Baptism - Requirement or Not

[Doc T]

Righteous enough to have his sins remitted/to be saved/to have eternal life.

But the Bible says those who believe are saved, those who believe have remission of sins. It doesn't say, "Those who believe have remission of some sins and baptism takes care of the rest."

I believe that when the Bible speaks of those who believe will be saved or have a remission of their sins, it is because those who believed would subsequently be baptized.

Doc

~

 

[Rescued One]

I believe that when the Bible speaks of those who believe will be saved or have a remission of their sins, it is because those who believed would subsequently be baptized.

Doc

~

You're dodging my inquiry. Is there a remission of sins without baptism? Surely you know the answer. If you have been baptized, don't you know why you were baptized?

 

[Doc T]

You're dodging my inquiry.

Perhaps it is because I am not understanding your inquires.

Is there a remission of sins without baptism? Surely you know the answer.

Yes, I answered this question once. Faith, repentance, baptism and reciept of the Holy Ghost, bring about remission of sins.

If you have been baptized, don't you know why you were baptized?

I do, do you?

Doc

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[shawn_h76]

Yes, I answered this question once. Faith, repentance, baptism and reciept of the Holy Ghost, bring about remission of sins.


~

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

[Rescued One]

Perhaps it is because I am not understanding your inquires.



Yes, I answered this question once. Faith, repentance, baptism and reciept of the Holy Ghost, bring about remission of sins.




I do, do you?

Doc

I get it. So you believe all four of those are necessary in order to have your sins remitted.

I was baptized because my sins were remitted the moment I was saved. The baptism was a sign to all present that I had become a Christian. But it is the blood, as Shawn pointed out, that remits our sins, not the baptism.

John 1:29
Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


I Peter 1:18,19
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot.


Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

 

[Doc T]

I get it. So you believe all four of those are necessary in order to have your sins remitted.

Yes

I was baptized because my sins were remitted the moment I was saved. The baptism was a sign to all present that I had become a Christian. But it is the blood, as Shawn pointed out, that remits our sins, not the baptism.

I was saved when I accepted Christ, was baptized and received the baptism of fire; entered into a covenant with Christ by which my sins were remitted because of Christ's blood.

Doc

~

 

[Rescued One]

Yes



I was saved when I accepted Christ, was baptized and received the baptism of fire; entered into a covenant with Christ by which my sins were remitted because of Christ's blood.

Doc

~

But you claimed you had to be baptized and confirmed in order to have your sins remitted. So according to Mormonism, or at least according to Doc, only Mormons can have their sins remitted.

 

[Ran77]

But you claimed you had to be baptized and confirmed in order to have your sins remitted. So according to Mormonism, or at least according to Doc, only Mormons can have their sins remitted.

I think it is more accurate to say: Anyone can have their sins remitted, but only those that are members of God's Church have had them remitted.

 

[Rescued One]

I think it is more accurate to say: Anyone can have their sins remitted, but only those that are members of God's Church have had them remitted.

I said:

'So according to Mormonism, or at least according to Doc, only Mormons can have their sins remitted."

You are saying:

Anyone can have their sins remitted, but only those that are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have had them remitted.

 

[Doc T]

But you claimed you had to be baptized and confirmed in order to have your sins remitted. So according to Mormonism, or at least according to Doc, only Mormons can have their sins remitted.

No, I said that I was "saved when I accepted Christ, was baptized and received the baptism of fire; entered into a covenant with Christ by which my sins were remitted because of Christ's blood". I said nothing about Mormonism.

Doc

~

 

[RufustheRed]

No, I said that I was "saved when I accepted Christ, was baptized and received the baptism of fire; entered into a covenant with Christ by which my sins were remitted because of Christ's blood". I said nothing about Mormonism.

Doc

~

So would you say that a person can have everlasting/eternal life without ever having any connection to the LDS Church or Mormonism?

Sven

 

[Rescued One]

No, I said that I was "saved when I accepted Christ, was baptized and received the baptism of fire; entered into a covenant with Christ by which my sins were remitted because of Christ's blood". I said nothing about Mormonism.

Doc

~

Why not? Ran says you have to be a member of God's church; I assume he considers the LDS church God's church. Do you agree with him? If not, you two must be listening to different spirits.

 

[Ran77]

I said:

'So according to Mormonism, or at least according to Doc, only Mormons can have their sins remitted."

You are saying:

Anyone can have their sins remitted, but only those that are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have had them remitted.

No. I am saying: Anyone can have their sins remitted, but only those that are members of God's Church have had them remitted.

In this dispensation I believe that God's Church is represented by the LDS Church. I believe it contains the same doctrine as God's Church during Christ's time. And I believe that it represents the same authority as God's Church during Adam's time.

