Being a Christian and tithing and offerings

[JohnClay]

I would carefully read 1 Corinthians 15.

Perhaps my beliefs will change and become more conservative in the future. BTW this is about the minister MLK:
Was Martin Luther King Jr. a Christian?
He stripped the doctrines of the divine sonship of Christ, the virgin birth and bodily resurrection of all literal meaning, saying, “we [could] argue with all degrees of logic that these doctrines are historically and [philosophically] untenable.”

 

[Lukaris]

A thing to remember is that the original major consequence of sin was death ( Romans 5:12-14). It was Cain who murdered his brother Abel that brought about moral degradation ( Genesis 4:1-15). It is in this fallen reality that we understand by science; science is neutral but it is mortal & ultimately, a death sentence (morals aside).

That being said, the moral consequence of sin cannot be ignored (Matthew 15:1-20, James 4:1-6 etc.). From the fall of Cain, Eve bore Seth who probably represents an ancestor figure of our current, conflicted human condition ( Genesis 4:25-26, Romans 2, Ecclesiastes 1 (all of Ecclesiastes, etc.). The logic of this world is death; the Lord overcame death so we will be able to live ( see Romans 8).

 

[aiki]

The idea of Jesus physically rising from the dead is harder for me to believe.

Why?

www.coldcasechristianity.com
www.crossexamined.org
www.reasonablefaith.org

 

[ml5363]

Thanks everyone.

BTW I was looking at the story of the rich young man in Matthew, Mark and Luke - the man is asking about how to get eternal life. As well as obeying the commandments Jesus said he needs to sell everything and give it to the poor. The man goes away sad and Jesus doesn't seem to tell him that he can still be saved. Also in Mark 12 and Luke 21 a poor widow is praised for giving everything she has to live on.

I believe the point in those scripture was that the rich young ruler lived his things wealth more than being saved or following Christ..where the window gave all she had because she had trust and faith in Christ

 

[SwordmanJr]

Also in Mark 12 and Luke 21 a poor widow is praised for giving everything she has to live on.

That temple treasury box had nothing to do with the tithe. If you go back into the Law of Moses and study the definition of the tithe, it NEVER had anything to do with the wages of wage earners. It was only a tenth of the increase from livestock and produce.

So, there is value in studying what the scriptures actually say, and what they do NOT say in relation to all the false teachings from pulpits over the centuries.

Jr

 

[HisCrossMyPeace]

I've been thinking about the idea of putting Jesus first but I'm reluctant to give a substantial offering... at the moment I might give 1% at the very most. I am struggling financially and my wife helps support me. I try to minimize my expenses. Is it possible to be saved while only giving about 1% or less? I guess you can only serve one master.

As far as I can understand, you are turning this problem totally upside down.

a) Yes, it’s possible to be a Christian and not give a single cent: The law of thitering had it’s end (Norwegian reading: it’s FINAL end) at Calvary, exactly like anything else “given by Moses”: Read Hebrews - carefully.

b) No, it’s not possible to come reluctant to Christ. When becoming a Christian, ANYTHING in one’s life belongs to God, one’s bank account(s) and wallet(s) included. One thus need to put it all for God and ask: “T thou knowest about my finacial struggles, thou know about my wife, about her heart and her possibilites, thou knowest about mine/our frigh for the facto running into bankcrupcy by wrong use of mine/our money and thou knowest about anything else. What doest THOU want me do at present.” Then one do like prescribet into 1 Corinthinas 16: “Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him,” Being reluctant to handle this way will close the door as, God don’t ask about a part you to be his, but ALL of you. Read Mark 10,21-22 again: “Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.” The problem was NOT his great possessions - Jesus LOVED him. The problem was his unvillingness to give Jesus everything what belonged to Him. Result: He could have been one of Christ's diciples and apostles, today we don't even know his name.

As youself mention, it’s only possible to serve ONE master, and are you not prepared to give him EVERYTHING in your life to him for HIS consideraton, you don’t have a master - and isn't Jesus your master, your Christianity is void and nothing.

Thus, JohnClay, put this issue - as everything else - down for Him while praying over the case, reading your Bible and requesting mature Christians abolut specific advice Then do from what you into His presence conclude about this case , be it no single cent or a lot more than 1 %. .

