it possible to reach the right faith now?

Hi again Believeume, it's pretty simple actually. I'll try to explain more about where you need to go from here (and I'll even tell you how I finally became a Christian if you'd like to know), but let me ask you a question or two first, if you don't mind (and if you do, that's ok, just don't answer ). BTW, I'm not looking for a "right" or "wrong" answer here, my questions are intended to help me know a little bit more about you, that's all.

How did you get here? IOW, what do you believe brought you to this place in your life right now, to the place that you want to become a Christian?

Again, if this is too personal and you feel uncomfortable in any way, just don't answer (or you can "Start a Conversation" with me privately if your prefer).

Thanks!

Yours in Christ,
David

"He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me,
has eternal life, and does not come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life"
John 5:24​

 

[believeume]

Hi again Believeume, it's pretty simple actually. I'll try to explain more about where you need to go from here (and I'll even tell you how I finally became a Christian if you'd like to know), but let me ask you a question or two first, if you don't mind (and if you do, that's ok, just don't answer ). BTW, I'm not looking for a "right" or "wrong" answer here, my questions are intended to help me know a little bit more about you, that's all.

How did you get here? IOW, what do you believe brought you to this place in your life right now, to the place that you want to become a Christian?

Again, if this is too personal and you feel uncomfortable in any way, just don't answer (or you can "Start a Conversation" with me privately if your prefer).

Thanks!

Yours in Christ,
David

"He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me,
has eternal life, and does not come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life"
John 5:24​

I thought I was a Christian, until I realized I couldn't know if what I believed was true. Maybe it's true, I never had a real reborn transformation. But I can fold my hands again, open my heart to God and I'll be faced with the same old faith.

I must be missing something, because no matter what I do to connect to God it fails.

 

[Geralt]

natural revelation is limited and only points to the certainty of God, written revelation however tells us about God (his personality, attributes and plan of redemption).

Ok, I thought truth was some supreme understand of the nature of life, that I never got.

 

[believeume]

natural revelation is limited and only points to the certainty of God, written revelation however tells us about God (his personality, attributes and plan of redemption).

He's incredibly slow to act, it's very heartbreaking.

 

[rockytopva]

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yeah, I guess the spirit would be strong evidence. Is it even detectable? How do you know your got the right spirit, are there tests you can put yourself through.

You won't take a stance against God or his word....

 

[believeume]

You won't take a stance against God or his word....

I've taken all the stances one could take, you're only for or against people in the end.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So does one know after they embrace belief?

On an epistemological level, no, I wouldn't say that a Christian, during this life, really "knows" God, or Jesus; a Christian should move from belief to faith, and perhaps gain knowledge 'about' God of some type, but all of this kind of thing won't constitute our coming to really know God as He is yet to be known. However, the New Testament does emphasize that if we have faith, then He 'KNOWS' us.

If you look at the New Testament closely, I don't think you're going to find an emphasis on Christians 'knowing' God in the same way that, say, a man knows his wife, or even in a way that a guy knows his best friend, but you will find a lot of descriptions and/or directives about belief and faith in God (specifically through Christ, of course).

Churches today that harbor on attaining some kind of state of mind in which followers can claim that they "know" Jesus personally are really bringing into the New Testament faith a quasi-gnostic additive that isn't really reflected in the New Testament documents. Sure. If a Christian perceives that somehow God has worked in their lives in such a way that they have had a direct 'experience' of Jesus, then fine ... I guess they can add that to their epistemological résumé. But, it isn't the norm for the Christian life or for Christian belief.

Peace
2PhiloVoid

 

[AlexDTX]

If Jesus is real, why do Christian's say they believe in him. Shouldn't they say I know him?

How can one believe something they know?

If I am in a new house and the realtor tells me that the door goes to the garage, I believe the realtor to open the door then I know it is the garage since I am now in it. It is the same with Jesus, we believe the report about who He is but when we accept Him into our hearts we know Him.

How do we know anything? Usually by our 5 senses. But not all 5 senses have to be used to know something. I have heard the Lord speak to me audibly and I often feel His presence. However, the goal of maturing in the new birth is to integrate Christ into our lives so the 5 sense are no longer needed. Instead we know Him in the Spirit, which could be called a sixth sense where His communication becomes that still small voice that one knows intuitively just as a mother intuitively senses her baby when a baby has need.

 

[Tree of Life]

If Jesus is real, why do Christian's say they believe in him. Shouldn't they say I know him?

How can one believe something they know?

Christians could use both terms. It all depends on what is meant. Usually when Christians say: "I believe in Jesus" what they mean is "I trust Jesus". It would be like a Clinton supporter saying "I believe in Hillary Clinton". They could also mean "my allegiance is with Jesus".

One could theoretically know a person and not trust them and not be allegiant to them.

 

[aiki]

Yes, but thats not exclusive of physicality.

Unlike Jesus.

Sorry, not sure I follow you here. Are you saying because I don't interact with Jesus physically that I have no reason to say that I know him? If so, I would respond that the experience of Christ that his disciples have of him is primarily a spiritual one. I just wrote a blog entry on this site that discusses this matter. Feel free to check it out:

http://www.christianforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/experiencing-god-are-you-in-the-faith.199933/

Selah.

 

[Cappadocious]

Knowledge is a kind of belief.

 

[ToBeLoved]

If Jesus is real, why do Christian's say they believe in him. Shouldn't they say I know him?

How can one believe something they know?

This is what I think most people experience, although I would never claim to speak for all Christians.

Belief in God in the Bible is usually equivelized to faith. There are over 35 verses in the KJV of the New Testament in Bible that tell us it is "by faith" that we are saved. Which is pretty much 'belief'.

When one is saved by God there are things that God gives us to help us walk with Him. He does not leave us alone or without resources.

John 14:16-17
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."

2 Corinthians 3:3
It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33
33"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34"They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

John 14:26
26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you. 27Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid."

John 10:28-29
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

John 16:7-8
7 But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:

1 Corinthians 2:15-16
15 The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

The main way that the Holy Spirit teaches us is through our reading and understanding of God's Word. That is how we get to know God and many times how the Holy Spirit teaches. When we ask God for answers, He gives us answers. Like this verse says:


Matthew 7:7-8
7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

One comes to 'Know' their is a God as their faith grows and as they see God moving in their lives. But God does not hit you over the head with a bat. In His Word He tells us what He has given us and how we are to seek Him.

Seek Him with all your heart. Knock on the door, ask God to show you. Ask God to give you His spiritual riches (these are not monetary riches, but spiritual riches)

Does this make sense? Any other questions?

Do you feel that you have been given the Holy Spirit?