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Bear and three ribs:

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by PhillipLaSpino, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. PhillipLaSpino

    PhillipLaSpino Achieve; don’t plunder!

    For discussion only:

    Dan.7:5, “And behold another beast, a second, like a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, and devour much flesh.”

    I took Dan.7:5 and broke down every Hebrew word in the verse, and following is what I found.

    Most commentators believe the bear represents Persia, and the three ribs may represent other empires, kingdoms, military or political powers. But I approached the subject as a spiritual matter, it having a theme of a hostile takeover of Christ’s authority and power. In this takeover of power and authority certain men over the centuries declared that they alone controlled the keys of heaven and hell; and through their own mandates changed the gospel of God, to the doctrines of hell.

    Using the Strong’s # system I have posting the Strong's # next to each word in the text, than paraphrase the verse. This is the Hebrew meaning of key words in the verse.

    Dan.7:5, Another beast, the 2ed beast was like a bear (#1678, the bear symbolizing an enemy or a slanderer, one who prejudges), it (the bear) raised (#6966 stood) itself on one side (#7859 meaning to apostatized, agandoned the faith, departed from), and it (the bear) had three ribs (5967 ribs meaning it absorbed, sucked, swallowed down as blood) in the mouth (# 6433) of it (the bear) between the teeth,(#8128 teeth meaning anything sharp or pointed, or as having a single position) and was told to arise (# 6966 stand), devour (# 399 eat, devour) much flesh (# 1321 mankind).”

    Paraphrased, “The 2ed beast raised itself up, slandered, apostatized, threatened and murdered, drank the blood of, and destroyed the souls of many with deceiving words.”

    The majority of commentators believe the bear represents Persia, and the ribs, Media, Lydia, Babylon, or Egypt (you pick your three) as being ground in the teeth of the Persian bear.

    But I took a little different approach. For the sake of discussion, let's say the three ribs in the mouth of the bear are three periods of time, the first beginning with Christ being cut off at the cross, Dan.9:26.

    Here are a few of the possibilities, the bear represents the slanderer and the three ribs either,
    1. Media, Lydia, Babylon, or Egypt: you pick your 3.

    2. Or some political, religious, and social entities:

    3. Three military powers:

    4. Or possibly the following: In Rev.2, we find the letter to the seven churches. In this letter, we find three heretical doctrines mentioned.

    A. The deeds of the Nicolatans., Rev.2:6;

    B. The doctrines of Balaam, Rev.2:14; and these also hold to the doctrines of the Nicolaitans.

    C. And the teaching and seduction of the woman Jezebel who seduced God’s servants, and committed fornication, Rev.2:20.

    I have applied these three doctrines to three separate periods of time, each being 666 years and ending in the year 2027 A.D. So the question is, have these three doctrines become interwoven with the doctrines of the gospel of Christ over the centuries; and is there any evidence that they may be directly linked to the churches fall (for the most part) from grace? Can these be the three ribs the bear holds in its mouth? They appear to fit very well with the history of Christianity.

    I have investigate the growth of the early churches from the time of the crucifiction; the power play of men who took for themselves Christ’s glory and authority for their own greed? In the early church these men claimed to be the Vicar’s of Christ, the Holy See, demanding for their own, Christ’s authority and taking for them self His glory.

    In this play for power, they demanded the soul’s of every believer, and claimed authority over nations. They claim to hold the keys to heaven and hell. Their actions sowed the seeds for anti-Semitism; Mohamadism; bringing to bear upon the nations their crusades; and upon men their inquisitions. In a final act of disobedience they plastered over the finished work of the cross, fashioning for themselves images of saints, than bringing the people to the feet of these images in worship with the threat of excommunication, torture, or death.

    The three periods would be

    1. from Christs crucifiction to the 7th century;

    2. From the 7th to the 14th century;

    3. From the 14th to the year 2027 A.D.

    Your thoughts;

    Phil LaSpino
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    I think you are barking up the wrong tree here, Phil. I find the 666 year's idea interesting, but I don't think it will go anywhere.

    With the Dan 7:5 translation, the word H7859, shetar, doesn't mean "apostastize", it just means "side". I think it's a far stretch trying to take it to mean what you said.

    But since we are discussing that verse, I think it would be more enlightening to look at other verses in the same vein as Dan 7. The 3 ribs are: Ephraim (apostate king of Samaria/ northern 10 tribe Israel; Jacob, and Judah.

