Being filled with the Holy Spirit vs tongues

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I just believe that from my studies, which I certainly didn't go into depth with here do convince me. But I've followed you here enough to know that you 'got it' and that is what matters most IMO. But correct theology is pretty important too IMO.


And the word "house" is the word oikos in the Greek, which can be the 'house of God'.

3624 oikos {oy'-kos}of uncertain affinity
(1.b.2) the house of God, the tabernacle

LUK 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house/oikos is the house/oikos of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And what better house for 120 people to be gathered in to receive the prayer language of their spirit first before manifesting a 'gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit' to men.

Also, having studied the errors of capitalization I know for a fact that when they were filled with the holy spirit it was holy spirit power from the person of the Holy Spirit. This is a huge issue when dealing with the born again who think their individual body houses the Holy Spirit already and they don't need no baptism for anything more. Bad theology from pretty clear scriptures....if it's KJV anyway.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye Pl not that your Pl body sg is the temple sg of the Holy Ghost which is in you pl, which ye pl have of God, and ye pl are not your own?

YE, YOU and YOUR are plural in the KJV. THEE and THOU are singular. Most translations lose this understanding. This verse is not saying a singular Christian's body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. If it meant that, then body and temple should both be plural and not singular in the above verse.

WE as living stones make up the many membered corporate body of Christ and Jesus is the cornerstone of that temple.

EPH 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 ... Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1PE 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house,

It's these kinds of theological errors, for centuries, that has led to so many mistakes in doctrinal understanding. And the only holy spirit in us is the same holy spirit which was in our cornerstone Jesus at his birth. And that's the spirit of Christ.

We're in total agreement, as I've seen you correctly use this event before with those who who who....well, lets just say who aren't 'EARNESTLY SEEKING the promise of supernatural holy spirit POWER pouring out from the Person of the Holy Spirit, which BTW, no one could "SEE or HEAR".

ACT 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the (from the) Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The PROMISE of the Father was POWER period. It was never the PERSON, it was holy spirit power SHED FORTH from the PERSON.

LUK 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my (from the) Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

But hey, I'm rambling on. Time to quit and watch TV.

Thank you for taking the time to share more of what you believe. May God continue to bless you!

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

You've already told me all I need to know by your chosen silence on certain matters, just as others have, and saying I'm not a Christian because I don't agree with you personally is far from helping your case.

It's not Gods power I disbelieve, it's mans claims, and for that reason you say I'm not Christian then you can't even see how bizarre/self centered that sounds. Who do you think you are anyway?

And please don't give me that between natural dimensions and reality stuff. Christ proved he healed people and raised them from the dead, there with absolutely no "Oh you can't possibly understand" junk involved. He did it, he did it in front of people to people they knew were afflicted, hence they were positive it happened...period. So please don't insult us with the "It's a mystery beyond your comprehension" thing..

You say that, because you read about it. Yet, when you read about it today, you doubt it. The difference is that you accept the Bible, but you reject what the Bible says. And remember there were people who didn't believe because they didn't see it in front of them. There were also people who demanded a sign in front of them to prove. And, there were people who saw the sign He did in front of them and said it was of the devil. All that is recorded in Scripture.

I speak Truth and actual experience with God and you reject it. What God-centered individual does that? I don't gain anything by whether you accept me or not and I'm not trying to help my case. I don't have to defend myself to you. I'm much more concerned about giving an honest answer to God that I did everything I could to show you the error of your ways. And I have. It is fine that you don't accept me, that you think I am self-centered, that you think whatever you think. You just need to know that you were told the Truth and you rejected it. That is your problem not mine. I don't do what I do for the acceptance of man. I do it because of God and for God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Maybe "silly" or "silly" maybe, because you possibly don't understand.

He said; It is EITHER; 'tongues are for ALL believers and worshiping in tongues is for ALL believers' OR 'the gift of tongues is for a FEW believers AND THEREFORE worshiping in tongues is also for a FEW believers'. His inconsistency is illogical thinking IMO. I think my answer is consistently logical compared to his inconsistent logic.

Unless he differentiates between Gift of Tongues from the Holy Spirit, and 'new tongues' from my/our spirit. Something he's never done when I've asked.

