• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Basic NT stuff : is the real stuff

Discussion in 'Covenant Theology' started by Behold, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    What are the basics of Christianity, that we are to learn. ?????
    Well, Hebrews 13:9 is the Key verse in the entire NT, that you are to thoroughly ingrain into the mentality and the spirituality of anyone who is a new believer, that God gives you to train, so that the cults dont get them and ruin them for life before they even get out of their Gospel cradle.
    So, to teach it, you have TO BE IT. There is no other way...
    That verse tells you to "establish your heart with Grace".... This is the mandated Pauline Theology, info, that Jesus Gave to Paul to give to the Body, that Paul alone originally delivered as what real believers understand as "the gospel of the Grace of God". , "The preaching of the cross", "justification by faith", "the free gift of Salvation".."the gift of Righteousness", "the imputed righteousness of Christ", "faith is counted as righteousness".
    Do, you see all that?
    Its all the same thing. Its all identical. Its Hebrews 13:9. Its the Blood Atonement as a VERSE. And you are to become one with that like its your NAME so that the cults and the liars and the bible twisters, and the zealot religious self savers, and the Grace haters, are not able to mentally trap you into their theological clutches and ruin not just your faith, but ruin any chance that God will ever actually use you in "real life", all your lifetime.

    I kid you not. That verse, tells you how to start your Theological Journey, as it tells you that if you dont get so deeply grounded in the GRACE OF GOD as your firm theological foundation, early on, then you will be sucked into the void of every self saving heretic's trickery and their denomination,... and all your life you'll think that the Grace of God as taught by Paul, is a "license to sin". You'll actually end up at odds, in direct theological opposition to the finished work of Jesus, and will come to very much detest any idea that Christ keeps you saved without your SELF EFFORT.
    So, that verse,....Its the main rudder that will keep your Gospel ship on the right Ocean and out of the crashing waves of heresy.
    Really. !

    Now let me explain Salvation in a way that someone who is simple like me, can get it, and then be able to teach it in Sunday School to a group of 12 yr olds who are just getting into being the "age of accountability" and need to get saved.

    Here we go..

    Man has a problem. And his universal problem is that because of the nature of Adam, which is fallen and has ultimately disconnected humanity from the Spirit of God, = We have NO Righteousness.
    NONE..... ZERO.
    This can be defined as "born into sin". So, this sinful state that we find ourselves in, under the law, judged as "SINNER" by the law and commandments, reveals us to be UNRIGHTEOUS. = SINNERS, every one of us.
    And so, thats a real issue, as we are going to die eventually, and as Heaven is only the home of the Righteous, and as we have none, then we dont get to stay there if we die, unrighteous.
    So....Then.....GOD......... steps in, to resolves our unrighteousness by = Giving US HIS.
    This IS Salvation.

    How does He do it?
    Well, He created himself a human body inside a Virgin's womb. God literally wrapped Himself in human FLESH, and this Flesh is birthed as Jesus THE Christ or "God with us".. "Emmanuel".
    Next Sunday, this same JESUS, will be recognized around the world, potentially even more so, then perhaps since WWII, as right now, right outside your window is a Virus spreading that has created such a panic in this world, that these same are going to be finding that Blessed CROSS as their own Redemption in such a Harvest of Souls in the next month, as has not been recorded, possibly, since the Cross was raised.
    Amen.
    That is the timing of God. He is bringing the Cross to take the harvest, that is being pushed to Him right now, by this worldwide Panic Attack.

    God didn't cause the Virus, but He is using it to bring the Cross to save this World in an unprecedented way, in about a week. Some of you remember when "The Passion of the Christ" came out, and the impact this movie achieved Globally for quite a while. Well, this harvest of Souls will be more intense and so very needed, as this world has become so spiritually darkened and so very Lost that it is truly crying out its need for the Blood of Jesus.

    So, as i was saying... God became a man to resolve our problem of unrighteousness that is keeping us from being a part of His Family.
    The solution, was for God to live a holy life as a manifested man, which fulfilled the law and would release US from the Law and allow us to have... "you are no longer under the law, but are under GRACE" as our new Law, WHEN we are born again. And so, to solve our sin issue, and to give us His righteousness, God as Christ did live a sinless life. And God shed the Blood of this Sinless Life on The Cross, so that by this Sacrifice, we could become the very "righteousness of Christ", by only doing what God said to do, .. just one thing..... so that He could give us this "gift of Righteousness" that we can't earn.

