Before Birth

[drstevej]

They will be dealt with justly whether you deem it fair or not.

 

[MormonFriend]

God created free will. Satan and his angels chose to disobey and be kicked out. Adam and Eve chose to eat the forbidden fruit. In this life, and this life only, we can choose to follow God through His Son Jesus Christ or not.

You missed my point. Many choose to follow God, and many choose not to. We are different, and because of our difference, we make different choices that have major consequences. Who created that difference that is in us? What is the source of of different personalities?

 

[BigDaddy4]

You missed my point. Many choose to follow God, and many choose not to. We are different, and because of our difference, we make different choices that have major consequences. Who created that difference that is in us? What is the source of of different personalities?

Just because you don't understand it or agree with it, doesn't make it not so.

God is the judge of what is fair and just. His thoughts are not our thoughts, nor are His ways our ways. It is not your place to take that judgement seat from Him.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I wonder if one can be an intellectual idolator (thinking they know more than God) and still get a temple recommend?

 

[MormonFriend]

Originally Posted by MormonFriend
You missed my point. Many choose to follow God, and many choose not to. We are different, and because of our difference, we make different choices that have major consequences. Who created that difference that is in us? What is the source of of different personalities?

Just because you don't understand it or agree with it, doesn't make it not so.

God is the judge of what is fair and just. His thoughts are not our thoughts, nor are His ways our ways. It is not your place to take that judgement seat from Him.

In other words, you don't know why your perception of God, and His purposes are not just, ... that the pieces of your scriptural puzzle don't fit together.

Scripture teaches us that God is Just. Why would scripture teach us that, if we were not entitled to know what His Justice is? Knowing that God is Just enables us to see false doctrines that have precepts showing pieces of the scriptural puzzle fitting in such a way that demonstrates injustice. Being created ex-nihilo is such a precept. If we were created from nothing, then everything we are is 100% the result of what God made us to be. Did God create Judas for the purpose of betraying the Christ, and becoming perdition?

A Just God could not do that. God does exist. He did create us. It could not have been ex-nihilo.

 

[drstevej]

In other words, you don't know why your perception of God, and His purposes are not just, ... that the pieces of your scriptural puzzle don't fit together.

Scripture teaches us that God is Just. Why would scripture teach us that, if we were not entitled to know what His Justice is? Knowing that God is Just enables us to see false doctrines that have precepts showing pieces of the scriptural puzzle fitting in such a way that demonstrates injustice. Being created ex-nihilo is such a precept. If we were created from nothing, then everything we are is 100% the result of what God made us to be. Did God create Judas for the purpose of betraying the Christ, and becoming perdition?

A Just God could not do that. God does exist. He did create us. It could not have been ex-nihilo.

So YOU decide what is just? and the limits of God's power and existence?

Can you speak things into existence >> Let there be Light! not Let Me make some Light, now where are those component parts that just happened to exist?

 

[BigDaddy4]

In other words, you don't know why your perception of God, and His purposes are not just, ... that the pieces of your scriptural puzzle don't fit together.

Scripture teaches us that God is Just. Why would scripture teach us that, if we were not entitled to know what His Justice is? Knowing that God is Just enables us to see false doctrines that have precepts showing pieces of the scriptural puzzle fitting in such a way that demonstrates injustice. Being created ex-nihilo is such a precept. If we were created from nothing, then everything we are is 100% the result of what God made us to be. Did God create Judas for the purpose of betraying the Christ, and becoming perdition?

A Just God could not do that. God does exist. He did create us. It could not have been ex-nihilo.

Perhaps when you repent of your intellectual idolatry you may see things more clearly. You are clearly purporting to know more than God on how He operates. You, the creation, do not get to judge God, the Creator.

I wonder what a "Just God" would do to someone who is making judgements about Him?

 

[Norah63]

Yes we were with our Creator before we came here to earth. That's how it is. Gen. 2;4-7
I don't know Hebrew or Greek or any exegete, just have the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth.
The verse I gave a few pages earlier was just brushed off with some fancy term of, 'that's not how it is'.
Playing pretty fast and loose with the words of scripture to not let a person read and receive.

 

[LegacyJB]

Perhaps when you repent of your intellectual idolatry you may see things more clearly. You are clearly purporting to know more than God on how He operates. You, the creation, do not get to judge God, the Creator.

I wonder what a "Just God" would do to someone who is making judgements about Him?

Where did he say he knows more than God? All he said was God doesn't use the ex niliho method because such a concept is merely manmade. We lived with God before this life. He didn't decide to just go "Poof. Earth. Poof. People." He is a God of order.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Where did he say he knows more than God? All he said was God doesn't use the ex niliho method because such a concept is merely manmade. We lived with God before this life. He didn't decide to just go "Poof. Earth. Poof. People." He is a God of order.

