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"Be Intolerant"

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Argent

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Has anyone here read the book "Be Intolerant" by Dr. James Dobson's son?

Evidently, he presents excellent arguments why we Christians are to have an attitude of intolerance toward sin and the behavior of the ungodly.

As much as we are called to "hate the sin, but love the sinner", I'm inclined to agree that Christians must become more intolerant of the behavior of the ungodly in American society.
 

CSmrw

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Argent said:
Has anyone here read the book "Be Intolerant" by Dr. James Dobson's son?

Evidently, he presents excellent arguments why we Christians are to have an attitude of intolerance toward sin and the behavior of the ungodly.

As much as we are called to "hate the sin, but love the sinner", I'm inclined to agree that Christians must become more intolerant of the behavior of the ungodly in American society.

Good luck with that. You will want to be staying away from my house and family. My intolerance is not pretty.
 
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loriersea

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I have seen this book and consider it reprehensible, but I also have great sympathy for its author. If he was raised according to the childcare practices of Dr. Dobson (which include not only hitting your kids for not obeying, but hitting them when they obey you with a spirit that isn't sufficiently submissive), then I imagine he has had very little grace, compassion, or love modelled for him. I hope that he can move beyond that.

As to the specific content of the book, I'm very curious as to what exactly it means to "be intolerant." What exactly does intolerance look like, in practice?

For example, I assume that Dobson Jr. believes that Christians should be intolerant toward homosexuality. Well, what does that mean? Does it mean spending millions of dollars on campaigns to make sure discrimination against gay and lesbian people is illegal? Does it mean trying to get sodomy laws back on the books and then turning in any neighbors you think are gay? Does it mean ostracizing gays in your neighborhood? Throwing rocks through their windows? Burning down their homes? Killing them? What exactly does intolerance look like, in practice, and is a society that values intolerance really a society we want to live in?

I think that the implications of those kinds of stances are potentially very dangerous. There are plenty of things that I, personally, find morally wrong. I think adultery is morally wrong, in most cases I think divorce is morally wrong, and I think that spanking children is morally wrong, all from a Christian perspective. Heck, I think the the Dobsons' brand of Christianity is morally wrong, but what would it mean for me to be intolerant of it?

However, what would it mean for me to be intolerant of these things? Should I try to get adultery made illegal? Should I try to pass laws making discrimination against adulterers legal? Should I shun and verbally or physically attack known adulterers?

Should I try to pass laws making divorce illegal, or shun divorced people?

Should I report parents I know spank their kids to the authorities as abusive? Should I refuse to associate with any person who spanks their kids? Should I devote lots of time and money to trying to make spanking illegal, so that nobody can do it since I think it's wrong? Should I burn any books that promote spanking and ask libraries to remove them from the shelves?

And, what should I do about the Dobsons? Should I try to have their views declared illegal? Should I lobby to make discrimination against people who hold the views they hold legal?

I do not believe I should do any of those things, and I don't. I have friends who spank their kids, and they are aware that I don't spank and that I don't think it's a very good discipline method, but that's it. I don't lecture to them, and I don't chastize them. If they see that my child is kind and compassionate and well-behaved without being spanked and rethink their discipline method, then that's wonderful, but I realize that, while I don't agree with what they do, there is no real evidence that spanking causes long-term or serious harm to a child, and so I have no desire to NOT tolerate their right to discipline their child as they see fit. I am vehemently opposed to the ideas promoted by the Dobsons, but I would NEVER try to get their books censored or wish to see them discriminated against or not allowed to air their views, and I would oppose any attempt to do so. In short, despite the fact that I believe their views are potentially damaging, I am tolerant of the Dobsons.

Now, obviously tolerance, like most other virtues, has limits. Just because something is good doesn't mean it's an unlimited good. Patience is good, but if Rosa Parks had just been endlessly patient, the Montgomery bus boycott would never have started. But, that doesn't mean that I promote impatience or would tell people "be impatient." Clearly, there are situations where tolerance is the wrong response. If Dobson were to begin calling for the mass killing of gay and lesbian people, and actually inciting people to do so, then obviously as a civilized society we would have to take action, and no longer tolerate his statements. What does that mean? I'm not sure, honestly.