    God said....>If you will give me your Faith In Christ, i will give you the Righteousness of Christ, and this Righteousness will become YOU.
    You will become a "New birth", a "born again" spirit, and the Spirit that you become, is a HOLY Part of Me and my Son. You will become "ONE" with Me and Jesus, forever.
    The Righteousness of Christ that i will GIVE YOU for FREE, for your FAITH, as "the Gift of Righteousness", will be your Eternal Identity. It will be "Christ in you" , reborn, as a "new Creation In Christ".
    This is MY Salvation, saith God, and all who come to Jesus by Faith, will become the Righteousness of Jesus, because "the Gift of Righteousness" that I God impart to you, will BECOME YOU for all ETERNITY. = Born Again.
    You will become a "Son fo God" - A SAINT - A BRIDE -and part of the Body of Christ because you have been redeemed from your sin and restored by my Righteousness, = INTO My very Righteousness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    If you skip back a chapter and you will read this:

    "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).​

    You gotta do two things here in order to see the Lord.

    #1. Follow peace with all men.
    #2. Follow [after] holiness​

    Hebrews 10 says,

    26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:26-29).​

    Also, Hebrews 5 says,

    8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:8-9).​

    Paul says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God - 2 Corinthians 7:1; Why fear God if you got a guaranteed ticket to Heaven by an acknowledge of a set of facts alone? Even the demons believe and tremble - James 2:19.) (Sure, we need to have faith in God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ; No doubt about it. God's grace through faith in Christ and seeking His mercy is how we are initially and ultimately saved (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, Titus 3:5, Romans 10:13, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 1 John 2:1-2, 1 John 1:9, Luke 18:9-14), but His grace is not a safety net to sin in some way. Meaning, certain sins can cause a loss of salvation. Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). The apostle John said that the one who does not righteousness and does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10). He also says that the one who hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15). Paul lists certain sins and says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). Inherit the Kingdom is in reference to salvation because Matthew 25:34 says that the righteous (i.e. the sheep) are told by the King, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

    For a more fuller comprehensive picture of salvation check out this thread here:

    The Four Aspects of Salvation.

    May God bless you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Also, you act like most professing Sola Scriptura type bible believing churches teach a form of holiness or Sanctification as a part of the salvation process (after one is saved by God's grace). This is simply not true. I really wish such were true. For I cannot find a church that teaches a healthy balance of both God's grace, and Sanctification as a part of salvation near me (and I lived in several places). The Church of Christ by-passes God's grace, and they don't talk about inviting people to accept Christ and or His grace at all. So they are wrong for doing this and they are in serious error. We cannot be initially and ultimately by "do, do, do." A person's works cannot erase their own sin. God's grace is the only thing that cleanses us. If we confess our sins, He (Christ) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). Other so called holiness churches are in the minority and they really do not focus on any real holy living and they look and act more like the world, then what we read about in the early church believers in the New Testament.

    Christ's Sanctified Holiness Church is the only church that agrees with my understanding on salvation in the Bible. They only exist on the Eastern seaboard and I was excited to visit them, until I found out that they deny the bodily resurrection (Which is a violation of 1 Corinthians 15).

    My point here is that we are in a spiritual wasteland. I believe 2 Timothy 3:1-9 speaks of our time today. It says that in the last times perilous times will come and men shall be lovers of their own selves and they will have a form of godliness, but they will deny the power thereof.

    I believe the power they deny thereof is the ability that God can give to them to overcome grievous sin (i.e. those sins that the Bible clearly condemns with warnings of hellfire or spiritual death, like: lying, lusting, hating, coveting, etc.) in this life. For Galatians 5:24 says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says that as Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same mind (or thinking), for the person who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin; The reason for this is that this person is to not live to the lusts of the flesh the rest of their time on earth, but to the will of God. Jesus said to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11).

    Most today think you cannot overcome grievous sin.

    Yet, the apostle Paul says,

    “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13).

    David says, “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalms 119:11).
     
  4. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,426
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    Thank you for this refreshing post.
     
  5. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    Do you realize you are teaching legalism?
    Also, if you complete #1 and #2, if you do those works you listed.... and you are not born again, you will go to hell after you die, and The lake of fire after Hell, as those works as well as none that you can ever do......all that you can list, = NONE can redeem you from your sin.

    Its interesting that a Legalist, is always trying to prove that what you do, is your SELF redemption, while rejecting that Christ's Blood alone, is the only redemption.
    Thats the devil's theology.

