Been told

[from scratch]

I don't have a clue what the first covenant is. So I'm here on a fact finding mission. I guess while we are at it I would like to see how many covenants there are and if any have a relationship with another, If so what is that relationship?

 

[bugkiller]

This should be interesting. I'll watch it with glee on the sidelines as a lurker.

bugkiller

 

[JohnRabbit]

first, let's get some foundation settled before we start.

cov·e·nant (from dictionary.com)
[kuhv-uh-nuhnt]
–noun
1.
an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.
2.
Law . an incidental clause in such an agreement.
3.
Ecclesiastical . a solemn agreement between the members of a church to act together in harmony with the precepts of the gospel.
4.
( initial capital letter ) History/Historical .
a.
National Covenant.
b.
Solemn League and Covenant.
5.
Bible .
a.
the conditional promises made to humanity by god, as revealed in Scripture.
b.
the agreement between God and the ancient Israelites, in which God promised to protect them if they kept His law and were faithful to Him.
6.
Law .
a.
a formal agreement of legal validity, esp. one under seal.
b.
an early English form of action in suits involving sealed contracts.
7.
Covenant of the League of Nations.
–verb (used without object)
8.
to enter into a covenant.
–verb (used with object)
9.
to promise by covenant; pledge.
10.
to stipulate.


do we agree that the definition above is that of a covenant?

 

[from scratch]

first, let's get some foundation settled before we start.

cov·e·nant (from dictionary.com)
[kuhv-uh-nuhnt]
–noun
1.
an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.
2.
Law . an incidental clause in such an agreement.
3.
Ecclesiastical . a solemn agreement between the members of a church to act together in harmony with the precepts of the gospel.
4.
( initial capital letter ) History/Historical .
a.
National Covenant.
b.
Solemn League and Covenant.
5.
Bible .
a.
the conditional promises made to humanity by god, as revealed in Scripture.
b.
the agreement between God and the ancient Israelites, in which God promised to protect them if they kept His law and were faithful to Him.
6.
Law .
a.
a formal agreement of legal validity, esp. one under seal.
b.
an early English form of action in suits involving sealed contracts.
7.
Covenant of the League of Nations.
–verb (used without object)
8.
to enter into a covenant.
–verb (used with object)
9.
to promise by covenant; pledge.
10.
to stipulate.


do we agree that the definition above is that of a covenant?

Sounds reasonable to me.I was looking for something more substancial though.

 

[Frogster]

This should be interesting. I'll watch it with glee on the sidelines as a lurker.

bugkiller

me 2, ready to leap in, when i see an opening.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Sounds reasonable to me.I was looking for something more substancial though.

you're funny

 

[Son of Israel]

I don't have a clue what the first covenant is. So I'm here on a fact finding mission. I guess while we are at it I would like to see how many covenants there are and if any have a relationship with another, If so what is that relationship?

There's a number of different covenants that unfold in the Torah and another specifically in 2 Sam 7. Some of which include;

Gen 3:15 ~ where the son of the woman would destroy sin and death (fulfilled in Jesus in us)

The Abrahamic covenant ~ The everlasting covenant of Children and eternal Life (Gen chapter 15 through 49)
(fulfilled in Jesus in us)

Marriage Covenant to Israel ~ Where God married Israel, divorced her, then promised to remarry here in a New marriage Covenant (as referred to in Jer 31: 31-34)
(Fulfilled in Christ's marriage in us)

The Everlasting House and Throne Covenant God made with David in 2 Sam 7.
(fulfilled in Christ now on the Throne over His Christian/Israel House)

There is also a levitical salt covenant that is fulfilled upon us as the "salt of the earth" Jesus told us we are. There are some other smaller covenants as well.

They all pointed forward to their fulfillment in Jesus. We see it all 2000 years hence fulfilled, being fulfilled and continuing to be fulfilled in Christ's Body of believers.

All aspects came together in Christ. We now, today, are welcomed to come be a part of it all, a free offering, all has been completed and prepared for us to sit and eat with Him now

Blessings in the New Covenant in Christ's Blood!

 

[Son of Israel]

me 2, ready to leap in, when i see an opening.

 

[Frogster]

hey ole friend..this should be fun, talking with people that think it sin, to eat a pork chop!

 

[Frogster]

you're funny

bro, with all due respect, your rabbit is stewed, you got scratch, SOI, and your humble frog, ready to bring all your thoughts to the obedience to Christ.

you know, in a funny way, i kinda fell bad for ya.

Good luck! let the rumble in the jungle begin!

 

[Son of Israel]

hey ole friend..this should be fun, talking with people that think it sin, to eat a pork chop!

Oh no, don't tell me! Good to see you though froggy Are you sure? Such a wonderful topic as this to just get derailed into bondage and death? ah!