    Hosea 12

    Ephraim feeds on the wind
    and pursues the east wind all day long;
    they multiply falsehood and violence;
    they make a covenant with Assyria,
    and oil is carried to Egypt.

    2The Lord has an indictment against Judah
    and will punish Jacob according to his ways;
    he will repay him according to his deeds.
    3In the womb he took his brother by the heel,
    and in his manhood he strove with God.
    4He strove with the angel and prevailed;
    he wept and sought his favor.
    He met Goda at Bethel,
    and there God spoke with us—
    5the Lord, the God of hosts,
    the Lord is his memorial name:
    6“So you, by the help of your God, return,
    hold fast to love and justice,
    and wait continually for your God.”
    7 A merchant, in whose hands are false balances,
    he loves to oppress.

    [Ephraim = the false prophet/ black horseman holds the scales in charge of 666]

    8Ephraim has said, “Ah, but I am rich;
    I have found wealth for myself;
    in all my labors they cannot find in me iniquity or sin.”
    9I am the Lord your God
    from the land of Egypt;
    I will again make you dwell in tents,
    as in the days of the appointed feast.
    10 I spoke to the prophets;
    it was I who multiplied visions,
    and through the prophets gave parables.
    11 If there is iniquity in Gilead,
    they shall surely come to nothing:
    in Gilgal they sacrifice bulls;
    their altars also are like stone heaps
    on the furrows of the field.
    12 Jacob fled to the land of Aram;
    there Israel served for a wife,
    and for a wife he guarded sheep.
    13 By a prophet the Lord brought Israel up from Egypt,
    and by a prophet he was guarded.
    14 Ephraim has given bitter provocation;
    so his Lord will leave his bloodguilt on him
    and will repay him for his disgraceful deeds.

    1When Ephraim spoke, there was trembling;
    he was exalted in Israel,
    but he incurred guilt through Baal and died.

    2And now they sin more and more,
    and make for themselves metal images,
    idols skillfully made of their silver,
    all of them the work of craftsmen.
    It is said of them,
    “Those who offer human sacrifice kiss calves!”

    [compare with Trumpet 6 where people don't repent of their idols]

    3Therefore they shall be like the morning mist
    or like the dew that goes early away,
    like the chaff that swirls from the threshing floor
    or like smoke from a window.
    4But I am the Lord your God
    from the land of Egypt;
    you know no God but me,
    and besides me there is no savior.
    5 It was I who knew you in the wilderness,
    in the land of drought;
    6 but when they had grazed,a they became full,
    they were filled, and their heart was lifted up;
    therefore they forgot me.

    7 So I am to them like a lion;
    like a leopard I will lurk beside the way.
    8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs;
    I will tear open their breast,
    and there I will devour them like a lion,
    as a wild beast would rip them open.

    lion with eagle wings (1 head) + leopard 4 heads + bear (1 head) + 4th beast (the "wild beast" in verse 8 above) = 7 heads of the dragon

    The bear is Russia/ the "cubs" are Russian satellite countries like... the Ukraine. It will "tear open the chest" = 3 ribs (covering the heart) (remember in Dan 7:4, the eagle's wings are plucked off the lion and "it" is given the "heart of a man") (and the 2 wings are given to the woman at the star sign of Revelation 12 to be able to flee to the wilderness. This is what the "rapture" is - no flying away to heaven - in Exodus 19, the Hebrews were "given the wings of an eagle" to fly to the promised land.

    3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
    4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
    5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
    6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
    When the 10 virgins fly to the wilderness/ soon to be promised land, the 5 foolish virgins becomes Mystery Babylon in Rev 17. The 5 wise virgins have to wait it out in the wilderness until Christ comes. Or rather, the correct Christ comes, since the 5 foolish virgins will think they have found a husband. And since you still have your Satanic Republican elephant logo in your avatar, I will say that I am very concerned about "Republican" Christians level of discernment. (no I am not a Democrat or even an "independent" for that matter) I've said it before, I'll say it again - the upside down stars on the R elephant show their allegiance to Satan... this really is no small matter.

    9He destroysb you, O Israel,
    for you are against me, against your helper.
    10Where now is your king, to save you in all your cities?
    Where are all your rulers—
    those of whom you said,
    “Give me a king and princes”?
    11 I gave you a king in my anger,
    and I took him away in my wrath.

    12The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up;
    his sin is kept in store.
    13The pangs of childbirth come for him,
    but he is an unwise son,
    for at the right time he does not present himself
    at the opening of the womb.