    Also,
    Your Hebrew's analysis is not related to the truth of the Blood Atonement.
    If you will take the time to read those Hebrew verses again, you'll see that #1, this epistle is not written to the Church, the Body, or the Christian @ any Church listed by name, such as Galatia.
    Its written to Hebrews, specifically, who are not saved,...... yet,.... it contains much that is Church Doctrine in later chapters..
    So, when you read in Hebrews 4, 6, or 10, you see the Apostle Paul is preaching the Gospel strongly to a group of Hebrews... These are unsaved JEWS.....(Thats a HEBREW.)
    So, then you ask yourself...."why would Paul be preaching the GOSPEL to a group that is already BORN AGAIN". ????
    And then you will begin to realize THAT......then the error of 1000 deceived commentators who live to try to deceive you into believing that God was lying when He had Paul write this verse. Philippians 1:6. ... then all will become very very clear to you, reader.

    Now, if you do lay down your commentaries and pick up a bible today, then i want you to turn to Acts 28, and i'll show you what all liars and heretics will never show you , that they dont know, that proves that those verses in Hebrew that talk about willfully sinning and trodding under foot the Son of God, are not talking to or about a born again Christian...
    And before i show you, i want to explain to any reader here who is not familiar with how to "rightly divide the word"...... The way you do this, is by "comparing scripture with scripture" to get the context. And if you dont.. If you just randomly yank Hebrews into a pretext........
    So, here are the other verses you have to use to get the right CONTEXT of all those Hebrew verses that liars use to make you think that Philippians 1:6 is just not ......true.

    Acts 28:
    25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

    26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

    27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

    Notice that This same Apostle who was preaching the GOSPEL strongly, trying to get those Hebrew to NOT REJECT THEIR MESSIAH, is now telling another Christ Rejecting Group of Hebrews that ......"times up...... God is going to the Gentiles".

    So, all THAT, is the context of those continually twisted Hebrew verses" that you quoted.
     
  6. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    There is no "part II" to the Cross.
    Salvation is not ... The Cross, + My Works after im saved....keeps me saved.
    There is no keeping yourself saved, anymore then there is saving yourself to begin with....

    What saves a person is Blood that is shed by God as the sacrifice for sin on The Cross. And this sacrifice , "once and for all", resolved the sin issue, if you are born again.
    God, as Jesus on the Cross, bore and BECAME your sin, and also the entire world's sin, and this is Redemption FROM SIN, and forgiveness sustained, because Christ was Judged for them ALL.

    """well then, if Jesus has paid for the sin of the world, then why isn't everyone born again and saved""".
    = Because Redemption has to be APPLIED, thru Faith.
    So, until each person hears the gospel and turns to The cross receiving Christ as redeemer, then God does not apply it..
    Salvation is the righteousness of God being APPLIED only when you Give God your Faith.
    "Justification by FAITH"...
    God takes your faith, and accepts it, (Faith is Counted as Righteousness) and then GOD GIVES YOU the "gift of righteousness" that is eternal LIFE.
     
  7. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    Thank you for taking the time to read it.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Notice how you did not address any of the verses I posted. This shows that you are not accepting the whole counsel of God's Word but you are only selecting those verses in Scripture that you want to see from your own slanted view.

    "for I did not hold back from declaring to you the whole counsel of God." (Acts of the Apostles 20:27) (NHEB).​

    Friend: For if I am wrong, then you need to go back and explain at least some of the verses I put forth to you. You mentioned Hebrews, and so I picked out verses in Hebrews that refutes your line of thinking here.

    In any event, may God bless you, and may you please be safe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Right, I believe Romans 3:25 that says, "Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,..."

    So I believe that having faith in Christ's blood saves me. This is a part of God's grace and it is how we are initially and ultimately saved. No doubt about it.

    But what you fail to understand or refuse to see is that 1 John 1:7 says that, "if we walk in the light... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

    What is walking in the light mean?

    1 John 2:9-11 by the use of indirect words tells us that:

    Walking in the light = Loving your brother.

    This means that we have to "love our brother" as a part of "the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing us from all sin."

    This is confirmed even more when you read 1 John 3.

    1 John 3:10 says that the person who does not righteousness or who does not love his brother is NOT OF GOD.

    1 John 3:15 says that whoever hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

    Can a believer hate their brother by their actions or deeds or a lack thereof when they are in a time of need?

    Most definitely.
    So yes. We do need works, otherwise our faith is dead (James 2:17).

    I do hope that you will be able to address or explain some of these verses.

    Anyways, may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be unto you today.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  10. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    Are you wrong to contradict Grace with Legalism? Oh Yeah.