 

[from scratch]

There's a number of different covenants that unfold in the Torah and another specifically in 2 Sam 7. Some of which include;

Gen 3:15 ~ where the son of the woman would destroy sin and death (fulfilled in Jesus in us)

The Abrahamic covenant ~ The everlasting covenant of Children and eternal Life (Gen chapter 15 through 49)
(fulfilled in Jesus in us)

Marriage Covenant to Israel ~ Where God married Israel, divorced her, then promised to remarry here in a New marriage Covenant (as referred to in Jer 31: 31-34)
(Fulfilled in Christ's marriage in us)

The Everlasting House and Throne Covenant God made with David in 2 Sam 7.
(fulfilled in Christ now on the Throne over His Christian/Israel House)

There is also a levitical salt covenant that is fulfilled upon us as the "salt of the earth" Jesus told us we are. There are some other smaller covenants as well.

They all pointed forward to their fulfillment in Jesus. We see it all 2000 years hence fulfilled, being fulfilled and continuing to be fulfilled in Christ's Body of believers.

All aspects came together in Christ. We now, today, are welcomed to come be a part of it all, a free offering, all has been completed and prepared for us to sit and eat with Him now

Blessings in the New Covenant in Christ's Blood!

Your to much. There are 7 covenants in the list of major covenants. The one we call the first covenant is not the first covenant to be made. That is made very clear by Hebrews 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. This is very explicit in that the 2nd is the NC which is talked about fairly extensively in Hebrews and the rest of the NT. It is referred as the second because it replaces the first. There is only one covenant that I know of mentioned as being replaced. I find that in Jer 31:31-34. If you know of another covenant that is spoken of to be replaced I am all ears. It is identified in Deut 4:13 and 5:1-3. Yes I haven't inserted all the discussable details yet. You're free to be the first.

Now the first and second covenant that JohnRabbit and I are talking about are the law as issued from Mt Sinai and grace (as issued by Jesus) covenants. The basic argument as I understand it is there in reality is no new covenant which is a renewed covenant. Thus in reality the rules of the first (law) covenant are in force and we haven't been delivered from it. Salvation can indeed come by the law - after all Jesus says so Mat 19.

So get strapped in and hang on tight she's gonna be a ride.

I sure don't understand bringing in all those other covenants. But we do have to identify the first one because that is what we're talking about here.

Both you and Frogster are certianly invited along for whatever ensues. Lets have some fun!

 

[from scratch]

hey ole friend..this should be fun, talking with people that think it sin, to eat a pork chop!

I think we will be too! And warm weather is coming. Just don't eat to many chops OK.

 

[Frogster]

To late fellas, we are all defiled.

Does SOI, or scratch, or bugkiller know where i can go to get ceremonially clean? I feel dirty.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

first, you must have a ceremony ..

then declare yourself CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN~!

three times makes it a charm . yepp .

weren't we supposed to be clean on the inside as a general focus?

 

[Son of Israel]

Your to much. There are 7 covenants in the list of major covenants. The one we call the first covenant is not the first covenant to be made. That is made very clear by Hebrews 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. This is very explicit in that the 2nd is the NC which is talked about fairly extensively in Hebrews and the rest of the NT. It is referred as the second because it replaces the first. There is only one covenant that I know of mentioned as being replaced. I find that in Jer 31:31-34. If you know of another covenant that is spoken of to be replaced I am all ears. It is identified in Deut 4:13 and 5:1-3. Yes I haven't inserted all the discussable details yet. You're free to be the first.

Now the first and second covenant that JohnRabbit and I are talking about are the law as issued from Mt Sinai and grace (as issued by Jesus) covenants. The basic argument as I understand it is there in reality is no new covenant which is a renewed covenant. Thus in reality the rules of the first (law) covenant are in force and we haven't been delivered from it. Salvation can indeed come by the law - after all Jesus says so Mat 19.

So get strapped in and hang on tight she's gonna be a ride.

I sure don't understand bringing in all those other covenants. But we do have to identify the first one because that is what we're talking about here.

Both you and Frogster are certianly invited along for whatever ensues. Lets have some fun!

I never said any were replaced. I used the word "fulfilled" as by Christ and the writers of the New Covenant.
What is your problem?
Why the evil spirit?
I'm "free to be the first" to what?

who do you think you are?
I don't care what you are talking about. You sound bereft of the spirit of "all you intend to do here". Your carnal mind is just oozing here. whoever you are you have nothing of interest to say I can tell right now.
If you have an issue with what I said take it up with God. He'll slap you down fast with that attitude.

You obviously know nothing of Covenants if you argued with what I posted.

 

[from scratch]

To late fellas, we are all defiled.

Does SOI, or scratch, or bugkiller know where i can go to get ceremonially clean? I feel dirty.

Well Frogster you have already been to the cross. I don't know where else to go.

