• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Believers’ faith must endure until the end of their lives!

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +327
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    Continuing belief-faith is necessary for
    continuing salvation-eternal life


    “… whoever believes [continues to believe] in Him may have [may continue to have] eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes [continues to believe] in Him should not perish but have [continue to have] eternal life.” (John 3:15-16)
    These verbs in Greek and English are in the
    present tense … always believing and having!


    “He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — IF indeed you continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:22-23)

    “It is this Good News (the gospel) that saves you, IF you continue to believe the message I told you” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

    “So we must listen very carefully to the truth we have heard, or we may drift away from it … every act of disobedience was punished. So what makes us think we can escape, IF we ignore this great salvation” (Hebrews 2:1-3)

    “And we are God’s house, IF we keep our courage and remain confident in our hope in Christ …
    Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God … so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God. For IF we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ.” (Hebrews 3:6,12-14)


    IF we endure, we shall also reign with Him.”
    (2 Timothy 2:12)


    “… follow the example of those who are going to inherit God’s promises because of their faith and endurance.” (Hebrews 6:11-12)

    “Patient endurance is what you need, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised. … ‘And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.’ But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction (eternal death).” (Hebrews 10:36-39)

    “Stay true to what is right (the true gospel) for
    the sake of your own salvation and the salvation
    of those who hear you.” (1 Timothy 4:16)


    “… work out your own salvation with fear
    and trembling … holding fast the word of life,
    so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ
    that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.”
    (Philippians 2:12,16)

    If they fail to endure, Paul has wasted his efforts!

    “... you have been grieved by various trials
    that the genuineness of your faith … though it is
    tested by fire … receiving the end of your faith
    — the salvation of your souls.” (1 Peter 1:7-9)

    This has nothing to do with rewards …
    “God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of (eternal) life that God has promised to those who love him.” (James 1:12)

    4 times in John 14, Jesus said (paraphrasing): Those
    who love Me will obey (keep) My commandments.


    “God’s holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.” (Revelation 14:12)

    Because of all of the above verses,
    this also refers to salvation …

    “But the one who endures to the end
    (of his/her life) will be saved.”
    (Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13)


    Everything is CONDITIONAL … so …
    Those who endure in the faith to the end
    keep their righteous standing with God!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    Salvation in Christ is unconditional. Those who endure in faith to the end GIVE EVIDENCE of their righteous standing before God! The former lives by self righteous works of merit the latter lives by faith in the Son of God and His merits of righteousness alone.
     
  3. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +327
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    Enduring in the faith ...
    during the soon up-coming end of all things!


    Endure in your faith until your death:

    during the upcoming terrible Christian persecution
    ● during intense pressure to take the mark of the beast

    If you fail one of these tests, you are a coward
    (see Revelation 21:8)!

    “But IF you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of (eternal) life” (Revelation 2:10)
    Yes, I can prove from the NT that ...
    the crown of life refers to eternal life!


    “And they did not love their lives so much
    that they were afraid to die.” (Revelation 12:11)


    “And the (first) beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.
    … This means that God’s holy people must endure persecution patiently and remain faithful.
    … He (the second beast) required everyone --
    small and great, rich and poor, free and slave --
    to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark …” (Revelation 13:7-17)


    “Anyone who worships the beast and his statue
    or who accepts his mark on the forehead or
    on the hand must drink the wine of God’s anger.
    It has been poured full strength into God’s cup
    of wrath. And they will be tormented with fire
    and burning sulfur …” (Revelation 14:9-10)


    “Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4)

    Taking the mark of the beast is pledging
    your allegiance to the antichrist, i.e. Satan,
    with the result being that ...
    you will be cast into the Lake of Fire!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  4. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +327
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    I've already warned you that
    you insist on ignoring/rejecting
    God's many warnings about losing salvation!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  5. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,553
    Christian
    Single
    Are you saying we don't even have to do good in order to make it to heaven?
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,080
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    Salvation in Christ is true IF you have been born again of the Spirit of Christ. Do you know what that means? After all the demons know who Jesus is but are not saved. A person, saved or unsaved, act according to their nature. Those who sin are slaves of sin, and are unsaved doing what comes naturally to them. Someone who is born again of the Spirit of Christ will live according to their new nature that hates sin and does not indulge in things of the old dead nature.
     