You answered your own question and joined in the idolatry. Congrats.

 

[LegacyJB]

You answered your own question and joined in the idolatry. Congrats.

By explaining something that's true? Talking about truth is idolatry? Dang. I guess Jesus was an idolater too.

 

[n2thelight]

To understand this better,one must have knowledge of the three ,Heaven and earth ages...

The below is an excerpt,with the full study at the link following...I don't expect all to see and many won't,but for those who desire a deeper truth,I hope you enjoy....

THREE EARTH AGES
In Jesus name we ask you Father for wisdom and understanding your truth about the three Earth Ages, Amen.​

I'm sure many, many people do not know that there are three Earth and Heaven ages or eons of time. One Earth and one Heaven however three earth and heaven ages.​

To understand the Bible it is very important to learn about the ages because it will help you to understand God's plan for mankind as to where we came from, how or why we came to be in these flesh bodies, and what the future will be for us from the plan of God. The Bible is just not about stories written a long time ago. The Bible also tells us about a plan that our Father has for us from the beginning of this second earth age or from the foundation of this world age.

I always wondered where, why, and how I got to be in this flesh body and never believed I came from an Ape, so I finally found the answers from the Living word of Jesus Christ, the Bible, the word of God. And through the Holy Spirit He opened my eyes and I finally found peace and the truth of what I was looking for on this subject.​

Is it the same for you? Did you always feel there was more to God's word then you were taught? If so, please forget everything you ever heard about this subject for awhile and start as a babe seeking knowledge and truth for the first time. Then ask your Heavenly Father for wisdom and understanding in Jesus name, then you can make your own mind up as to what you believe.​

Eph.3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.
Eph.3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;​

We will start on the first Earth Age because it is hard to keep the Earth Ages separate by Scripture however, all three will be talked about.
The first Earth Age​

Gen 1:1In the beginning God(elohiym = the one true God.)created the heaven(shamayim)and the earth.(erets)​

Verse 1 states that "In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth".​

Now ask yourself when was the beginning of Heaven and Earth? The answer to this question is the key to learning God's word. You must know the beginning you can understand the end.​

So let's start by finding out when the beginning of the world started.​

1.In the beginning - Now, when was the beginning of Heaven and Earth? Many think the beginning was about 6,ooo years ago because the Bible begins about 6,000 years ago.​

This is not true as you will see because the beginning started billions of years ago. The strong's concordance states that the word beginning "Hebrew number H7223 ri'shown = rē·shone" means first, former, former things, beginning, before, old time, foremost, aforetime.​

we do not know when the beginning started because a date is not given, so the first verse in the Bible does not tell us when the beginning was.​

2. now for the word "created" this word means "H1254 - bara'to create, shape, form (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject). So God shaped, fashioned, and created the Heaven and the Earth. Again, no date is given.​

3. heaven = H8064( heaven, heavens, sky, as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc. Heaven (as the abode of God).​

4. earth = H776 - 'erets land, earth, whole earth (as opposed to a part) earth (as opposed to heaven) )earth (inhabitants).​

What does all this mean? "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". Period. So we do not know when God created the Heaven and the Earth nor do we know exactly how old the earth is however, we know from Technology, Science, Geology, and whatever this Earth is billions of years old. Eons of time.​

The statement below is from the leading scientist about how old this Earth is. You can also do a study yourself on the net about how old the Earth is.
It is theorized that the true age of the earth is about 4.6 billion years old, formed at about the same time as the rest of our solar system. The oldest rocks geologists have been able to find are 3.9 billion years old.​

Using radiometric dating methods to determine the age of rocks means scientists have to rely on when the rock was initially formed (as in - when its internal minerals first cooled). Since we can only measure as far back in time as we had solid rock on this planet, we are limited in how we can measure the real age of the earth so nobody knows how old earth is because God does not give a date.​

Let's go to Genesis and read more on this subject.
Gen1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen1:7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
firmament= Strong's H7549 - raqiyaof - vault of heaven supporting waters above. as solid and supporting waters above.
Now! if the waters were above the earth protecting it there were no oceans and seas on earth as we know now so give this a little thought right now and look at a world map and imagine there is no oceans and seas. Now look at only the world's land and you will see that the earth fits together perfectly like a puzzle. That is what the first earth age looked liked with waters above and not on the earth.​

