Being a Christian vs being Christ-like

[Gwen-is-new!]

I agree completely with your premise... most of Christendom is in name only. They don't seek the deeper, spiritual things of God..

Yes, and I'm not sure if we describe the nominals as lukewarm which isn't good of course (scripts already quoted on that), or if we trust they are saved, but still babes in Christ (immature Christians) growing very very very slowly?

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

That said, my behavior I think is what needs to be tested when Paul says:
How do you know if you're in Christ, unless your behavior shows it?

That's a great thought-provoking question! I think most would say by their "belief".. and quote John 3:16. The Gospel message is simple but let's just say some seem to over-simplify it

 

[Tellastory]

Do you think there's a difference between the two? I am of the opinion that if one is a true Christian, a new-creation-lead-by-the-Spirit Christian then one will naturally (given their new nature) exemplify Christ-like actions and behaviors. What do you think?

So what happens when a professed believer backslide or keep habitually sinning?

Should they believe they are not a true christian and that they were never saved in the first place?

Should those that keep trying to do the best they can in following Him, just give up and believe that if they were His, they would be a true christian by now?

If we have not become perfect yet and we are called to be perfect, then no one can fulfill the standard of being a true christian while living down here until He brings us Home as perfect.

I agree with "thatbrian". Being a christian is relying on Him to be Christ like. He began a good work in me and He shall finish it. I no longer try to do the best I can but I rest in Him and His promises to me to live as His and follow Him as His disciple.

He has set me free from trying to keep my commitment to follow Him by trusting Him to be my Good Shepherd so that I may know Him & the power of His resurrection as I see myself following Him because He helps me to place all my hopes on Him for all things.

If we judge by appearances, words, and actions, of what a true christian is, we would be condemning ourselves and others instead of correcting or rebuking in Christ's love so that we may grow in Him to bear fruit as His disciples and that our joy may be full.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:8 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Extraneous]

So what happens when a professed believer backslide or keep habitually sinning?

Should they believe they are not a true christian and that they were never saved in the first place?

Should those that keep trying to do the best they can in following Him, just give up and believe that if they were His, they would be a true christian by now?

If we have not become perfect yet and we are called to be perfect, then no one can fulfill the standard of being a true christian while living down here until He brings us Home as perfect.

I agree with "thatbrian". Being a christian is relying on Him to be Christ like. He began a good work in me and He shall finish it. I no longer try to do the best I can but I rest in Him and His promises to me to live as His and follow Him as His disciple.

He has set me free from trying to keep my commitment to follow Him by trusting Him to be my Good Shepherd so that I may know Him & the power of His resurrection as I see myself following Him because He helps me to place all my hopes on Him for all things.

If we judge by appearances, words, and actions, of what a true christian is, we would be condemning ourselves and others instead of correcting or rebuking in Christ's love so that we may grow in Him to bear fruit as His disciples and that our joy may be full.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:8 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Many Christians sin and dont even know it, thats far worse because they wont even acknowledge their own sin, they are blind and they actually believe they are better than backsliders, but they are really just blind like this pharisee. This parable comes to mind.

Luke 18:9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Tellastory]

Many Christians sin and dont even know it, thats far worse because they wont even acknowledge their own sin, they are blind and they actually believe they are better than backsliders, but they are really just blind like this pharisee. This parable comes to mind.

Luke 18:9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Since this reasonable service is ongoing, it is no wonder why we should not get stuck up on ourselves nor forget our place when judging others. And we do forget our place when we condemn someone as not being a christian or a true christian, thus we become like those that deny the Lord that bought them.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

If we only condemn others as not a true christian, then where is the body of Christ?

Where are the offices if they are no correction or rebukes to be had if we are all perfect?

Where is that race to lay aside every weight & sin by looking unto the author & finisher of our faith to help us to do it?

It is those that believe that they can do no wrong are the ones that would give grace to themselves when they sin, and yet demand more from others by forcing them to make recommitments or make promises "again" to follow Him, while judging them behind their backs that they are not trying hard enough or even judging them as believing that they never will be "true" christians.

So the question is; Who has made us christians? Who has made us His? If we remember this truth that Jesus Christ has made us His, then we would be exhorting one another to rely on Him as our Good Shepherd for all things to be His disciples.

 

[Extraneous]

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Since this reasonable service is ongoing, it is no wonder why we should not get stuck up on ourselves nor forget our place when judging others. And we do forget our place when we condemn someone as not being a christian or a true christian, thus we become like those that deny the Lord that bought them.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

If we only condemn others as not a true christian, then where is the body of Christ?

