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Baptism of blood applied to infants

royal priest

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interesting idea
not 100% sure
I know the children who were killed in Bethlehem by King Harod are sometimes referred to as the "holy innocents" and are viewed as martyrs in the sense they died for Christ

that would be the only situation I can think of
I can see that example as being a tenable reason.
 
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Davidnic

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Some theologians apply it but it is not the practice of the Church to do so. There is a document on the topic. From that:

During the 20th century, some theologians, developing certain more ancient theological theses, proposed to recognize for little children either some kind of Baptism of blood (by taking into consideration the suffering and death of these infants), or some kind of Baptism of desire (by invoking an “unconscious desire” for Baptism in these infants oriented toward justification, or the desire of the Church).[58] The proposals invoking some kind of Baptism of desire or Baptism of blood, however, involved certain difficulties. On the one hand, the adult's act of desire for Baptism can hardly be attributed to children. The little child is scarcely capable of supplying the fully free and responsible personal act which would constitute a substitution for sacramental Baptism; such a fully free and responsible act is rooted in a judgement of reason and cannot be properly achieved before the human person has reached a sufficient or appropriate use of reason (aetas discretionis: “age of discretion”). On the other hand, it is difficult to understand how the Church could properly “supply” for unbaptised infants. The case of sacramental Baptism, instead, is quite different because sacramental Baptism, administered to infants, obtains grace in virtue of that which is specifically proper to the sacrament as such, that is, the certain gift of regeneration by the power of Christ himself. That is why Pope Pius XII, recalling the importance of sacramental Baptism, explained in the “Allocution to Italian Midwives” in 1951: “The state of grace is absolutely necessary for salvation: without it supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God, cannot be attained. In an adult an act of love may suffice to obtain him sanctifying grace and so supply for the lack of Baptism; to the child still unborn, or newly born, this way is not open”.[59]This gave rise among theologians to a renewed reflection on the dispositions of infants with respect to the reception of divine grace, on the possibility of an extra-sacramental configuration to Christ, and on the maternal mediation of the Church.

The entire document concludes that we have great hope that children who die without Baptism are saved because of an act on God's part alone. This would be the actual teaching on the matter:

101. “As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the children come to me, do not hinder them’ (Mk 10:14; cf.1Tim 2:4), allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism”.


3.6. Hope

102. Within the hope that the Church bears for the whole of humanity and wants to proclaim afresh to the world of today, is there a hope for the salvation of infants who die without Baptism? We have carefully re-considered this complex question, with gratitude and respect for the responses that have been given through the history of the Church, but also with an awareness that it falls to us to give a coherent response for today. Reflecting within the one tradition of faith that unites the Church through the ages, and relying utterly on the guidance of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised would lead his followers “into all the truth” (Jn 16:13), we have sought to read the signs of the times and to interpret them in the light of the Gospel. Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered above give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptised infants who die will be saved and enjoy the Beatific Vision. We emphasise that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge. There is much that simply has not been revealed to us (cf. Jn 16:12). We live by faith and hope in the God of mercy and love who has been revealed to us in Christ, and the Spirit moves us to pray in constant thankfulness and joy (cf. 1 Thess 5:18).

103. What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of Baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of Baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church.


The entire document, which is a good read...is here:

The Hope of Salvation For Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized
 
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LivingWordUnity

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interesting idea
not 100% sure
I know the children who were killed in Bethlehem by King Harod are sometimes referred to as the "holy innocents" and are viewed as martyrs in the sense they died for Christ

that would be the only situation I can think of
It seems like the same principle would apply for when an abortion is done with a satanic intention.
 
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JackRT

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To me, baptism presupposes a conscious informed decision to be baptized. I do not see any circumstances that this might be the case of an infant or a foetus. Of course you can always conjure something out of thin air like an "unconscious desire".
 
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Rhamiel

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To me, baptism presupposes a conscious informed decision to be baptized. I do not see any circumstances that this might be the case of an infant or a foetus. Of course you can always conjure something out of this air like an "unconscious desire".

that is not a biblical view

Baptism is about how you enter into the New Covenant
look in the Old Testament, the Old Covenant, Israel was called to be faithful, but there was also the component of circumcision, which was also done to children
so the children of the Israelites were let into the Old Covenant
it would not make sense for the New Covenant to be less inclusive then the Old Covenant
 
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Davidnic

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To me, baptism presupposes a conscious informed decision to be baptized. I do not see any circumstances that this might be the case of an infant or a foetus. Of course you can always conjure something out of this air like an "unconscious desire".

Well in Act of The Apostles and Paul's letters entire households of all ages were Baptized. The term household referred to all members of all ages and they are assumed included in the practice of that time. There is evidence that the early Church Baptized infants. So we do as they did and have kept that Tradition. The first time there was ever a question was should we wait until the 8th day after birth or sooner. That was in the third century. There is historical indication that by 140 AD infant Baptism was the assumed norm carried out by those taught by those taught directly by the Apostles. So it is not like we are making things out of thin air, rather just carrying on the Apostolic Tradition handed down from the Apostles.
 
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JackRT

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There is historical indication that by 140 AD infant Baptism was the assumed norm carried out by those taught by those taught directly by the Apostles.

By AD 140 it is highly doubtful that there were any living who were taught by the apostles.
 
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Davidnic

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By AD 140 it is highly doubtful that there were any living who were taught by the apostles.

As I said those taught by those taught directly by the Apostles. Those taught directly by Polycarp who was taught by John is a definite. Also Irenaeus, and the other Early Church Fathers taught by those taught by the Apostles.
 