He said;
I disagree; IF by "the Gift of tongues" he means the prayer tongue of our/my spirit to God. My prayer tongue is 'primarily' private, but can be corporately exercised with '100% of the saints' in a charismatic assembly, all praying in their spirit's tongue.

If he means the Gift of tongues' from the Holy Spirit coming upon me and manifesting a human tongue through me that I don't know, then we would agree. But that tongue was manifested on the day of Pentecost by, and not by "a minority of saints" (as he states above), but by All the saints. And it was manifested to everyone who wasn't "within a fellowship" (as he mandates above) by ALL those saints. Again, inconsistency of his stated theological opinion which I again don't agree with.

I hope this new found understanding helps you rethink your logic and my apparent 'silliness'.

Mark 16:16-18 - SIGN of tongues - individual - all who believe.

1 Corinthians 12 - GIFT of tongues - few - to the church.

He is saying that the Gift of 1 Corinthians 12 is only for a few. Like an office such as apostle, prophet, teacher. He is using the right terminology, so I understand what he is saying and agree with you both.

At least, I assume that is also what you are saying.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Apparently, the "doctor" has left the building, based on all the bye's he's declared. He couldn't be a cessationalist, because he at least admitted to two incidences of "genuine tongues" in his years of experience. So, even though he seems to prefer mostly tare-run churches, he couldn't have been a cessationalist.

I feel for him. I've seen the fake, but only when someone is professing to be a Christian but has never repented from their sin in order to be filled with the Spirit. Anyone can fake tongues by just copying what others who are Spirit-filled, sound like. That is why I asked him if he had ever heard God's voice. He said, bye.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I feel for him. I've seen the fake, but only when someone is professing to be a Christian but has never repented from their sin in order to be filled with the Spirit. Anyone can fake tongues by just copying what others who are Spirit-filled, sound like. That is why I asked him if he had ever heard God's voice. He said, bye.

I guess for me, I'm more concerned for those who will believe the lies he espouses and claims to know from experience than I am for him. He made his choice and chose to believe the lies. I've seen more than a few claim to be genuine believers and attack the gifts of the Spirit, based on supposedly personally being an active part of it for a while. If they are genuine, why would they ever fake it? And, fi they were genuine and they were publicly turning away, there are things said in Scripture that apply to them. They chose it. To me, there is a big difference between being born into a church that doesn't believe in the gifts and claiming that you were part of a church that honored God's gifts and walked away from those gifts willingly.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I guess for me, I'm more concerned for those who will believe the lies he espouses and claims to know from experience than I am for him. He made his choice and chose to believe the lies. I've seen more than a few claim to be genuine believers and attack the gifts of the Spirit, based on supposedly personally being an active part of it for a while. If they are genuine, why would they ever fake it? And, fi they were genuine and they were publicly turning away, there are things said in Scripture that apply to them. They chose it. To me, there is a big difference between being born into a church that doesn't believe in the gifts and claiming that you were part of a church that honored God's gifts and walked away from those gifts willingly.

I've been in all three shoes.

I was raised SDA, in a church that had a prophetess, that also believed that Pentecostals were demon possessed and that the interpretation of the tongues they spoke were blasphemies against God. (Go figure!)

I left that church when I learned about grace, and then a year later learned that the gifts had not ceased. I prayed to be filled with the Spirit, and for 6-7 years tried to speak in tongues. It was always very faulty and staggered (didn't flow) and I know now it was fake. (The reason I can recognize the fake in other fake Christians.)

Finally I repented of all sin and was born again and filled to overflowing with the Spirit, seeing a vision and hearing God speak 8 sentences that seared right through me. I didn't immediately speak in tongues that night. But the next week when I joined in praise to God as a group at church, and joined in as usual, this time the language just flowed.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I am seeing signs and wonders regularly

I see the miracle of the new birth, but who are you seeing today who can do signs and wonders as the Apostles did then?

 

[YeshuaFan]

You say that, because you read about it. Yet, when you read about it today, you doubt it. The difference is that you accept the Bible, but you reject what the Bible says. And remember there were people who didn't believe because they didn't see it in front of them. There were also people who demanded a sign in front of them to prove. And, there were people who saw the sign He did in front of them and said it was of the devil. All that is recorded in Scripture.