Where are the offices if they are no correction or rebukes to be had if we are all perfect?

Where is that race to lay aside every weight & sin by looking unto the author & finisher of our faith to help us to do it?

It is those that believe that they can do no wrong are the ones that would give grace to themselves when they sin, and yet demand more from others by forcing them to make recommitments or make promises "again" to follow Him, while judging them behind their backs that they are not trying hard enough or even judging them as believing that they never will be "true" christians.

So the question is; Who has made us christians? Who has made us His? If we remember this truth that Jesus Christ has made us His, then we would be exhorting one another to rely on Him as our Good Shepherd for all things to be His disciples.

How do we conform not to the world?

 

[JackRT]

Many Christians sin and dont even know it

Impossible!

Sin has three requirements:
1. it must be an evil
2. it must be known to be an evil
3. it is done in the full knowledge that it is an evil

 

[Extraneous]

Impossible!

Sin has three requirements:
1. it must be an evil
2. it must be known to be an evil
3. it is done in the full knowledge that it is an evil

You obviously didnt understand the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector then.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

This was a most insightful observation. In my over 70 years as a Christian I can say without reservation that the most Christlike person I have ever met was a Hindu.

I'm sorry but your statement is most ridiculous. If you can say that a Hindu was most Christ-like, then it shows a lack of understanding of Christ. Jesus believed ALL of the Word of God, and obeyed it. This a Hindu does not do.

I'm guessing he meant his Hindu friend was a very nice and good person - there will be lots of these in hell Unfortunately his experience and statement is very common, and just a sad testament to the state of the church in American.

 

[Tellastory]

How do we conform not to the world?

Romans 13: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

How do we prove what is good and acceptable and perfect will of God?

The scripture.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

But of course, the next question is what scripture do we use when all the Bible versions are not saying the same thing? Sooner or later, one will have to ask the Lord Jesus Christ which Bible version to stick with and trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you understand His words in that Bible version.

I had used the NASB, even had a NIV daily Bible reading, but the Lord led me to rely on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good and evil in these latter days.

So I rely on Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd in comforming my mind not to the world's standard, but to His words as kept by those that loved Him & His words that are now presented in the KJV for us to have in following Him as His disciples.

But of course, each believer needs to confer with Him at that throne of grace, and not take my word for it. He is your Good Shepherd; not me.

 

[Tellastory]

Impossible!

Sin has three requirements:
1. it must be an evil
2. it must be known to be an evil
3. it is done in the full knowledge that it is an evil

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Believers need to trust Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to help them to discern and depart from iniquity by His actual words in the scripture for the message we are supposed to have as kept by those that loved Him & His words in the KJV.

But of course, believers need to go before that throne of grace and ask Him all the while trusting Him to be their Good Shepherd to respond.

 

[Extraneous]

Romans 13: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

How do we prove what is good and acceptable and perfect will of God?

The scripture.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

But of course, the next question is what scripture do we use when all the Bible versions are not saying the same thing? Sooner or later, one will have to ask the Lord Jesus Christ which Bible version to stick with and trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you understand His words in that Bible version.

I had used the NASB, even had a NIV daily Bible reading, but the Lord led me to rely on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good and evil in these latter days.

So I rely on Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd in comforming my mind not to the world's standard, but to His words as kept by those that loved Him & His words that are now presented in the KJV for us to have in following Him as His disciples.

But of course, each believer needs to confer with Him at that throne of grace, and not take my word for it. He is your Good Shepherd; not me.

So i need a KJV in one hand and a gun in the other. God bless america. Just kill me now. Im actually looking forward to it.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

But I think that is because Christianity has never been the religion OF Jesus; it is a religion ABOUT Jesus.

Deep and good Reminds me of how people turn from "church" because "all Christians are hypocrites" excuse, and I think it's because they are rejecting his (mis)baving followers, and missing HIM in the thought process.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

I see your point and don't necessarily disagree, but truth be told we all come to Christ because we want something. It could be we want not to go to hell, we like the idea of living forever in paradise, we just want to be part of it all, we need something that is missing in our life, or we need some thing physical like a loved one healed. marriage saved or some desperate immediate need...whatever. but regardless of how noble the reason, those things get us started, and hopfully on a path to, "Now that I've been here for awhile my reasons for being here have changed to more noble ones" Maybe one of the points we stop drinking the milk and move to meat?

