Thief on the cross was saved under the Mosaic covenant, not the New. The resurrection had not yet happened.Someone brought up the thief on the cross earlier.
What is your response to that?
There is no "Command of Jesus for the Believer to be Baptized."This verse, in and of itself does not negate the Command of Jesus for the Believer to be Baptized.
I don't think the resurrection marked a knife cut division between the old and the new.Thief on the cross was saved under the Mosaic covenant, not the New. The resurrection had not yet happened.
So that is not applicable to modern christianity.
Why is that?And the thief on the cross couldn't have been saved by the Mosaic covenant.
I am not defending that.If you are defending baptism as a means of salvation, what do you do with those Jesus was baptizing, obviously before his resurrection.
There is no "Command of Jesus for the Believer to be Baptized."
The command of Jesus was TO baptize, not to BE baptized. It was addressed to the apostles and evangelists, NOT the new believers.
Matthew 28:19This was NOT addressed to "them," the new believers.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Thou shalt not steal. (guilty)Why is that?
How did you verify these facts? What is your source?I am not defending that.
It was quite clear under the Mosaic covenant. The same as John's baptism. About 1500 baptismal fonts (called mikvah pools) were around the Temple in Jerusalem.
(Using current terminology)
Everyone got baptized before entering the Temple.
A woman got baptized every month following her period.
A groom and a bride got baptized before getting married.
A person who had strayed from Judaism and came back got baptized.
The latter is what John's and our Lord's baptisms were all about. It was a normal part of Judaism. Still is.
Why is this stuff NOT being taught in our churches?
I have seen some of the Mikva pools myself. The rest is in the Talmud.How did you verify these facts? What is your source?
My understanding is that they were for ceremonial washing, not baptism.I have seen some of the Mikva pools myself. The rest is in the Talmud.
Baptism is always recommended and should be wanted by the believer but, since the thief on the cross was on his way to Paradise it's hard to say for sure.Can we get to heaven if we aren't baptized?
The difference being - what exactly?My understanding is that they were for ceremonial washing, not baptism.
The law required ceremonial washing, not "baptism".The difference being - what exactly?
Water Baptism IS a ceremonial washing. Don't manufacture a distinction where there is none.The law required ceremonial washing, not "baptism".
Can you find a reference to required baptism in the OT using these founts?
So, you claim it is baptism, but it is never referred to as baptism in your sources?Water Baptism IS a ceremonial washing.
We have the ritual recorded in the talmuds.
The OT requirements are to be dipped (immersed) in mayim chaim, living water. That means water that is not stagnant; capable of supporting life.
Which means the pools in jerusalem had to be supplied with fresh rain water or fresh stream water frequently.
My sources are in Hebrew and Aramaic; "Baptism" is a derivative of the Greek word baptizo.**So, you claim it is baptism, but it is never referred to as baptism in your sources?
While I could take that as an ad hominem attack, I will not.That seems to be your own private interpretation.
The difference being - what exactly?
Water Baptism IS a ceremonial washing. Don't manufacture a distinction where there is none.
We have the ritual recorded in the talmuds.
The OT requirements are to be dipped (immersed) in mayim chaim, living water. That means water that is not stagnant; capable of supporting life.
Which means the pools in jerusalem had to be supplied with fresh rain water or fresh stream water frequently.
Not the invention of a Messianic bias?While I could take that as an ad hominem attack, I will not.
The linkage and continuity between the mikvah pools of Temple period Judaism and Christian baptism is common knowledge in Messianic circles.
If it is NOT common knowledge in your theological circles, then someone is not passing on needed information.
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