    Here is the star sign of Rev 12, which we know to be at Rosh Hashanah 2017. Zion is supposed to be born Sept. 2017, but he isn't wise enough for that time-frame. Or rather, some are wise enough for Pentecost 2018, but half aren't wise enough and become Mystery Babylon.

    14Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol?
    Shall I redeem them from Death?
    O Death, where are your plagues?
    O Sheol, where is your sting?
    Compassion is hidden from my eyes.
    15Though he may flourish among his brothers,
    the east wind, the wind of the Lord, shall come,
    rising from the wilderness,
    and his fountain shall dry up;
    his spring shall be parched;
    it shall strip his treasury
    of every precious thing.
    16c Samaria shall bear her guilt,
    because she has rebelled against her God;
    they shall fall by the sword;
    their little ones shall be dashed in pieces,
    and their pregnant women ripped open.
  3. PhillipLaSpino

    PhillipLaSpino Achieve; don’t plunder!

    Tranquil, thanks for your comments. I understand Nebuchadnezzar's image of gold, silver down to the feet of iron and clay represent actual kingdoms, they beginning with Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar was given this dream, and Daniel interpreted it, to this I agree.

    Daniel was given the vision by God concerning the four beast. Like I said, I have read all the commentaries concerning these verses in Dan.7 and to be honest, they are all over the board, nobody can seem to agree on any of them, and never will.

    They seem to make more sense when they are made spiritual, as in a spiritual falling away because of idol worship; first by Judea beginning in 670 B.C. the year Mannaseh was conceived to Jesus birth 4 B.C. a period of 666 years, maybe this is the 1st beast of Dan.7?????

    The other three beasts than would represent three periods of time, each, period would represent one 6, and each 6 would represent 666 year, this would take us to the year 2027 A.D. the year Christ sets up his kingdom; 2026 being the year the tribulation ends.

    1. 6 is a world number.

    2. 6 days of creation

    3. 6 thousand years have passed since Adam was cast from the garden.

    4. Three sixes: Divide three into 2000 years we would have 666.666 years.

    5. Balaam in the Greek breaks down to 666, Rev.2:14.

    6. The Latin Kingdom in Hebrew totals 666

    7. From Christ birth 4 B.C. if we go back six 666.666 year periods, it would take us back to the year 4004 B.C. the years J. Usher had chronicaled according to geneologies to be the creation, or the time Adam was cast from the garden, when time as we know it began.

    8. WWW in Hebrew represents 666, World Wide Webb, the language of the computer age.

    9. Hosea said in two days (2000 years) God would revive us (the Jews.) Christ become the Jewish High Priest at the age of 30 in 26 A.D. 2000 years would take us to the year 2026 A.D.

    10. The Dome of the Rock, an abomination that now sits on the land David had purchased for the Lord was finished in 691 A.D. Daniel speaks of 1335 days or years days, so I took 691 + 1335 = 2026 A.D.

    11. Selencus the little horn that came up from one of the 4, the Greek genera/kingl under Alexander consolidated the Greek Empire in 281 B.C. Daniel spoke of 2300 days or years, 281 B.C. + 2019 A.D. would equall the 2300 years Daniel spoke of. This year 2019 A.D. is 7 years before the year 2026 A.D.

    12. In 734 A.D. the Catholic Church made idol worship officially part of their law, and in the same year, the Latin and Greek churches were forever divided. Daniel speaks of 1290 days, or years. 734 + 1290 = 2024 A.D. this would put us smake in the middle of the tribulation if 2019 A.D was the rapture year, and 2026 A.D. was the end of the Tribulation, and 2027 A.D. when Christ begins his 1000 year reign.

    Maybe these are all coincidences, I don't know, but each of these dates represent a major historical event, and each involved the enemies of God, the enemies of the Jews and the land of Israel.

    Again I am not being dogmatic about this, still have a lot of research to do, but I will tell you this, the Catholic Church is up to their necks in blood, and idol worship and I believe they will take the church right into the tribulation.

    Phil LaSpino
  4. Codger

    Codger Regular Member

    Good grief - every simple thing here gets blown up into a complicated "Rube Golberg." Bible prophesy is mostly simple.

    Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up it self on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise devour much flesh.

