Being filled with the Holy Spirit vs tongues

1stcenturylady

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There is no second act of grace mentioned in the Bible, as we are NOT commanded to seek it, but to have ALL be refilled by the Holy Spirit now!

Acts 2 they received the individual sign of tongues of Mark 16.

Acts 4 the same people received the gifts for ministry of 1 Cor. 12.
 
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1stcenturylady

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No scriptures say tongues are given to us now though!

The same Spirit is alive and well today as He was 2000 years ago, and we are in the same covenant. Nothing inside a covenant ceases until the covenant, itself, ceases.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You say that, because you read about it. Yet, when you read about it today, you doubt it.

Hello!?

One I read in the bible, I believe it, the other I didn't and I don't. All I want to discuss with you now is the proof, but you insist on evading that so...

If you wonder why i didn't comment on the rest of your post, it's because i didn't read it...I think it's safe to assume, just like the opening comment, not well thought out at all.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Interesting though that the historical church id not see this as Charismatics do until into the 20th Century, and so how can you be sure that they were wrong all of those years?

Please don't confuse me with a charismatic or pentacostal--I am simply a Bible-believing lover (by His initial choice) of the only True and Living God through His only begotten Son, my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit whom Scripture tells me will lead me into all Truth.

Included in Bible-believing is that there is no genuine justification for God up and deciding to get rid of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, while leaving the Holy Spirit here. Claiming that gifts were done away with voids a whole chunk of Scripture and that would have happened before the Bible was "completed" which would mean it wasn't perfect, because large chunks of it were already void. That claim that God stopped the gifts is a false doctrine established on false beliefs due to their sad lack of experience (probably due to lack of surrender) and enforced on their flock much like evolution is forced on scientists who want to have the resources of big public universities.

Randy Clark had the gifts happen to him. He wasn't seeking them. It just happened and Baptist threw him out of their denomination. There was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary that was "surprised" by God giving him the gift of tongues and it got him fired because he was honest and that violated their doctrine. So, it is clear that some people can get hit in the face with the Truth and for the sake of their doctrine and traditions of men, they will walk away from that Truth. And that has a Scriptural parallel. The Jews did it when Jesus was here. It is sad when it happens, but it is historical fact. You have a choice to continue to believe lies or to actively pursue God for the Truth.

There are Baptist churches that do believe the gifts are for today and are walking in them, by the way. Not all churches that call themselves Baptist are cessationists.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Please don't confuse me with a charismatic or pentacostal--I am simply a Bible-believing lover (by His initial choice) of the only True and Living God through His only begotten Son, my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit whom Scripture tells me will lead me into all Truth.

Included in Bible-believing is that there is no genuine justification for God up and deciding to get rid of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, while leaving the Holy Spirit here. Claiming that gifts were done away with voids a whole chunk of Scripture and that would have happened before the Bible was "completed" which would mean it wasn't perfect, because large chunks of it were already void. That claim that God stopped the gifts is a false doctrine established on false beliefs due to their sad lack of experience (probably due to lack of surrender) and enforced on their flock much like evolution is forced on scientists who want to have the resources of big public universities.

Randy Clark had the gifts happen to him. He wasn't seeking them. It just happened and Baptist threw him out of their denomination. There was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary that was "surprised" by God giving him the gift of tongues and it got him fired because he was honest and that violated their doctrine. So, it is clear that some people can get hit in the face with the Truth and for the sake of their doctrine and traditions of men, they will walk away from that Truth. And that has a Scriptural parallel. The Jews did it when Jesus was here. It is sad when it happens, but it is historical fact. You have a choice to continue to believe lies or to actively pursue God for the Truth.

There are Baptist churches that do believe the gifts are for today and are walking in them, by the way. Not all churches that call themselves Baptist are cessationists.

Pentecostal is a denomination. Charismatic is anyone of any denomination or non-denomination that is Spirit-filled and can speak in tongues. I thought you were Charismatic? You're not???
 
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1stcenturylady

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Not need for today though,a s we now have the completed scriptures!

False doctrine. Even with the apostles and their letters they still saw God as through a dark glass. Just because the letters are in one place doesn't mean we can see God any clearer. Only when we see Him face to face as in 1 Corinthians 13 will we know God as well as He knows us individually.
 
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YeshuaFan

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The same Spirit is alive and well today as He was 2000 years ago, and we are in the same covenant. Nothing inside a covenant ceases until the covenant, itself, ceases.
How God administers during the Covenant time can change though,a s it did under the old one!
 
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YeshuaFan

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False doctrine. Even with the apostles and their letters they still saw God as through a dark glass. Just because the letters are in one place doesn't mean we can see God any clearer. Only when we see Him face to face as in 1 Corinthians 13 will we know God as well as He knows us individually.
Tongues were given in te Church to fulfill OT prophecy of coming New Covenant, and the signs and wonders used to confirm Jesus and Gospel, not needed now, as already been confirmed ands attested to in the scriptures!
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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One does NOT have to speak in tongues though to be filled with the Spirit, as fruit cannot be faked by us, but tongues sure can be!

Whoa. What do you mean fruit can't be faked?

