Gods not mad
Active Member
- Mar 31, 2019
- 91
- 25
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
What does this have to do with John 15:1-10?
number 8
Upvote
0
What does this have to do with John 15:1-10?
What do you mean? Someone who doesn't understand His sovereign choice? Of course no one can understand God and His choice unless He is willing to reveal it to you...we are just human who cannot free ourselves from bandage to SIN unless for the kindness, and merciful God who provide us with a way out...So my friend, explain then to me how you interpret those verse you quoted so maybe I didn't understand...
Gods not made. Grace and grace alone
hey bro click the above words Gods not mad grace and grace alone
number 8
Don't forget, Old Testament believers in God had their sins overlooked. Hardly any had the Spirit except the prophets.
You might just need a little pruning here and there.
Well, Nehemiah got swallowed by a fish, David was dealt with severely, Samson lost his strength and had his eyes put out, and Adam was cast out of the garden...etc. I would say His judgments were known back then too.
That's the point, though we get chastised we will not lose our salvation. Though our works are burned, yet are we saved. Though we fall, yet are we not utterly cast down....Yes, but they were still saved. God chastises those He loves.
Right..not sure what I was thinking.And by the way, Nehemiah? LOL Don't you mean Jonah?
Right, and some get booted right out of the pot to save their souls.
OK, John 15:1-10- Jesus is the true vine, Father is gardener, and we are the branches..The purpose of every fruit bearing tree is to bear fruit..where do you find fruit on a tree?... on the branches..In order for the believer to bear the fruit of God which is Christ in Us...We must receive His word into our heart,meaning we must understand who God is and who the Son is in order for us to believe. This not by our doing but it's the work of God...this chapter is just telling the believer so they can understand.. But, the actual work is DONE BY GOD...1Corins3:6,7Ok if you will please explain John 15:1-10 I will be happy to explain Romans 9. Paul contemplates the idea that God may have endured mucoh patience on the vessels of wrath.
“What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?”
ROMANS 9:22 NASB
This can also be supported by 2 Peter 3:9 although Peter says it with much more confidence.
“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
2 PETER 3:9 NASB
God being omniscient is able to know every possible outcome for each person even before creation and write their names in the book of life accordingly. The Greek word for predestinate also means to choose beforehand or preordain.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 also supports Peter’s statement that God desires all men to repent and be saved. So it doesn’t make much sense that while He desires all men to repent and be saved and of course God is omnipotent capable of all things that He would only save a portion of men. There are several ways that the idea of God’s elect does not make sense according to scriptures. First I would like to say that the early church never taught predestination.
Here’s a few questions to ask yourself.
Why did Jesus and the apostles tell people to believe if they are incapable of believing if they are not chosen and they are incapable of not believing if they are chosen? Either they are telling someone to do something that is impossible or they are telling someone to do something that they cannot fail to do regardless.
According to John 3:18 why are we judged according to whether or not we believe if God has not given those who do not believe the capability to believe? Ultimately that would make God responsible for everyone’s unbelief. This would make God unjust by judging people without making them capable of obeying. He might as well say if you swim to Jupiter and back you will be saved.
Now for my biggest question why does Jesus warn believers of receiving the consequences of failing to abide and bear fruit in John 15:1-10 if they are incapable of failing to do so? If predestination and eternal security is true then Jesus’ message here is useless.
That's the point, though we get chastised we will not lose our salvation.
Though our works are burned, yet are we saved. Though we fall, yet are we not utterly cast down....
I was talking about the ones who had to die physically that there spirits would be saved. They get taken from this earth physically. Booted out if you will.The ones looped off, or "booted right out of the pot" as you say are not saved as they have no fruit. That is John 15.
The destruction of the flesh is not some psychological change.Now if you are referring to 1 Corinthians 5:5 "deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," that is the destruction of his carnal nature/flesh, not the death of his body, that he may become sorrowful, then through repentance, his soul can be saved. That is the context of the young man sleeping with his step-mother, but we see the rest of the story in 2 Corinthians where he repents, and Paul tells them to bring him back into the fold.
The will and work of God concerning salvation is to believe, and ask for it. The promise we will receive after we are already saved in not salvation.Don't you see, we must repent if we rebel against God? If we don't repent we could quench the Spirit so much that we could go back to perdition. Read Hebrews 10, and start sooner at 26 about those who sin willfully.
Hebrews 10:
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: (the promise is salvation and eternal life)
37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
No. Those who depart from God and His people and go back to what they love doing are just unbelievers/unsaved that tire of playing games. When saved we cannot go back, and these folks who go back to perdition never were saved from it!39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
If a Christian draws away from Christ, he is drawn back to perdition - an unsaved state.
Well, maybe some started some great work they said was for God and supporting missions or something, but it turned out to be a big mess. It got burned. Big mistake. Works are not limited to 'false doctrines in ministry'. Maybe some preacher involved in a scandal, and his life work is ruined...etc etc. Maybe just about everything some folks did for God or thought they did for Him was shown to be a waste of time and useless. They are still saved.Again, I repeat, the works that are burned have to do with false doctrines in ministry, not fulfilling the lust of the flesh - willful sins.
Now you are using verses to support things you have come to believe are cool. 'works being burned refers to those nasty priests down the road that don't like speaking in tongues or holy rollers'.For instance, there are born again Christian preachers that honestly believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, and believe speaking in tongues today has to be of the flesh or the devil. That type of teaching in unbelief will be burned, but they are still saved. As in 1 Corinthians 14:23 they are not in the class of the unsaved, but the class of the uninformed.