I speak Truth and actual experience with God and you reject it. What God-centered individual does that? I don't gain anything by whether you accept me or not and I'm not trying to help my case. I don't have to defend myself to you. I'm much more concerned about giving an honest answer to God that I did everything I could to show you the error of your ways. And I have. It is fine that you don't accept me, that you think I am self-centered, that you think whatever you think. You just need to know that you were told the Truth and you rejected it. That is your problem not mine. I don't do what I do for the acceptance of man. I do it because of God and for God.

Interesting though that the historical church id not see this as Charismatics do until into the 20th Century, and so how can you be sure that they were wrong all of those years?

 

[YeshuaFan]

I feel for him. I've seen the fake, but only when someone is professing to be a Christian but has never repented from their sin in order to be filled with the Spirit. Anyone can fake tongues by just copying what others who are Spirit-filled, sound like. That is why I asked him if he had ever heard God's voice. He said, bye.

One does NOT have to speak in tongues though to be filled with the Spirit, as fruit cannot be faked by us, but tongues sure can be!

 

[1stcenturylady]

I see the miracle of the new birth, but who are you seeing today who can do signs and wonders as the Apostles did then?

If you've been raised in the desert, you may not believe in rain forests.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I guess for me, I'm more concerned for those who will believe the lies he espouses and claims to know from experience than I am for him. He made his choice and chose to believe the lies. I've seen more than a few claim to be genuine believers and attack the gifts of the Spirit, based on supposedly personally being an active part of it for a while. If they are genuine, why would they ever fake it? And, fi they were genuine and they were publicly turning away, there are things said in Scripture that apply to them. They chose it. To me, there is a big difference between being born into a church that doesn't believe in the gifts and claiming that you were part of a church that honored God's gifts and walked away from those gifts willingly.

I am just doing a sound exegesis of the scriptures, and cannot find the second act of Grace, notr people being gifted today by God to dp signs and wonders anymore!

 

[YeshuaFan]

If you've been raised in the desert, you may not believe in rain forests.

I wa strained and taught in the Aog as an Elder, so do know about the theology!

 

[YeshuaFan]

They don't have to, but they can.

As the Holy Spirit Himself distributes it to them, so cannot be a sign of anything other than a gift God chose to give them with!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes I agree with you but the Baptism WITH the Spirit is another baptism which is entirely separate from the One Baptism which saves us.

There is no second act of grace mentioned in the Bible, as we are NOT commanded to seek it, but to have ALL be refilled by the Holy Spirit now!

 

[1stcenturylady]

One does NOT have to speak in tongues though to be filled with the Spirit, as fruit cannot be faked by us, but tongues sure can be!

Fake Christians can speak fake tongues. All true Christians are given this ability, but sometimes many chains of unbelief have to be removed before they will open their mouth and speak.

 

[1stcenturylady]

As the Holy Spirit Himself distributes it to them, so cannot be a sign of anything other than a gift God chose to give them with!

The gifts are for the church for the profit of all. 1 Cor. 12
The signs are for the individual for perfect prayer and praise. Mark 16

 

[YeshuaFan]

I have read all of EW Kenyon's books, and he bases his views directly from Scripture. Do you know what New Age philosophy actually is? It is all based on humanism and it is anti-Christ, and includes spiritualism, hypnosis, ouija boards, channelling, and psychic phenomena. I don't see any of that in Kenyon's writing at all. I don't know where you got your information from but it certainly was not doing a sound study of Kenyon's writing!

Kenyon was into new Age metaphysics, as he saw mind over matter, that faith is a force, that we can speak and claim our own reality, power in our thoughts and words, pretty much heresy of the WoF today!

 

[1stcenturylady]

I wa strained and taught in the Aog as an Elder, so do know about the theology!

I've met many AOG who don't even know there are two manifestation of tongues. 1 Cor. 12 profit of all, and Mark 16 for the individual

 

[YeshuaFan]

Fake Christians can speak fake tongues. All true Christians are given this ability, but sometimes many chains of unbelief have to be removed before they will open their mouth and speak.

No scriptures say tongues are given to us now though!

 

[YeshuaFan]

I've met many AOG who don't even know there are two manifestation of tongues. 1 Cor. 12 profit of all, and Mark 16 for the individual

There were only one tongue given which were real human languages not known by the speaker!