 

[JohnClay]

I’m worried about one of my sisters. Her rent takes up almost all of her pension. I heard she was going into to savings. She said there was a verse in Malachi that says you can test God on his promise to bless you if you tithe or something. She is still giving 10% in offerings. She is able survive but I think the rent will go even higher next year.

 

[Lukaris]

I’m worried about one of my sisters. Her rent takes up almost all of her pension. I heard she was going into to savings. She said there was a verse in Malachi that says you can test God on his promise to bless you if you tithe or something. She is still giving 10% in offerings. She is able survive but I think the rent will go even higher next year.

The Lord tells us in His prayer for us to pray for our daily needs. He wants us to practice charity but He doesn’t want us to bankrupt ourselves ( see Matthew 6:1-13).

 

[JohnClay]

BTW a couple of days ago my sisters went to Awakening Australia.... Pastor Todd White spent a few minutes trying to convince people to give as much money as possible... (1:26:48)

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...every form of currency in Australia... every piece of of paper that has money on it has been used for something sinful - it's been used for pornography - it's been used for sex trafficking - it's been used for drugs - it's been used for alcohol - it's been used for the most twisted and heinous of things honestly - so what happens is when we use money in that fashion we are funding the kingdom of darkness

Then he talks about using the money to be given to God....

 

[JohnClay]

The Lord tells us in His prayer for us to pray for our daily needs. He wants us to practice charity but He doesn’t want us to bankrupt ourselves ( see Matthew 6:1-13).

On the other hand it seems the mention of the poor widow seems to disagree with that:
Mark 12:41-44

But she gave even though she is poor. She put in everything she had. That was all she had to live on.

Luke 21:1-4

But even though she is poor, she put in everything. She had nothing left to live on

 

[Lukaris]

On the other hand it seems the mention of the poor widow seems to disagree with that:
Mark 12:41-44

Luke 21:1-4

Most of us will not be praised by the Lord in this world ( Luke 17:5-10). He wants us to do something and will condemn us if we do nothing ( Matthew 25:14-30).

 

[CoreyD]

I've been thinking about the idea of putting Jesus first but I'm reluctant to give a substantial offering... at the moment I might give 1% at the very most. I am struggling financially and my wife helps support me. I try to minimize my expenses. Is it possible to be saved while only giving about 1% or less? I guess you can only serve one master.

The best person to get a correct answer to this question, would be Jesus. Of course, the Bible expounds on his answer, since they are in agreement.

And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.” Luke 21:1-4

I hope that answer is clear for you.
Under the Mosaic law, tithing was done in behalf of the priesthood - The Levites did not have an inheritance - as well as the needy.
Deuteronomy 26:12
When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.
Numbers 18:20-30; Exodus 23:19; Leviticus 27:30-32

Christians are not bounded by the Mosaic Law, and that arrangement is not given to them.
Tithing is not a requirement for Christians.
That does not mean that the principle is not applied.
Christians care about the orphans and widows, and the less fortunate among them, as well as those who offer themselves to serve God self-sacrificingly, and so, they give voluntarily to support these.
God is pleased with this kind of generous giving. 2 Corinthians 8:12-15; 2 Corinthians 9:6, 7

So, all God requires of you, is that you give of your best, voluntarily, and willingly from the heart, whatever you so desire.
God does not stipulate how much you should give.

I think it is good that you want to show appreciation.
There are many, who are intimidated by the baskets passed in the churches, and I can't blame them.
Where is the money going, and what is it being used for?, some wonder.

 

[CoreyD]

Thanks everyone.

BTW I was looking at the story of the rich young man in Matthew, Mark and Luke - the man is asking about how to get eternal life. As well as obeying the commandments Jesus said he needs to sell everything and give it to the poor. The man goes away sad and Jesus doesn't seem to tell him that he can still be saved. Also in Mark 12 and Luke 21 a poor widow is praised for giving everything she has to live on.

Good job.
You can see then from these, it's about self-sacrificing service, and not money.

 

[CoreyD]

@A_Thinker
I find the story confusing. Jesus could have said "to have eternal life just follow me". Since the rich man left with the impression he couldn't be saved then it seems like he would have gone to hell...