    1. The bear represents the Medo-Persian kingdom
    2. It had lifted it self up on one side because that represents the Persians as being more dominant. (Cyrus was from Persia)
    3. three ribs represent Lydia, Babylon, and Egypt - the three powers that were conquered by the Medo-Persian Empire
  5. Jon Anon

    Jon Anon Newbie

    Daniel 7:5:

    King James Bible
    And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

    The 3 ribs in the bears mouth(Russian bear) represent 3 years of captivity the United States(Ephraim) will be in captivity before God raises up the two witnesses to lead the people

    This 3 years is also seen in Ezekiel 21:

    25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
    26 Thus saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
    27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

    The wicked prince of Israel is the hidden Israel(united states) and the wicked prince of Israel is the person leading the country at the time the destruction comes.....3 overturns represent 3 years and then Gods chosen ruler(one like moses) will come to lead the people in the time of tribulation....and will be given power to do many miracles to help the people to believe just as it states the two witnesses will have the power to call fire down from the sky and turn the water to blood...etc Revelation11
  6. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

    United States
    Now now, Don't go getting in a huff and posting the Bible's own interpretation of its own prophecies. That is not what this is about. it is about everybody getting to give their baseless opinions is their quest to divine the future. "End times" you know.
  7. PhillipLaSpino

    PhillipLaSpino Achieve; don’t plunder!

    Codger wrote, "Good grief - every simple thing here gets blown up into a complicated "Rube Golberg." Bible prophesy is mostly simple.

    Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up it self on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise devour much flesh.

    1. The bear represents the Medo-Persian kingdom
    2. It had lifted it self up on one side because that represents the Persians as being more dominant. (Cyrus was from Persia)
    3. three ribs represent Lydia, Babylon, and Egypt - the three powers that were conquered by the Medo-Persian Empire __________________

    Phil replies, "Wow, what insight! From what commentary did you quote that from, I have at least 10 that say the same thing? Obviously you're against people who like to think and examine other avenues. And it's obvious you're against anyone that disagrees with your views. I am not saying you're wrong, all I'm saying is, I would like to see if Daniel was possibly speaking of the spiritual, and not the natural.

    Now explain to me, "what is the significance of this bear raising itself up and (standing) on one of its sides? By the way, how does a bear stand on one side? How does a nation stand on one side? Does it mean the Medes and Persians were standing on one foot when it conquered these other three nations?

    How in the world from Scripture have you concluded that the ribs this Persian bear is holding in its mouth are the three nations you mentioned. There are no corresponding verses in Scripture that support this. How and where did anyone get the idea from Scripture that ribs represent nations.

    Daniel said he saw these 4 great beast come from the great sea. The great sea Daniel speaks of is the Mediterranean sea, look it up. Persia has no borders on the Mediterranean, but Israel, Greece, Rome and the Roman Catholic Church do.

    Well anyway, I've always been an inquisitive person, and like to look at every possibility; and after examining the information, take it to some sort of concludion, right or wrong, it's the way I learn.

    I wrote, I was not being dogmatic about my comments, all I would like to do is discuss this with someone who can hold an intelligant conversation and has some imagination.

    One more question, are you disqualifying everything I wrote?

  8. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    Phil, I just want you to know that I appreciate your tone and your intellectual open-mindedness.

    About the bear, I think you make a good observation when you ask about why it "stands/ raised itself up on one side". I would guess that it means that it has its armies amassed against the enemies on one side of it.

    If the bear is Russia, then it amasses its armies on one side (the western/ European side? and not the southern border with the Kazakhstan, Mongolia, and China).

    I'm not into 'spiritualizing' the Dan 7 4 beasts away, just because we haven't been given what these terms mean in scripture. "Bear" doesn't seem to mean anything aside from direct references to kingdoms.

    And there are direct analogs to today's world, so why fix it if it ain't broke..

    The 1st Beast is the standing lion which has a clear reference to the UK. Prince William rides around in a helicopter called the "Sea King" (beast/ king from the sea reference) and has a boat called the "hereford endeavor". Hereford is a species of red cattle - a red heifer, refering to the sacrifice to cleanse the temple (Prince William will be the sacrifice to start the satanic temple). Prince Harry's gematria is 1666 (presumably, Prince Harry will enforce the worship of William who "heroically sacrificed himself for us"). At some point, why can't we just take them at their "word" with the symbology that Satan willingly presents to people?

    The eagle is the US. Since there is only 1 head to the lion with eagle wings, I think there is a good chance that a British politician will rule the US in some capacity. Prince Harry could be this person, possibly in his capacity as "Pope"/ de facto head priest of the Anglican church if he were king.

    For the 3rd Beast, I see Europe splitting into 4 countries, not 10. But that remains to be seen.