So, God put me in a position to expose a professing Christian who knew all the right things to say, was the son of a pastor, and had his church convinced he was a genuine Christian. But, what they didn't know is he wasn't only pursuing the girl in his church and offering to get her a ring. He was pursing another girl he met online and convinced to sleep with him. He told both he wanted to buy them rings and marry them and each knew about the other, because he talked about the other as a crazy person who was stalking him. When God put me in the position, I was told by a friend who knew the other girl, she said: "It couldn't be the same guy. I see this guy in church all the time and I'd be shocked if that guy is this guy based on what I see. He seems so pure." It was the same guy. They both met him at a hotel after one of the girls texted for him to come meet her. It was much harder for the one to overcome that, because she had given in to sleeping with him. But, the fact of the matter is to everyone who knew him, he presented the fruit of the Spirit, but what he was doing with two different girls simultaneously clearly betrayed who he really was. God sees the real fruit. God sees the real gifts in use. How often do we hear of a pastor eventually exposed who appeared to be a holy man of God until.... And, then people were wondering how they missed it.

It is much harder for man to fake gifts with people who really know the gifts. It is hard to declare someone healed who isn't and have people believe what you say you going forward. If you claim someone was raised from the dead and they weren't, there are people who would know and could publicly embarrass you. Just like if what Paul and Peter said about Jesus being risen didn't really happen, there were plenty of people who could have called them on it. If you speak a prophesy that doesn't come to fruition, why would anyone listen to the next prophesy you speak? I understand tongues sounds like jibberish. So, we look stupid when we pray in tongues in public. We do. Other than trying to fit in, choosing God despite knowing we look silly, or actively choosing the counterfeiter and willfully doing his work, why on earth would anyone want to speak in public in tongues?
 
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Pethesedzao

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Fake Christians can speak fake tongues. All true Christians are given this ability, but sometimes many chains of unbelief have to be removed before they will open their mouth and speak.
Speaking with new tongues is an evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Tongues were given in te Church to fulfill OT prophecy of coming New Covenant, and the signs and wonders used to confirm Jesus and Gospel, not needed now, as already been confirmed ands attested to in the scriptures!

See you continue to believe lies, though the Truth has been clearly spoken to you. There is nothing in Scripture that says the gifts were going to cease. How on earth do you believe that signs and wonders aren't needed anymore. What earth do you live on? We have more people who don't believe there is a God or that they don't need God than ever before. Did you read the end of Revelation? Look at all the unbelievers who are lined up against Jesus Christ, like they can stop Him? But, they clearly think they can.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Speaking with new tongues is an evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit

No one without the Holy Spirit is saved. Romans 8:9. Those with the Holy Spirit can speak with tongues. Mark 16:16-18. There are more fillings for ministry gifts, Acts 4:29-31, 1 Cor. 12, but all who believe can speak with tongues if they are informed and not filled with quenching unbelief. The doctrine that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is after conversion is wrong. The experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is being born again of the Spirit. No one who is not born again is a Christian.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I guess for me, I'm more concerned for those who will believe the lies he espouses and claims to know from experience than I am for him. He made his choice and chose to believe the lies. I've seen more than a few claim to be genuine believers and attack the gifts of the Spirit, based on supposedly personally being an active part of it for a while. If they are genuine, why would they ever fake it? And, fi they were genuine and they were publicly turning away, there are things said in Scripture that apply to them. They chose it. To me, there is a big difference between being born into a church that doesn't believe in the gifts and claiming that you were part of a church that honored God's gifts and walked away from those gifts willingly.
When I got hurt and disillusioned with my Charismatic church and walked away from it, not wanting to remain in the Pentecostal movement, and went and joined an Anglican church, much of what I was taught in the Pentecostal church went by the board as well. But, interestingly, I didn't stop praying in tongues, neither did I want to, and I never have, even though I spent years in Baptist churches and as an elder in the Presbyterian church.

This shows me that the ability to pray and speak in tongues that I have did not come from the Pentecostal church, although it was there that I learned about it. I didn't receive it in the first place in a church service. It was on my bed in the hostel where I was living and in the middle of a week day. When I received the revelation of the reality of God two years later, I still kept praying in tongues.

When I did go through a time when I seriously doubted whether tongues was real, and I asked God about it, He replied, "Why do you think I devoted a whole chapter of My Bible to give correct teaching on it if I didn't mean for people to be able to use it, then and now?" He left me in no doubt that tongues was not just a Pentecostal thing, but it was the ordinary ability of every new covenant believer. Since that time, I have absolutely no doubts about the tongues that I use to pray and speak are totally genuine.

If people choose not to use the ability, that's their business. But to go around saying that those who use the ability are in error and false, that is entirely another matter. These people are in danger of insulting and grieving the Holy Spirit and they will pay the price for that.

In my experience, I could never turn my back on the Holy Spirit and His gifts. It is just not in me. I have been through thick and thin in my life and nothing has happened to me to such an extent that I have ever felt unfairly treated by the Lord, even though I have felt that way in regard to churches. God is not the church and the church is not God, and the gifts that I have been given were not given by a church, but from God, and although I can walk away from a church, God still knows the way I take and He continues to walk with me.

I think that is the attitude of any genuinely converted believer.
 
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Kenyon was into new Age metaphysics, as he saw mind over matter, that faith is a force, that we can speak and claim our own reality, power in our thoughts and words, pretty much heresy of the WoF today!
I don't know how much of Kenyon's actual works that you have read, or whether you have just read articles about his work. I have read all of his books quite thoroughly, and I have not seen anything of the metaphysics or using faith as a force or that we can speak or claim our own reality or anything like what you are accusing him of.

All I see is his encouragement to just believe what the Scripture actually says. The main thrust of his teaching is, "The Bible says it, all we have to do is just believe it". I saw nothing in all the books of his that I read that even hint at anything inconsistent with Scripture.
 
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