True, even a 3 year old can get saved with a simple honest prayer.In other words, you don't have to be a Bible scholar and know everything the Spirit has to teach us in His Word to be saved.
We are a work in progress, and keep learning. Salvation is not up for grabs, or something God is lurking around hoping to snatch back away from people.And if we keep yielding to the Spirit, in His time, He will correct our understanding and we keep learning, and perfecting.
I was talking about the ones who had to die physically that there spirits would be saved. They get taken from this earth physically. Booted out if you will.
I was talking about the ones who had to die physically that there spirits would be saved. They get taken from this earth physically. Booted out if you will.
The destruction of the flesh is not some psychological change.
" 5. Besides excommunication (of which the Corinthians themselves had the power), Paul delegates here to the Corinthian Church his own special power as an apostle, of inflicting corporeal disease or death in punishment for sin ("to deliver to Satan such an one," that is, so heinous a sinner). For instances of this power, see Ac 5:1-11; 13:11; 1Ti 1:20. As Satan receives power at times to try the godly, as Job (Job 2:4-7) and Paul (2Co 12:7; compare also as to Peter, Lu 22:31), much more the ungodly. Satan, the "accuser of the brethren" (Re 12:10) and the "adversary" (1Pe 5:8), demands the sinner for punishment on account of sin (Zec 3:1). When God lets Satan have his way, He is said to "deliver the sinner unto Satan" (compare Ps 109:6). Here it is not finally; but for the affliction of the body with disease, and even death (1Co 11:30, 32"
1 Corinthians - Chapter 5 - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary on StudyLight.org
Ananias and his wife fell dead for sins, and another time a sorcerer was struck blind. So God's judgments can include death for believers to save their soul, or diseases etc. All so that we learn things and that or eternal fate is not affected.
In post 374 I answered thatWhat are you talking about - verses please.
Sorry, since it doesn't say they went to hell why would I think God went back on His promise of eternal life? I mean should I think everyone that fudged their taxes a bit, or put in at work for a little more time than they actually worked, or lied to a police officer about the speed they were going when they got a ticket, or streamed a movie, or didn't go back to a cashier when they got too much change...etc etc etc etc...is going to hell and would lose eternal salvation if the had it?Are you thinking that Ananias and Sapphira went to heaven? Is that stated somewhere that they did? Not!
Well, I guess you take these issues seriously.I printed your post because you've abbreviated all the texts so I'll have to manually look them up. If you type them out completely, all I would have had to do was mouse over to them and they would come up.
OK, John 15:1-10- Jesus is the true vine, Father is gardener, and we are the branches..The purpose of every fruit bearing tree is to bear fruit..where do you find fruit on a tree?... on the branches..In order for the believer to bear the fruit of God which is Christ in Us...We must receive His word into our heart,meaning we must understand who God is and who the Son is in order for us to believe. This not by our doing but it's the work of God...this chapter is just telling the believer so they can understand.. But, the actual work is DONE BY GOD...1Corins3:6,7
So...who prepare the vessels of wrath and mercy?
For 2Pet 3:9, You must understand who is Peter is speaking to... he is not speaking to the world but the Church because the church is His family (family of God)
Not the world...Remember all the NT writing is for the Church the "people of God"..Ephesians 3:6
John3:18, those who believe and those who don't...in order to answer your question, we must go back to the beginning of creation and the fall of man (Adam ) in Genesis...
God desire man to be His Image and likeness before creating him..Gen 1:26
But man chose to disobey God by listening to his wife Gen 3:17...and he became a slave to the serpent.
And in order to fulfill the original desire of God for man to be His Image and likeness He has to fulfill it according to His own Will but not man...
So from Adam to the end of this age...we have two groups of people one group are those born according to the Will of God(born of the Spirit) and the other is according to the will of man (born according to the flesh)...Romans 5:19
Those who are born according to His Will have a tendency to do what is good..these are the ones will eventually repented of their sins. ..
Well, the other group will continue their disobedient until the end...
This where the Election comes from "God's Sovereign choice"...is for God to bring up children who are just like Him..
For your biggest question; why does Jesus warn believers of the consequences of failing to abide and bear fruit if they are incapable to do so?
For those who have the Spirit will responded in fear of falling off and receive the consequences...so they will cry out to the Father not to let them fall off and ask for mercy to remain..because they know they are powerless to remain attached to Him (vine) by their own strength. This what is called faith..."knowledge of Christ" This group will abide or remain as the result of their faith
Again, the other group when they hear this message they will complain...God is not love, why did he have to punish us we cannot do it, why punish us????
these group have lack of knowledge of God and His Son...
No faith! Therefore will eventually fall off.
Ananias and his wife fell dead for sins, and another time a sorcerer was struck blind. So God's judgments can include death for believers to save their soul, or diseases etc. All so that we learn things and that or eternal fate is not affected."
Sorry, since it doesn't say they went to hell why would I think God went back on His promise of eternal life? I mean should I think everyone that fudged their taxes a bit, or put in at work for a little more time than they actually worked, or lied to a police officer about the speed they were going when they got a ticket, or streamed a movie, or didn't go back to a cashier when they got too much change...etc etc etc etc...is going to hell and would lose eternal salvation if the had it?
Hebrews 10:
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: (the promise is salvation and eternal life)
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
If a Christian draws away from Christ, he is drawn back to perdition - an unsaved state.
Any of those boys and girls have the baptism withFrom the 1689 confession of faith ...