But, for the most part, the "intolerance" that these kinds of extreme right-wing Christians call for is very undefined. What exactly does intolerance mean? If you ask many people who think intolerance toward homosexuality is a good thing how they would treat a gay or lesbian neighbor, they'd say that they'd treat that neighbor with the same common courtesy that they treated anyone else. That is simply NOT intolerance, so I'm not exactly sure how they'd define tolerance or intolerance.
 
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Lynden1000

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Argent said:
Has anyone here read the book "Be Intolerant" by Dr. James Dobson's son?

Evidently, he presents excellent arguments why we Christians are to have an attitude of intolerance toward sin and the behavior of the ungodly.

As much as we are called to "hate the sin, but love the sinner", I'm inclined to agree that Christians must become more intolerant of the behavior of the ungodly in American society.

You're well within your rights to be intolerant of non-Christians, just as we non-Christians are well within our rights to be intolerant of *you.* "Holiday Trees" anyone?
 
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momalle1

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loriersea has excellent points. Just as every right-winger likes to make gun laws look like the path to having no guns, what path is this headed towards?

Actually, I thought "be intolerant" was going to be the next right-wing campaign slogan, I know some of you are already placing orders for custom bumper stickers.
 
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luvmyhubby

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Argent said:
Has anyone here read the book "Be Intolerant" by Dr. James Dobson's son?

Evidently, he presents excellent arguments why we Christians are to have an attitude of intolerance toward sin and the behavior of the ungodly.

As much as we are called to "hate the sin, but love the sinner", I'm inclined to agree that Christians must become more intolerant of the behavior of the ungodly in American society.

Umm - so what do you see as the difference between being intolerant of sin and hating the sin but loving the sinner. I haven't read the book, but if you are quoting Dobson Jr. right is he not saying that we should be intolerant of the sin (NOT the sinner)? We don't have to be intolerant of the person commiting what we see as sin (and what is sin to me may not be to you). I think being intolerant of the sin means not participating in it ourselves or provoking it. It means separating ourselves from the sinful behavior. It means following Christ's commandments to love one another as Christ as loved us and to love our neighbor as ourselves. it means acting in a charitable, responsible loving way no matter who we are around. It means showing Christ's love, but not condoning the actions that go against that love. Seems to me there is no difference between being intolerant of sin and hating the sin. We all sin. Only Christ was free from that burden. And there is no degree to sin. Stealing a paper clip is still stealing. Morally it may not be as bad as robbing a bank, but in God's eyes it is still stealing. What about removing the log from our own eye before we go trying to pluck the splinter out of someone else's? I don't think we are called to judge others. I think if we would focus more on Christ's commandments than on what everyone else is doing we would be much happier as individuals. And happier individuals will make for a happier society. I also think there are going to be a heck of a lot of surprises when we get to heaven and find out who's "right" and who's "wrong" in some of the issues that we get so bent out of shape about.
 
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momalle1

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jgarden said:
Armed with the 2nd Ammendment, Americans don't have to be "tolerant" of anything or anybody. The "Right to Bear Arms" seems to be a God-given gift - at least in this forum. :bow:

The right to bear arms IS in the constitution and should be respected as much as anything else in it. I don't see where the 2nd ammendment gives anyone the right of intolerance though.
 
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CSmrw

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The first amendment gives us the right to be intolerant. We can hate anything, anyone, anytime and anywhere we want. But we can't act on that hate so as to impose our will on anyone else. Which is why people railing about how it's perfectly fine to be intolerant slay me. Do it. Have a ball. Get yer ya ya's out. Who cares? Bring it with force of action, though and discover the problem inherrant with intolerance. Namely MY intolerance combined with the right to protect myself and live as an equal citizen under the constitution.
 
