Baptist Schism: What Do You Guys Think

[Vambram]

Wow, that sounds confusing. So many conventions. But, it does sound like if a church goes against the SBC, it can still remain Baptist, but it will be cut off from funding or resources from the SBC cooperative. The BFM 1963 sounds like a good thing, and at least it is not super woke.

We are truly in a middle of spiritual warfare right now, with even the Catholic church getting infected with strange doctrines, such as the Pope violating John 14:6. Semper Reformada is a good idea (such as evolving with the languages of the modern times, and technology), and the Catholics did that with Vatican 2. I do dread Vatican 3, if that ever becomes a thing, cos imagine if the Catholic church goes full woke.

I do not know, but doesn't it seem that we are getting closer to the End Days with even the Catholic church starting to go this liberal route? Yes, this stuff has been going on for centuries, but it seems to be getting worse again.

When it comes to Baptist Churches, please remember that the SBC is not the only large group, or association, of Baptist churches.

 

[Offline4Better.]

When it comes to Baptist Churches, please remember that the SBC is not the only large group, or association, of Baptist churches.

Yeah, I believe their is an ABC church as well (American Baptist Church), which is a little more liberal. It is good that there are different flavors of Baptist churches. What is your favorite flavor of Baptist church?

 

[Vambram]

Yeah, I believe their is an ABC church as well (American Baptist Church), which is a little more liberal. It is good that there are different flavors of Baptist churches. What is your favorite flavor of Baptist church?

Independent Fundamentalist Baptist.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Independent Fundamentalist Baptist.

Independent is sometimes the way to go nowadays. Sometimes, the churches get too much power. I am a Catholic, and sometimes, it seems that the Pope has too much power. So, for myself, I would be considered a moderate Christian (not fundamentalist, not liberal, as I am an Old-Earth Creationist, but I am tired of churches pushing progressive LGBT doctrines onto people, or church leaders denying John 14:6).

Please pray for the Catholic church, that it does not go the same way as the Unitarians, UCC and ELCA churches.

Pope denied John 14:6:

Pope in multi-faith Singapore says ‘all religions are a path to God’

Pope Francis is welcomed by dancing children as he arrives at Singapore Changi International Airport, Wednesday, Sept. 11, 2024. Pope Francis is heading to Singapore for the final leg of his 11-day trip to Asia and Oceania. (Credit: Gregorio Borgia/AP.) SINGAPORE – In a line that may once again...

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[Offline4Better.]

So guys, the devotional of Spiritual Warfare is finally released. Given the news about the pagers in Lebanon and the state of the world in 2024, I had to add a lot of info into the devotional. This is relevant to how churches have either began promoting the woke agenda or on the total opposite side, some churches have become quick to judge. As of 2024, the Baptist church and only a few other denominations such as the Orthodox and Catholics have taken a stand against woke ideologies.

Battle Stations: Spiritual Warfare Devotional

Battle Stations: Spiritual Warfare

Hello folks. Today's devotional is the longest one of them yet, as it covers the vast topic of spiritual warfare. This battle can be internal with ourselves, or external with dark events going on in the world. Take heart, as God has already won the battle on the cross. Relevant clip: All hands...

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[Markie Boy]

I came out of the Catholic arena. It's got plenty of woke in it - one only has to watch the current pope, and you may wonder at times if he's Christian.

I prefer independent churches that are accountable to their congregation. But I must say, even in the Catholic church on any given Sunday there were really good, conservative people seeking to follow Jesus, and some that probably it was just a check mark.

We have two Baptist churches in town - both are very anti-woke. I could happily attend either.

 

[Offline4Better.]

I came out of the Catholic arena. It's got plenty of woke in it - one only has to watch the current pope, and you may wonder at times if he's Christian.

I prefer independent churches that are accountable to their congregation. But I must say, even in the Catholic church on any given Sunday there were really good, conservative people seeking to follow Jesus, and some that probably it was just a check mark.

We have two Baptist churches in town - both are very anti-woke. I could happily attend either.

I agree with you. Just look at what the Pope said a few weeks ago, The Catholic church used to be moderate (neither left nor right), but now it has slid to the left cos of Pope Francis.