  7. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    I’m saying it is Christ’s righteousness that saves not yours
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  8. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    If one can lose their salvation, then salvation must be maintained by men’s works of righteousness. And if ones works of righteousness must maintain his salvation, then salvation must be earned by men’s works of righteousness. This doctrine nullifies the gospel altogether. It’s a doctrine of unbelief
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  9. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,553
    Christian
    Single
    You're dead wrong, and I'll show you. Also, the scripture is your warning from Jesus to do right, and stop teaching the innocent false doctrine/changing the meaning of the bible, as that is far from doing good.

    First, so you don't try to twist things, here is the definition of righteous:

    right·eous
    /ˈrīCHəs/
    adjective
    adjective: righteous
    1. 1.
      (of a person or conduct) morally right or justifiable; virtuous.
      "feelings of righteous indignation about pay and conditions"
      synonyms: good, virtuous, upright, upstanding, decent, worthy; More
      ethical, principled, moral, high-minded, law-abiding, just, honest, innocent, faultless, honorable, blameless, guiltless, irreproachable, sinless, uncorrupted, anticorruption, saintly, angelic, pure, noble, noble-minded, pious, God-fearing
      "the scriptures contain rules for righteous living"
      justifiable, justified, legitimate, defensible, supportable, just, rightful;
      well founded, sound, valid, admissible, allowable, understandable, excusable, acceptable, reasonable, sensible
      "a look of righteous anger came over his face"
      antonyms: wicked, sinful, unjustifiable
    2. 2.
      informal•US
      very good; excellent.
      "righteous bread pudding"
    Now this from Jesus, where he states the same condition that has been around for a long time, so definitely not unconditional, you or someone made that up. Again, this is one of several warnings from the man himself.

    John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

    So simple it needs no explanation whatsoever, but that's Jesus for you. So, now you have absolute proof. and remember, if you try to refute something so simple and true, there are intelligent people watching, so just a friendly warning, I'd make it good, or a smarter move, not do it at all.

    So, if you want to sin as a lifestyle/constantly pass around false doctrine, or whatever, and pretend you're still heaven bound that's up to you, but did you once consider there are those on these boards seeking the truth, and how God is going to feel about someone passing false doctrine around, and causing his children to be led astray?

    I've said it before...I'd be terrified to do that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  10. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    Yes I agree that we act according to our nature. It is why one who has been saved by Gods grace in Christ will bear fruit that accompanies salvation
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  11. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    So all you are saying is that Christ and He alone cannot save a sinner? Am I correct?
     
  12. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,553
    Christian
    Single
    So, your going to pretend you didn't see it?

    I am saying you are dead wrong and his love is not unconditional like you said it was. the condition is, we have to do good or go to hell.

    Is it all coming back to you now?
     
  13. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +327
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    Yes, haven't you seen the NT verses that say:
    Those who practice righteousness
    are righteous in the eyes of God.
     
  14. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,553
    Christian
    Single
    And yes he alone can and does as long as you obey him. You saw the scripture I just quoted, are you saying you don't have to obey him?
     
  15. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +327
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    People must have the precious Holy Spirit inside
    to understand much of anything (spiritually).
    Many in the churches are NOT saved.
     
  16. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    Yes I’ve got it. You don’t believe Christ and He alone saves
     
  17. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    Obedience is the fruit not the cause or bases for salvation. Lose of salvation doctrine stems from unbelief in the gospel message and a heart that lacks true repentance
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  18. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

    801
    +346
    Calvinist
    Single
    That I do agree with you. God has His elect remnant
     
  19. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,553
    Christian
    Single
    Since you persist with that very common line which means nothing, Let me point out the little trick trick in that, then you can spout it all you like, and others like it and readers will be aware of what you are doing. See you try to trick the listener into believing if they disagree, there is something wrong with them, when in fact, there is something wrong with you/the comment because it's only half the story, at best. The rest of it, as I already said, you have to obey him. So yes, Jesus is quite capable of doing his part, but you have to do yours

    Now it's your turn to actually answer, once again, are you saying we don't have to obey what Jesus said in the scripture? Or that we don't have to meet a condition in order to be saved? I'm not asking you again, but we all know what a lack of answer means.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  20. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +327
    Canada
    Charismatic
    Married
    Ditto for me ... he refuses to explain how or why
    the dire warning verses in the NT re: losing salvation
    (many of which have been posted in several threads)
    ... are not warnings about this at all.

    A NOTE to everyone ... It is obvious to me that
    BACs need to RECONCILE the so-called OSAS verses
    with all of those NT verses which stand against OSAS.

    Is reconcile the correct word to use?
    I mean to fit all the verses together so they make sense.

    Let's be like the Bereans ... Acts 17:11
    "they received the word with all readiness,
    and searched the Scriptures daily to find out
    whether these things were so."
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
Loading...