That's a good observation.
Jesus highlighted the man's problem to him. He was attached to money, which is a problem for some.
Matthew 19:23, 24

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

1 Timothy 6:9, 10

9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

 

[CoreyD]

BTW I'm fond of a 1959 well-illustrated book called "Your Bible and You"
https://www.amazon.com/Your-Bible-You-Arthur-Maxwell/dp/B00GEB0W6G

I was just rereading it and it says:

It also goes into detail like "John D. Rockefeller began tithing when he was earning only $3.50 a week." and ".... all put God first in their finances and found themselves on the highway to prosperity".

Also:

I'd be careful with those John.
Listen to Jesus and the apostles. They will set you on the right path.
Tithing was never a Christian teaching, and it is important to understand why it was arranged.
I explained in my initial post.

 

[CoreyD]

Well I believe I'm lost so it would help to have more direction in life but I'm careful about what I accept as being true.

That's a good start.
It explains why you have been exploring the bible, and I can tell, you have been touched by some things.

I commend you highly for being careful.
This is recommended, since as jesus warned “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many." Matthew 24:11, and "many false prophets have gone out into the world". 1 John 4:1

Do you also pray to God, in order to find your way?
This is essential, because if you do not pray, perhaps because you are not sure anyone will hear you, the apostle James says, "he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind... let that man not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord." James 1:6, 7

There have been persons who did not believe strongly in God, but they did not let doubt hold them back from praying.
Their prayer helped them to find the way, because god listens to prayers that come from sincere hearts searching for him. Acts 17:26, 27; Psalm 65:2; Psalm 145:18

 

[CoreyD]

The idea of Jesus physically rising from the dead is harder for me to believe.

That's okay.
One step at a time.
After all, we don't start to walk before we crawl.

If you believe there is an all powerful creator, who made the things in heaven and earth, believing in the resurrection is not hard at all.
So, would it not be better to get past the first stage, which is, is there actually a creator God, who made all things?
That is the elementary stage - crawling.

Have you ever seriously investigated this question?

 

[CoreyD]

I’m worried about one of my sisters. Her rent takes up almost all of her pension. I heard she was going into to savings. She said there was a verse in Malachi that says you can test God on his promise to bless you if you tithe or something. She is still giving 10% in offerings. She is able survive but I think the rent will go even higher next year.

I'm sorry.
I wish your sister and others like her, knew the truth, and that God does not require she give a tenth of her earnings.
However, this is the sad reality, and result of people being led along on the road Jesus described at Matthew 7:13

Some people are not entirely to blame for this, because we are raised by our parents, and end up in one religion or other... or none at all, and we grow up thinking that being in that religion is okay.
Some never question whether it is true or not - good or bad. they just go along.

I think it is good to have an agnostic mind about religion, and search for answers ourselves.
That way, we are more open to question what has been handed down to us, and we are more prone to see what is true, for ourselves.

The churches are packed with people who are in a zombie like state.
They go to church ritualistically, but they come out just as they went in.
I hope your sister at some point studies this topic of tithing for herself... as well as all the other things she has been taught there.

 

[JohnClay]

If you believe there is an all powerful creator, who made the things in heaven and earth, believing in the resurrection is not hard at all.

I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force. I think "ALL evidence of God and the paranormal can be explained by skeptics as coincidence, delusion, hallucinations, or fraud".
Like "God" says in Futurama "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"....
I don't think that anything that broke the rules of physics has ever happened or it least I can't convince atheists that that has happened.

 

[CoreyD]

I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force.

I don't understand. What's that?

I think "ALL evidence of God and the paranormal can be explained by skeptics as coincidence, delusion, hallucinations, or fraud".

That would mean you have examined all the prophecies in the Bible, and you think they are fraud. Is that correct?

Like "God" says in Futurama "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"....

I'm not familiar with this show. It's the first time I am hearing this.

I don't think that anything that broke the rules of physics has ever happened or it least I can't convince atheists that that has happened.

Do you think it would be unreasonable to say I know everything?
If someone said to you that man knows all the "laws of physics" and there is nothing that can surprise/baffle him regarding this "superior knowledge", what would you say to that person?