 

[Rescued One]

No. I am saying: Anyone can have their sins remitted, but only those that are members of God's Church have had them remitted.

In this dispensation I believe that God's Church is represented by the LDS Church. I believe it contains the same doctrine as God's Church during Christ's time. And I believe that it represents the same authority as God's Church during Adam's time.

IOW, according to your beliefs, those here who do not belong to your church have not had their sins remitted. You're welcome to your opinion.

 

[Ran77]

IOW, according to your beliefs, those here who do not belong to your church have not had their sins remitted. You're welcome to your opinion.

No. Those who do not belong to God's Church have not had their sins remitted. I don't have a church. You seem to be having difficulty representing my comments correctly. Why is that?

 

[Visage of Glory]

So would you say that a person can have everlasting/eternal life without ever having any connection to the LDS Church or Mormonism?

Sven

You are pretty close in my opinion. But you are missing one important thing. We believe are church is Christ's church, and it is only through His church on Earth that one can be saved, in whatever form it may take. From Adam, to the Abrahamic covenant, to the Mosiac law, they were all Christ's Church and the only way to reach the Kingdom of heaven and to gain eternal life with God, His Only Begotten, and His Holy Spirit. If you are not part of Christ's flock, you will not be saved.

 

[RufustheRed]

You are pretty close in my opinion. But you are missing one important thing. We believe are church is Christ's church, and it is only through His church on Earth that one can be saved, in whatever form it may take. From Adam, to the Abrahamic covenant, to the Mosiac law, they were all Christ's Church and the only way to reach the Kingdom of heaven and to gain eternal life with God, His Only Begotten, and His Holy Spirit. If you are not part of Christ's flock, you will not be saved.

Finally! Someone answered my question. Thank you. I don't understand what it is you think I missed, but anyway...

We differ in one very important (well, probably more than one) issue. I believe that the "restoration" was not necessary, therefore, those who follow the teachings of the inventor of the LDS, are going against the church that God planted on this earth. The natural conclusion is if one must be a member of the Church of the Lamb of God, then God's Church does not, did not and will not need to be "restored." The whole doctrine of the LDS church and its splinter groups is based on the concept that God chose to let His church fall into the hands of Satan. I, personally do not believe that he allowed His son to be our sacrifice in the fullness of time only to have his work erode within a few decades.

Again, I appreciate your candor, but it is a black and white issue, isn't it? Either you believe that God allowed the Bride of the Lamb to become totally soiled and utterly worthless so that someone could come along and say that all professors of Christ were (are?) corrupt or you believe that God started a a good work in us commencing with the atonement and has continued to do so through the ages. It's a very easy choice for me.

Again, thanks for your time.

Sven

 

[happyinhisgrace]

You are pretty close in my opinion. But you are missing one important thing. We believe are church is Christ's church, and it is only through His church on Earth that one can be saved, in whatever form it may take. From Adam, to the Abrahamic covenant, to the Mosiac law, they were all Christ's Church and the only way to reach the Kingdom of heaven and to gain eternal life with God, His Only Begotten, and His Holy Spirit. If you are not part of Christ's flock, you will not be saved.

This is what I get when I read the above : "Jesus doesn't save, the Mormon church does."

 

[Tawhano]

skylark1 said:
Baptism symbolizes death to our old sinful way of life....to the power of sin over us. "Burial" in the water represents uniting with Christ in his death and burial. Coming up from the water symbolizes that we are resurrected to new life with Christ. We are no longer slaves to sin, but are free to choose to live for Christ.

And you don’t think this is important?

We are saved by grace. This is the new covenant that God promised.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

To enter into this covenant you must have faith.

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Faith without works is dead.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Of course all of you already know this. I am just bringing these truths to this conclusion.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism for the remission of sins was water baptism. Becoming a new creature was the ‘baptism’ of the Holy Spirit. Water Baptism, as stated by Skylark, is symbolic of our dying in and being raised by Christ. The very act is an act of faith. The faith that gains us access into the covenant of grace.

 

[A New Dawn]

We differ in one very important (well, probably more than one) issue. I believe that the "restoration" was not necessary, therefore, those who follow the teachings of the inventor of the LDS, are going against the church that God planted on this earth. The natural conclusion is if one must be a member of the Church of the Lamb of God, then God's Church does not, did not and will not need to be "restored." The whole doctrine of the LDS church and its splinter groups is based on the concept that God chose to let His church fall into the hands of Satan. I, personally do not believe that he allowed His son to be our sacrifice in the fullness of time only to have his work erode within a few decades.

Sven

God gave His church to man. It was man who allowed it to fall into the hands of Satan.

And as far as when the apostacy occurred, most markers tend to point to closer to 600 AD.