 

[from scratch]

I never said any were replaced. I used the word "fulfilled" as by Christ and the writers of the New Covenant.
What is your problem?
Why the evil spirit?
I'm "free to be the first" to what?

who do you think you are?
I don't care what you are talking about. You sound bereft of the spirit of "all you intend to do here". Your carnal mind is just oozing here. whoever you are you have nothing of interest to say I can tell right now.
If you have an issue with what I said take it up with God. He'll slap you down fast with that attitude.

You obviously know nothing of Covenants if you argued with what I posted.

I know you didn't say anything about something being replaced. But that (first covenant in my verse) is the focus of the thread. JohnRabbit is going to show that I don't understand the Covenant made at Mt Sinai for some reason. At least this is what I think. I am not real sure what his idea or intention is. He hasn't shown his hand yet. Perhaps he is trying to get his presentation to an irrefutible position. I don't know. I do eagerly and impatiently wait. I think that JohnRabbit is going to discuss the contents of that covenant. Have to wait and see. I said the NC replaced the OC and gave a scrpture to back my point. Not a single thing in your response refers to what I said. I brought you back to the point of the thread - the first covenant. Perhaps I gave to much information at this stage. Please reread my post.

The thread is not about which is the first covenant anyway. It is about the contents of the first covenant. I think that I identified that covenant for you and the discussion.

I am just scratch. What do I intend to do here? Defend my position which has been challenged. So let's see what happens. Prove me wrong as you accuse. I'm willing to listen to facts. I bet ya it just might be very interesting. Join forces with JohnRabbit, He said I didn't know. He is the one to prove his point. He is the inspiration behind the thread. It is his challenge and I called with a show em if you got em. I will be delighted to show my aces over kings full house. Do you really have four of a kind? You might ask JohnRabbit what his challenge is. So far you have listed what you call covenants. Can or will you back it up? Genesis 3:15 is not a covenant. It is a promise to perform and not even spoken to Adam. JohnRabbit provided a definition I agree to. So get after it and leave the personal stuff in grade school.

So what do you say about my Hebrew reference on first and second? I think that is what JohnRabbit is talking about. Can you first identify that covenant? Then what do you have to say about it. My interest is only in how it affects salvation. So what is the purpose of the first covenant? I have read the contents of it, so that is not the question. The real question is the I don't understand and therefore asked.

Cat and mouse is a lot of fun. Who is the cat and who is the mouse? Or is the mouse scaring the cat? Lets find out. Tweetie Bird watches. There may even be a fuss over who is Tweetie Bird.

 

[bugkiller]

I know you didn't say anything about something being replaced. But that (first covenant in my verse) is the focus of the thread. JohnRabbit is going to show that I don't understand the Covenant made at Mt Sinai for some reason. At least this is what I think. I am not real sure what his idea or intention is. He hasn't shown his hand yet. Perhaps he is trying to get his presentation to an irrefutible position. I don't know. I do eagerly and impatiently wait. I think that JohnRabbit is going to discuss the contents of that covenant. Have to wait and see. I said the NC replaced the OC and gave a scrpture to back my point. Not a single thing in your response refers to what I said. I brought you back to the point of the thread - the first covenant. Perhaps I gave to much information at this stage. Please reread my post.

The thread is not about which is the first covenant anyway. It is about the contents of the first covenant. I think that I identified that covenant for you and the discussion.

I am just scratch. What do I intend to do here? Defend my position which has been challenged. So let's see what happens. Prove me wrong as you accuse. I'm willing to listen to facts. I bet ya it just might be very interesting. Join forces with JohnRabbit, He said I didn't know. He is the one to prove his point. He is the inspiration behind the thread. It is his challenge and I called with a show em if you got em. I will be delighted to show my aces over kings full house. Do you really have four of a kind? You might ask JohnRabbit what his challenge is. So far you have listed what you call covenants. Can or will you back it up? Genesis 3:15 is not a covenant. It is a promise to perform and not even spoken to Adam. JohnRabbit provided a definition I agree to. So get after it and leave the personal stuff in grade school.

So what do you say about my Hebrew reference on first and second? I think that is what JohnRabbit is talking about. Can you first identify that covenant? Then what do you have to say about it. My interest is only in how it affects salvation. So what is the purpose of the first covenant? I have read the contents of it, so that is not the question. The real question is the I don't understand and therefore asked.

Cat and mouse is a lot of fun. Who is the cat and who is the mouse? Or is the mouse scaring the cat? Lets find out. Tweetie Bird watches. There may even be a fuss over who is Tweetie Bird.

Can I be Tweetie Bird? At least It will be safe in the cage.

bugkiller

 

[from scratch]

Can I be Tweetie Bird? At least It will be safe in the cage.

bugkiller

Didn't take long. Sure you can be Tweetie Bird. There may be others and we might have a few cages. Will the real Tweetie Bird show, please?