I'd say the fact I didn't want to go to hell is what got me going, but God puts the threat there so I have no doubt he has no problem with the threat doing just as I feel he intended, to get us into his Kingdom. However, once in, things change, at least for the sincere, it did for me. For those who's heart never really changes and stay in it just for the reward, as long as they are obedient, they may still please God enough and that is enough of what he difines as love for him to count them worthy. Or there may be a point there where a fine line is crossed and they are not counted as worthy... IDK.

Thanks for sharing that! He draws us all into repentance and HE can do it any way HE wants.. being God and all.. I was simply really, really, really finally (Praise God) done with "ME" on the throne.

Should it be fear-based - that could be a whole new post

 

[Tellastory]

So i need a KJV in one hand and a gun in the other. God bless america. Just kill me now. Im actually looking forward to it.

No. I said you need to trust Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd. Once you do that, I know He will lead you to rely on one Bible version which I believe is the KJV for us to use today because not all the Bibles say the same thing.

Let's say you use the NASB. You read this in NASB.

It says in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit will not speak on His own initiative, but then you read Romans 8:26-27, the NASB says He does???

If you read the KJV at that link below, it maintains the testimony about the Holy Spirit in John 16:13 by saying in Romans 8:26-27 that He does not make His intercessions Himself for His intercessions are unspeakable as they cannot be uttered which is why the "he" is Jesus Christ that searches our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit and that is how the intercessions of the Spirit's are made known to God the Father and that is by the only Mediator between God and men.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 16:13;Romans 8:26-27&version=KJV;NASB

So what does that mean? The Holy Spirit will not use God's gift of tongues which is for speaking unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ), only to turn it around to use it as a form of prayer language because that would mean that the Holy Spirit can speak on His own initiative... that He can stop being the Spirit of Christ in relaying His words to us and speak for Himself, running against the truth in John 16:13.

ALL the modern Bibles says the same thing in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself but speak only what He hears and yet contradict that truth when it comes to Romans 8:26-27 in whatever modern Bible you are using, BUT not the KJV.

It was my Good Shepherd to help me see the truth in His words in the KJV to know that God's gift of tongues would never be used as a form of prayer language by the Holy Spirit.

I do not own a gun. I would say that would be conforming to the way of this world.

Remember how Jesus sent His disciples out into the world?

Matthew 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

STAVE, n. from staff

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. 6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

 

[donfish06]

Impossible!

Sin has three requirements:
1. it must be an evil
2. it must be known to be an evil
3. it is done in the full knowledge that it is an evil

Where is that in the scriptures? In the Old Testament there was an offering me for the sins of ignorance... that would be called adding to the scriptures, sir. Do you really think Paul knew he was sinning when he was persecuting the believers? He thought that they were heretics, and that he was doing the will of God.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Anyone under a "strong delusion" would not think that they were doing wrong. It is very unnerving seeing so many people make such bold statements that are not backed up by the Word. It's terrible.

 

[toLiJC]

Do you think there's a difference between the two? I am of the opinion that if one is a true Christian, a new-creation-lead-by-the-Spirit Christian then one will naturally (given their new nature) exemplify Christ-like actions and behaviors. What do you think?

1 John 2:1-11 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes."

Blessings

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

One thing that bothers me is when people talk about Christianity in terms of "tradition" and "heritage" and "good old yesteryear". Back in the "old days" most people were not true Christians. They were Christian-in-name-only. They were like the Pharisees, the hypocrites that Jesus warned us about.

How far are you going back for yesteryear.. the 50's - 70's maybe? Your sentences remind me of how amazing relevant His Word still is today and how sooooooooooo little the world has changed, and how thankful I am that He is the same.

I'm guessing when people talk about the "good old" they are referring to the music and dress in the church, socializing aspect. I think there may have been more "fakers" because church was such the "thing" to do, and atheism wasn't cool. jm2c

 

[Extraneous]

and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Im not a afraid. I wont be killing my enemies when the time comes, im looking forward to resting. I wont be hiding behind a politicians dress, like some scared little girl. Suffering has that effect on you, after a while you get numb and you are truly ready for anything.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

The whole world is full pf people who imagine they are saved and are not. According to some statistic I read recently, most of North America think they are Christians.
A very sad situation.

Yes, I try not to get wrapped up in stats (discouraging), but I think those same Christians would say there is no hell..