That is one thing I like about Protestants (Anglicans, Baptists, Lutherans etc) and Orthodox churches, as they have no need for a Pope. The Catholics have the Eucharist though. Every church has their strengths and weaknesses, but overall, we might witness a great falling of every church, with only independent churches, or underground churches prevailing. When that day comes, I may have to find a different church. Yesterday's mass did not sit well with me (Sunday 9/29/2024 was the first ever mass that was not good at all), as I asked the priest after church service what he felt about Pope Francis' statement. The priest said "all religions are a path to seek God". I said, John 14:6 proves otherwise. The priest said "read up on Vatican II". I then said "have a blessed day" and left.

Guys, the doctrines of demons are taking over every church, regardless of denomination. The Pope could have easily said instead "all other religions are a futile attempt to seek God and have fallen short. Only through the narrow path of Jesus can one approach God the Father". But, the pope never said those words. Pope Francis said this demonic teaching: "All religions are a path to God".

 

[Markie Boy]

Catholicism has leveraged the Eucharist to keep people there, telling them only they have it, because only they have valid priests with Apostolic Succession.

Once you do the homework and find out Apostolic Succession they way they claim is a later accretion, and not divine - everyone is on level playing ground. The thing that got my eyes opening was the debate between James White and Fr. Mitch Pacwa on the priesthood. In general I'm not a James White fan, and I actually like Fr. Pacwa quite a bit. But the debate proved to me that nobody is ordained a priest anywhere in the New Testament - not as an office of the Christian church. Jesus is the high priest, we have the priesthood of all believers - that's us - but no priests like in Judaism. Read Hebrews.

If the Catholic clergy had all these extra powers because of special "graces" of ordination - why is it in the shape it is?

 

[Offline4Better.]

Catholicism has leveraged the Eucharist to keep people there, telling them only they have it, because only they have valid priests with Apostolic Succession.

Once you do the homework and find out Apostolic Succession they way they claim is a later accretion, and not divine - everyone is on level playing ground. The thing that got my eyes opening was the debate between James White and Fr. Mitch Pacwa on the priesthood. In general I'm not a James White fan, and I actually like Fr. Pacwa quite a bit. But the debate proved to me that nobody is ordained a priest anywhere in the New Testament - not as an office of the Christian church. Jesus is the high priest, we have the priesthood of all believers - that's us - but no priests like in Judaism. Read Hebrews.

If the Catholic clergy had all these extra powers because of special "graces" of ordination - why is it in the shape it is?

I agree with you. Jesus is the only high priest here. And if the Catholic church gets a lot of special graces, why do creepy priests touch children. Same thing happens in Protestant churches. In other words, all churches are fallen, and the Catholic church is no more "holy" compared to Protestant or Orthodox (but I would not tell that to my priest).

 

[Markie Boy]

I agree with you. Jesus is the only high priest here. And if the Catholic church gets a lot of special graces, why do creepy priests touch children. Same thing happens in Protestant churches. In other words, all churches are fallen, and the Catholic church is no more "holy" compared to Protestant or Orthodox (but I would not tell that to my priest).

I agree - no church is perfect, or infallible. I'm not saying protestants are light years better - they just don't claim infallibility, and submission to their authority like Rome does. It's more of the freedom that Christ came to bring us.

Now sometimes that freedom is freedom to screw up and fail too. And there are things I still admire and miss about the Catholic church. If only they could drop the infallibility stuff, and mandatory celibacy.

 

[Offline4Better.]

I agree - no church is perfect, or infallible. I'm not saying protestants are light years better - they just don't claim infallibility, and submission to their authority like Rome does. It's more of the freedom that Christ came to bring us.

Now sometimes that freedom is freedom to screw up and fail too. And there are things I still admire and miss about the Catholic church. If only they could drop the infallibility stuff, and mandatory celibacy.

I agree with you. If the Catholic church could drop the infallibility and mandatory celibacy, I would like them more. You might like the more conservative branches of the Anglican church or the more moderate branches of the Orthodox church, though the Anglicans are more free about what their priests can do.

 

[Markie Boy]

I think one thing that is a deal breaker - any church that claims you need their priests to get the sacraments that give God's grace.