Gen1:8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
one thousand years.
Gen1:9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
The earth was made as it is now with seas and oceans. No firmament above to protect the earth from storms, sun rays, pollution, meteors, jet stream and not on it's perfect axis as it was in the first earth age.
Gen1:10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Now we are in the second earth age because God told us He removed the firmament above making Oceans and Seas.
What do we know.
What has been found through the years? Fossils, Dinosaurs

with buttercups still in their mouth as they were instantly frozen, an
Angelic footprint,

layers of rocks on a mountain side, and so on.
How about oil

that is from dinosaur bones or remains?​

This picture of an angelic footprint is impressed into solid stone in New Mexico U.S.A. The rock that it is impressed into is conservatively dated at 10 million years old, the University of New Mexico dates the rock formation in which the footprint is indented into back to 50 million years ago.
So some kind of angelic beings existed millions or billions of years ago to make this angelic footprint.​

Now what is an angelic footprint? It had to be a spiritual body or being that made this footprint. A spiritual body that dwells within these flesh bodies because we were made in the image of God and the Angels. So let's go to scripture to see what our Father says.

Gen1:26 And God said, Let us make man in ourimage, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
our image.
image = H6754 - tselem = image, likeness (of resemblance) mere, empty, image, semblance, meaning other spiritual bodies or people were with Him in the first earth age.​

Gen.1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day
Naturally the above verses pertain to this second earth age of the flesh. I'm trying to show you that if we were made flesh in this earth age we had to be with God and all people in spiritual bodies in the first earth age because God says "Let us make man in
our image". So God created all races of male and female on the sixth day and the seed line for Christ starting with Adam and Eve on the eighth day.​

Who were these spiritual bodies or people? They were God's Angels, Christ, and us, meaning people that were or is now in the flesh body in this second earth age were angelic beings in the first earth age.
How do I know Christ was their? John Ch1 says it below.
John1:27 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Who is the living word? Jesus Christ.​

John1:28 The same was in the beginning with God.
Christ was in the beginning with God however, we do not know when the beginning was.
John1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Who is our light? Jesus Christ.
Now if we were created in the image of God we must have His features and surely we were with Him in the first earth age, the age we do not know how old it was. We were in our spiritual bodies with Him and that is how the angelic footprint came to be.
So now we know what an angelic footprint

is and this print could be from someone that was born of woman and came through this earth age, being the second in flesh bodies.
In this Earth age we are to be born of woman to choose whom we will follow. Good or evil, satan or Christ and what we choose in this earth age determines if we will be included in the third or last earth age.​

The nature of the bodies that we are to be in during the three various earth ages are not all the same as they are now. We have a natural body or flesh body and within our flesh bodies our spiritual body dwell because when we die or pass on, our spirit instantly goes back to the Father who created it. Ecc12:7 below.
Ecc12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
So we have a spiritual body and a flesh body and the spiritual body was in the first earth age with our Father and Christ.​

Again you can read the full study at the below link​

http://revelation7seals.com/three%20earth%20ages.htm​

 

[MormonFriend]

Originally Posted by MormonFriend
In other words, you don't know why your perception of God, and His purposes are not just, ... that the pieces of your scriptural puzzle don't fit together.

Scripture teaches us that God is Just. Why would scripture teach us that, if we were not entitled to know what His Justice is? Knowing that God is Just enables us to see false doctrines that have precepts showing pieces of the scriptural puzzle fitting in such a way that demonstrates injustice. Being created ex-nihilo is such a precept. If we were created from nothing, then everything we are is 100% the result of what God made us to be. Did God create Judas for the purpose of betraying the Christ, and becoming perdition?

A Just God could not do that. God does exist. He did create us. It could not have been ex-nihilo.

So YOU decide what is just? ...

No, I have learned what is just by reading about, and following the example of my Savior. By that Standard, I know that He could not have created us from nothing, and then condemn many of us for being exactly what He created.

We were created in His image and in His LIKENESS! My potential attributes are His attributes, if I develop them through the training schedule of His gospel. He commanded us to be perfect, as His Father in Heaven is perfect. That would include perfecting the attribute of justice. Justice is a part of love.

If we do not know anything about what is just, then we can not understand scripture. Justice is used many times as a standard for relating truth. By that Standard, I know that God could not create ex-nihilo, as I illustrated above.

 

[Norah63]

Isnt that what eternal represents, never ending.
Restoration of order out of disarray continually

 

[drstevej]

By that Standard, I know that He could not have created us from nothing

Mormon Friend, who said Jesus created US from nothing? Not me!

I quoted the Bible: "Let there be light!" יְהִי אוֹר

My potential attributes are His attributes

How are you doing with omni-presence?

 

[Norah63]

Potential, is the key word there as I read it.
Be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
NOT a power struggle, no one does away with anything of another.
Becoming a child of God is God's will for us.