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Argent

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Lynden1000 said:
You're well within your rights to be intolerant of non-Christians, just as we non-Christians are well within our rights to be intolerant of *you.* "Holiday Trees" anyone?

LOL! Holiday Trees! I always thought it was funny that athiests try to celebrate a Christian holiday without calling it Chrisitian. Just confirms my belief that every athiest is actually seeking God, as God intended all of His creation to do. They just don't know they are.:amen: :thumbsup:
 
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Argent

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CSmrw said:
The first amendment gives us the right to be intolerant. We can hate anything, anyone, anytime and anywhere we want. But we can't act on that hate so as to impose our will on anyone else. Which is why people railing about how it's perfectly fine to be intolerant slay me. Do it. Have a ball. Get yer ya ya's out. Who cares? Bring it with force of action, though and discover the problem inherrant with intolerance. Namely MY intolerance combined with the right to protect myself and live as an equal citizen under the constitution.

LOL!! What you don't understand is that there are more of us. We have more guns, and they're bigger than yours!;)
 
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CSmrw

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Argent said:
LOL!! What you don't understand is that there are more of us. We have more guns, and they're bigger than yours!;)

So you think if you start shooting "the people" and not the 20% who actually think the way YOU do will be joining in? Again I say good luck with that. I will happily take my chances. And if you are right then the world is not particularly worth staying alive for anyway.
 
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ImmortalTechnique

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Argent said:
LOL! Holiday Trees! I always thought it was funny that athiests try to celebrate a Christian holiday without calling it Chrisitian. Just confirms my belief that every athiest is actually seeking God, as God intended all of His creation to do. They just don't know they are.:amen: :thumbsup:


actually, most of the "christian" celebration is actually from the Roman celebration of Saturnalia. Just confirms my belief that every Christian is actually seeking Saturn, just as the Gods intended. Celebrating the resurrection of a resurrected savior god at the Winter solsitice isn't a christian holiday
 
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DailyBlessings

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ImmortalTechnique said:
actually, most of the "christian" celebration is actually from the Roman celebration of Saturnalia. Just confirms my belief that every Christian is actually seeking Saturn, just as the Gods intended. Celebrating the resurrection of a resurrected savior god at the Winter solsitice isn't a christian holiday
This is such a silly argument, given that the Christian festival predates its movement to coincide with Saturnalia. Some branches of the Orthodox church still use the the other date.
 
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Nienor

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I read the book, my dad gave it to me. But it was a long time ago, so I don't remember much. If I remember correctly, the entire name is "Be Intolerant, because Some Things are Just Stupid"

I want to begin by saying that I have a great dislike for Focus on the Family and it's ministry. I didn't agree with a lot of stuff in the book. But there is a point, because I know there are things I am intolerant of. Murder for one, hate crimes and child abuse for some others.

However I "tolerate" a lot of things that Dobson thinks I shouldn't :p
 
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Illuminatus

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Argent said:
LOL! Holiday Trees! I always thought it was funny that athiests try to celebrate a Christian holiday without calling it Chrisitian. Just confirms my belief that every athiest is actually seeking God, as God intended all of His creation to do. They just don't know they are.:amen: :thumbsup:

Yeah, okay. We're just happy to enjoy our pagan festivals at your expense.
 
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Lynden1000

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Argent said:
LOL! Holiday Trees! I always thought it was funny that athiests try to celebrate a Christian holiday without calling it Chrisitian. Just confirms my belief that every athiest is actually seeking God, as God intended all of His creation to do. They just don't know they are.:amen: :thumbsup:

I don't celebrate Christmas, so you'd be incorrect :sorry:
 
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Lynden1000

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Argent said:
LOL! Holiday Trees! I always thought it was funny that athiests try to celebrate a Christian holiday without calling it Chrisitian. Just confirms my belief that every athiest is actually seeking God, as God intended all of His creation to do. They just don't know they are.:amen: :thumbsup:

I don't celebrate Christmas at all, so you'd be incorrect. :sorry:
 
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