From all I can tell in Scripture, and the first 100 years of the church - there are no priests as mediators like in the Old Covenant. So - the RCC, Orthodoxy, and I don't know about Anglicans - but any group claiming you need their priests with Apostolic Succession is pretty much out for me. It's the system Jesus came to do away with, but man re-built.

 

[David Lamb]

I don't know about Anglicans - but any group claiming you need their priests with Apostolic Succession is pretty much out for me. It's the system Jesus came to do away with, but man re-built.

Anglicanism varies tremendously. There are some Anglican churches which are almost indistinguishable from Roman Catholic churches, with confession to a "priest", calling the minister "Father", use of incense, and so on. Then there are some Anglican churches which are thoroughly evangelical.

 

[Offline4Better.]

I think one thing that is a deal breaker - any church that claims you need their priests to get the sacraments that give God's grace.

From all I can tell in Scripture, and the first 100 years of the church - there are no priests as mediators like in the Old Covenant. So - the RCC, Orthodoxy, and I don't know about Anglicans - but any group claiming you need their priests with Apostolic Succession is pretty much out for me. It's the system Jesus came to do away with, but man re-built.

Yeah, I agree with you. The reason I go to confession sometimes is so another person can hear my sins, even though Jesus can cleanse us of our sins in private. Sometimes it is good to have another person hear us confess.

But yes, there is a lot of corruption in every church, and the Catholics want to have too much control. Don't tell my Catholic friends here, but I am more of a mishmash of Protestant and Catholic here. Confession can be done in private with Jesus, or even with a friend (once confessed to Jesus). The Pope is just a guy, not holier than thou.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Yeah, I agree with you. The reason I go to confession sometimes is so another person can hear my sins, even though Jesus can cleanse us of our sins in private. Sometimes it is good to have another person hear us confess.

But yes, there is a lot of corruption in every church, and the Catholics want to have too much control. Don't tell my Catholic friends here, but I am more of a mishmash of Protestant and Catholic here. Confession can be done in private with Jesus, or even with a friend (once confessed to Jesus). The Pope is just a guy, not holier than thou.

I can tell you are not a very good "Catholic" here! Your mother ought to be ashamed of you!

I see you are often speaking about churches that are "Woke" or "Liberal" but I would also caution you that a Church is not a good church simply because it is "NOT liberal" or "NOT woke!" What makes a church a GOOD church is whether they are sound on their doctrine and proclaim the same gospel that the Apostle Paul preached (Gal 1:8-9)!

This may make for good discussion on a new thread if it has not been discussed previously.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Anglicanism varies tremendously. There are some Anglican churches which are almost indistinguishable from Roman Catholic churches, with confession to a "priest", calling the minister "Father", use of incense, and so on. Then there are some Anglican churches which are thoroughly evangelical.

I have interacted with an Anglican Priest on another forum years ago who seemed quite solid and very much evangelical as you are saying. I enjoyed our exchanges and if I were in town where he pastored, I would love to have met him in person and even attend one of his services! George Whitfield was an Anglican before starting the Methodist movement with the Wesley brothers so you have that as well.

 

[Offline4Better.]

I can tell you are not a very good "Catholic" here! Your mother ought to be ashamed of you!

I see you are often speaking about churches that are "Woke" or "Liberal" but I would also caution you that a Church is not a good church simply because it is "NOT liberal" or "NOT woke!" What makes a church a GOOD church is whether they are sound on their doctrine and proclaim the same gospel that the Apostle Paul preached (Gal 1:8-9)!

This may make for good discussion on a new thread if it has not been discussed previously.

Amen to that, I agree with the fact that the church must be sound in their doctrine. Churches that focus too much on politics tend to be less sound on their doctrine compared to churches that focus on helping their local community or focus on preaching the gospel. Some churches speak a false gospel, a sermon of individuality (my party, my choice, etc) instead of a Christian doctrine. God is not to be messed around with, and a lot of churches are playing with fire of a dangerous type.

I am gonna say something as a moderate here: If a church endorses Kamala, or endorses Trump, or focuses too much on entertainment, then the church is not following the doctrine of Christ.

My parents and I used to be nondenominational until 2019 and 2022 respectively, but I like both Protestants and Catholics equally.