    So, you avoid addressing what i showed you about some of your verses, because you need me to respond to other things you wrote?

    Well, let me ask you these 2 Questions.

    1.) If you were to die in the next 2 mins, and you knew it was coming.....what are you trusting to get you to heaven ?

    2. ) What are you trusting in, to keep you saved?





    B
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You imagine something that does not exist in the Bible.
    To believe in Jesus is a commandment.

    "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23) (AKJV).​

    Surely you must believe in Jesus for salvation. If so, then you are obeying a commandment of God (Which is a form of legalism).

    Even Revelation ends with saying this:

    "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).

    You talked about Hebrews as your defense for your belief. I brought up verses like Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 12:14, and Hebrews 10:26 that refutes your belief here. The ball is in your court.

    Just explain Hebrews 12:14 if you can.
    My guess is that you cannot explain how that verse works in your belief.

    First, I will not answer personal questions in regards to my own salvation (so as to not cause heated debates, eventual possible insults, etc.) but I will answer the question from a third person perspective (Note: See my following paragraph).

    Second, not all situations apply to the same people. Jesus essentially says to whom much is given, much is required (See: Luke 12:48). A baby that dies (in a mother's womb) does not even need to have faith in Jesus to be saved. A man who dies on his deathbed and just hears about Jesus from a preacher, can be saved solely by God's grace. A believer who has lived out their faith over a long period of time is required to study God's Word to show themselves approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). So if a believer who lives out their faith and they justify sin, and they had plenty of time to study to show themselves approved unto God and they did not do so, and they are about to die in 2 minutes, they are not going to make it. They will be cast into outer darkness. A believer who lives out their faith needs to accept God's grace, AND they need to live a holy life by the power of God. So if a believer trusted God's grace, and they lived holy unto the Lord by God's power working in them, and they were about to die in two minutes, they would be saved. For they would be truly trusting in God's Word on those grace verses, and they would be truly trusting God's Word on those Sanctification verses in regards to salvation (by obeying them).

    Remember, Hebrews 12:14 says for us to follow after holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. Oh, and we have to also follow after peace with all men, without which no man shall see the Lord, too. Two things are mentioned there as requirements as a part of seeing the Lord.

    What is a believer trusting to keep them saved? It should be God's Word and Jesus (i.e. "the communicated Word" (Scripture), and "the Living Word."). The Lord's words for New Covenant believers is the New Testament Scriptures, and they need to trust and obey those grace verses for salvation, and they need to trust and obey those verses on Sanctification that talk about salvation. Salvation is not in Works Alone anymore than salvation is in having a belief alone. A believer in Jesus Christ needs a healthy balance of both God's grace and Sanctification (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:24, John 5:24).
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    @Behold

    Your very username "Behold" speaks as a warning to us believers in Scripture.

    12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie."
    (Revelation 22:12-15).

    "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:22).
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." (Revelation 22:12) (AKJV).

    "And shall come forth; they that have done good, to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29) (AKJV).
     
  14. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    Ive never written that to "believe in Jesus is a commandment" on any Forum, or taught it in any church or written it it any book.
    You are making something up, and i would prefer that you be honest instead.
    Does God however command you to do it? Certainly.

    We have an ORDER from God, that says this.. "The work of God is that YOU believe on the ONE (Jesus) whom God SENT".
    So, while that is not an OT commandment, its also not a polite NT Request.
    And anyone who has not BELIEVED ON, by FAITH, the Lord Jesus, as God demands in that verse, is under the wrath of God until they do.... John 3:36.
    And Jesus reiterates that until you do that WORK, that God demands, "you will die in your sin".. John 8:24
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    First, I do not believe the 613 laws as a whole in the Old Testament Law are binding for the believer as a covenant or package deal. While certain laws may have been repeated into the New Testament or New Covenant (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.), Laws like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etc. are no longer binding upon the life of the believer anymore. While Christ was under the Old Covenant during His Earthly ministry, I believe Jesus primarily taught New Covenant teachings and not Old Covenant teachings. The New Covenant officially began when Christ died upon the cross. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers and we do not look back to the Law of Moses. For no man can be justified by the Law of Moses (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

    Second, I was not stating what you were doing. I was stating your failure to recognize 1 John 3:23 in what it plainly says in the Bible. You now just said,

    "I've never written that to "believe in Jesus is a commandment"
    on any Forum, or taught it in any church or written it it any book."

    By: ~ Behold.
    The problem with this kind of statement is that if you did not ever teach such a thing, then you would not be in agreement with what God's Word (the Bible) plainly says here:

    "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23) (AKJV)."​

    I did not write 1 John 3:23. So no. I am not making it up that to believe in Jesus is a commandment or Law. You said this:

    "Are you wrong to contradict Grace with Legalism?
    Oh Yeah."
    By: ~ Behold.

    But 1 John 3:23 tells us that it is a Command to believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ (Which is grace and salvation). Commandments are Laws. When you are dealing with Laws it falls into the realm of dealing with some form of legalism or rules. God's people are not lawless. Yes, in this particular instance in 1 John 3:23, God's grace is accessed by the Law of Faith. Yes, we are commanded (by God's law) to believe in Jesus (Which is grace). So God has a grace command or Law for men today. So Laws in and of themselves are not bad in relation to salvation as you think. It's when men think they can be saved without God's grace and or when men try to save themselves by a system of man made Works Alone Salvationism that leads to problems. Paul dealt with the heresy of men thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Circumcision is of the Old Law. So Paul was against men going back to the Old Law to be saved and in trying to be saved by "Law Alone Salvationism" without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

    Now you are making a contradictory statement of what you just said before.

    "I've never written that to "believe in Jesus is a commandment"
    on any Forum, or taught it in any church or written it it any book."

    By: ~ Behold.​

    This means that you appear initially disagree with how believing in Jesus is a commandment. But now appear to agree with 1 John 3:23 in that it says that to believe in Jesus is a commandment. This means that grace and law (commandment) are connected. This means salvation is not exactly what you stated before when you said this:

    "Are you wrong to contradict Grace with Legalism?
    Oh Yeah."
    By: ~ Behold.

    Then you are making a case for how the work of God deals with salvation.
    So not all works are bad in relation to salvation.

    Note: This is the scene where the crowd (Which were fed by the miracles of the loaves and fishes) tracked down Jesus:

    28 "Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    29 Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent." (John 6:28-29).​

    Shortly we later learn that many of Christ's disciples had stopped following Him. Did these disciples believe in Jesus?
    (See: John 6:64-66).

    I sure hope that you say... "no." But what is important here is that a belief alone in Jesus did not save them. They needed to still FOLLOW Jesus in order to truly continue to believe in Him. Many today want to believe in Jesus as their Savior, but they do not want to follow Him. They do not think that following Him is a salvation issue. But we learn that there were disciples of Jesus who stopped following Jesus. Surely these disciples did not believe in Him. Hence, why they stopped following Him.
    But the 11 disciples kept following Jesus because He had the words of everlasting life.

    Also, believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus as one's Savior, but it is also believing in everything He taught, said, and did, too.

    "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
    (Luke 6:46).​

    Many in the Eternal Security belief love to quote Romans 3:23. But what they fail to understand is that there is another 3:23 that they are ignoring in their Bible. It's Acts of the Apostles 3:23. It says:

    "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
    (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).​

    Who is that prophet they are not going to hear (obey) whereby they will be destroyed?

    Jesus.

    Jesus even said in John 12:48 that His words can judge us on the last day.

    "He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).​

    Yes, believers need to believe in Jesus to be saved. That's God's grace. No doubt about it. But we also need holiness, too. For without holiness no man shall see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).

    Works salvation. Well said. I agree that we have to believe that Jesus is the great "I AM." He is GOD. He is our Savior. No doubt about it. Anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the "I AM" or God and that He is our Savior is not going to make it. But we also know that faith without works is dead, too (See: James 2:17). For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).
     
  16. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    Actually the problem is not what i said, but its with your bible version and your interpretation.
    Here is all you have to know..
    There are " commandments", like the 10, and then when Jesus says..>"new commmandMENTS".

    And then there are commands...

    What your bible version neglected to show you, and what you have not understood, is that when i said "there are no COMMANDMENTS", that is in fact, the reality.
    There are no COMMANDMENTS, given by Moses or by Jesus that tell you to believe in Christ.
    But there is a command..
    This command is also described as the "WORK of God"....."that you believe on Jesus, whom i send". John 6:29.
    So, a command of Jesus and a work can be the same, but a command is not a COMMANDMENT.
    Understand?
    As i said..

    So, take my advice.
    Find something better to do then try to play a game of "gotcha" on a Christian forum.
    Save that stuff for FB, or Twitter, or similar.

    thx,


    B
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    No. I don't. It is pretty desperate and ridiculous to say that a command is not a commandment. They are logically the same thing. But even if you did not believe me, the Bible says they are the same thing.

    "For this commandment which I command thee this day,
    it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off."
    (Deuteronomy 30:11).​

    What is even more silly is that 1 John 3:23 mentions the word "commandment" (Which is the word that you appear to dislike).

    Jesus says that He has given us a new commandment to love one another (the brethren) in the way that He loved them (See: John 13:34).

    "Now we command you, brethren,
    in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    that ye withdraw yourselves from every
    brother that walketh disorderly,
    and not after the tradition which he received of us."
    (2 Thessalonians 3:6).​

    What is a brother that walks disorderly in your view?
    Do you actually withdraw from such brethren who do so?

    "Know ye not that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?"
    (1 Corinthians 5:6).
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  18. Behold

    Behold Active Member

    481
    +154
    Israel
    Christian
    Married
    I appreciate that you feel that you need to be right.
    But, its better to be True.
    So, if you want to pretend that a bad bible version verse that misrepresents a scripture which talks about a "command", is the same thing as the 10 commandments or Mosaic Law, then, help yourself.
    You dont want to listen, you just want to hear yourself talk.
    I dont really have time for that, BH.


    B
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Nowhere did I say that the 10 commandments or the 613 Laws of Moses are in effect. I believe the Old Law (the 613 Old Testament Laws - of the Law of Moses) as a "PACKAGE DEAL" or as a "CONTRACT" (Sort of like a contract in buying a house) is no more.

    Let me repeat that just in case it has not sunk in.

    The Old Law as a package deal or as a contract is no more.

    Shortened Version:

    The Old Law is no more.
    We look to the New Law or the New Testament to obey God, and we do not look to the Old Testament to obey God.
    This means:

    • No more Sabbath keeping.
    • No more keeping of holy days of the OT.
    • No more dietary laws (clean and unclean foods).
    • No more animal sacrifices.
    • No more circumcision.
    • No more stoning.
    • No more priestly laws.

    The Old Testament Covenant has ended (including it's laws). So please, don't say that I follow the 10 commandments. I am far from being a Sabbatarian. I believe the Saturday Sabbath is no longer in effect under the New Covenant or New Testament.

    For example: If you bought a house, they would draw up a contract, but if you did not like the contract, and you asked to make some changes, and they agreed to the changes, you would go by the new contract and discard the old contract. This does not mean that there are not some things from the old contract that have not been repeated in the new contract or remained unchanged. You are just going by the new contract now.

    I believe 9 out of the 10 commandments are in effect because both Jesus and His followers repeated 9 out of the 10. The Saturday Sabbath command is no longer binding. We do not look back to the 613 Laws of Moses to obey God but we look to the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. Yes, Jesus was under the Old Covenant before the cross, but Jesus primarily taught New Covenant and not Old Covenant.

    Basically, when you look at the New Testament, it is technically called, the New Contract, or New Covenant. We are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers.

    Many believers today are on an unbiblical path. Some want to justify sin, and others want to justify boasting in the Old Law, and some want to boast in following a voice in their head or some near death experience, etc. So many wide gate paths a person can choose to follow today. But the only narrow way of escape is to simply believe EVERY word of God as it is written. Men today should not try to change what God's Word says because they don't like it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,031
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    As for your reference that I use a bad translation:

    Well, many Baptists (here in the States) who believe in Once Saved Always Saved hold to the view that the King James Bible is the perfect Word of God. So you need not fear this position or belief.

    47 translators worked on the King James. Two groups of men who did not like each other had to work together in order to make this translation work.



    You can rent it here (if you are interested):
    Amazon.com: Watch Kjb - The Book That Changed The World | Prime Video

    Well, while I may sometimes quote Modern Translations for clarity, my final word of authority is the King James Bible, and I prefer to quote that version whenever possible.

    While Modern Translations can be helpful in updating the 1600's English in the KJV (or King James Version), they are based off the corrupt line of manuscripts (the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus) which occultists Westcott and Hort had based their New Testament Greek translation upon (Which is where most of your Modern Translations are derived from).

    How can we be certain there is a problem in Modern Translations?

    If you were to do a side by side comparison of the KJV vs. Modern Translations, you would see a watering down of:

    • Trinity.
    • Deity of Christ.
    • The Incarnation.
    • Blood Atonement.
    • Holy living.

    You will even see the devil's name put in the place for our Lord's name, and other places (where they do not belong).

    If you want to be informed on the matter, I created a thread on why I believe the King James Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God.

    Reasons why I believe the KJV is the divinely inspired perfect Word of God.
     
Loading...