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Davidnic

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This is in addition to the Scripture that shows it as practice. So there is Scripture from the days of the Apostles and it still being practiced by those taught by those taught by them. And the only objection in 300 years being should they wait eight days. Not should they Baptize infants. That was a given.
 
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Rhamiel

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To me, baptism is a public rite celebrating something that has already taken place.

that is not a biblical view
no where in the Bible does it say "Baptism is just an external sign"

no, the adverse is true
1 Peter 3:20 says that the Flood in the days of Noah symbolize Baptism "which now saves us"

this is not a case of building a whole theology on one verse
every instance of Baptism talked about in the Bible speaks of it in similar terms
 
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royal priest

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Some theologians apply it but it is not the practice of the Church to do so. There is a document on the topic. From that:

During the 20th century, some theologians, developing certain more ancient theological theses, proposed to recognize for little children either some kind of Baptism of blood (by taking into consideration the suffering and death of these infants), or some kind of Baptism of desire (by invoking an “unconscious desire” for Baptism in these infants oriented toward justification, or the desire of the Church).[58] The proposals invoking some kind of Baptism of desire or Baptism of blood, however, involved certain difficulties. On the one hand, the adult's act of desire for Baptism can hardly be attributed to children. The little child is scarcely capable of supplying the fully free and responsible personal act which would constitute a substitution for sacramental Baptism; such a fully free and responsible act is rooted in a judgement of reason and cannot be properly achieved before the human person has reached a sufficient or appropriate use of reason (aetas discretionis: “age of discretion”). On the other hand, it is difficult to understand how the Church could properly “supply” for unbaptised infants. The case of sacramental Baptism, instead, is quite different because sacramental Baptism, administered to infants, obtains grace in virtue of that which is specifically proper to the sacrament as such, that is, the certain gift of regeneration by the power of Christ himself. That is why Pope Pius XII, recalling the importance of sacramental Baptism, explained in the “Allocution to Italian Midwives” in 1951: “The state of grace is absolutely necessary for salvation: without it supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God, cannot be attained. In an adult an act of love may suffice to obtain him sanctifying grace and so supply for the lack of Baptism; to the child still unborn, or newly born, this way is not open”.[59]This gave rise among theologians to a renewed reflection on the dispositions of infants with respect to the reception of divine grace, on the possibility of an extra-sacramental configuration to Christ, and on the maternal mediation of the Church.

The entire document concludes that we have great hope that children who die without Baptism are saved because of an act on God's part alone. This would be the actual teaching on the matter:

101. “As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the children come to me, do not hinder them’ (Mk 10:14; cf.1Tim 2:4), allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism”.


3.6. Hope

102. Within the hope that the Church bears for the whole of humanity and wants to proclaim afresh to the world of today, is there a hope for the salvation of infants who die without Baptism? We have carefully re-considered this complex question, with gratitude and respect for the responses that have been given through the history of the Church, but also with an awareness that it falls to us to give a coherent response for today. Reflecting within the one tradition of faith that unites the Church through the ages, and relying utterly on the guidance of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised would lead his followers “into all the truth” (Jn 16:13), we have sought to read the signs of the times and to interpret them in the light of the Gospel. Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered above give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptised infants who die will be saved and enjoy the Beatific Vision. We emphasise that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge. There is much that simply has not been revealed to us (cf. Jn 16:12). We live by faith and hope in the God of mercy and love who has been revealed to us in Christ, and the Spirit moves us to pray in constant thankfulness and joy (cf. 1 Thess 5:18).

103. What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of Baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of Baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church.


The entire document, which is a good read...is here:

The Hope of Salvation For Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized
Thank you for sharing this. I have not plowed completely through it yet, but so far, it is very informative. It is always interesting to see how the RCC finds ways to adapt to her ever-changing "context of cultural relativism and religious pluralism."
 
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royal priest

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Thank you for sharing this. I have not plowed completely through it yet, but so far, it is very informative. It is always interesting to see how the RCC finds ways to adapt to her ever-changing "context of cultural relativism and religious pluralism."
The article mention it's source as the, The International Theological Commission. Is this commission an authoritative voice of the RCC?
 
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Davidnic

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The article mention it's source as the, The International Theological Commission. Is this commission an authoritative voice of the RCC?

The commission itself does not have Magisterial teaching authority like a Bishop. But the document is required to include footnotes and references to actual teaching where it makes assertions. So while the commission is not a teaching authority in and of itself it is under the Congregation For the Doctrine of Faith who makes sure that any publication is not at odds with teaching.

Essentially, since there are many, many grades of classification for teaching this would be what is call "most probable" since it deals with the will of God outside the Sacraments and we can not know or judge His actions of mercy and when He chooses to give it.

But individual things that are presented as teaching should be referenced to the source of the teaching, this could be anything from Scripture to documents of the Second Vatican Council.
 
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Davidnic

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But the Church does not teach that Baptism of Blood is applied to Infants. Some Theologians have proposed that and at times you see flowery imprecise language that hints at it but the difficulties with it are vast. The actual teaching is that we trust to the mercy of God to handle these cases (as well as miscarriage and abortion) with His Mercy and Justice, which is far beyond us. So we maintain there is a case of Hope for their Salvation that rests in God alone. And we should trust His Mercy as sufficient. Since we are saved by Grace it is up to God to see to these helpless ones.
 
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Davidnic

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If I don't reply further I am not being rude. I work overnight into the mornings starting on Monday mornings. So I will likely not be online the rest of the day as I get stuff ready before going to bed early evening. I hope you find the answer to your question and have a blessed Sunday.
 
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royal priest

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But the Church does not teach that Baptism of Blood is applied to Infants. Some Theologians have proposed that and at times you see flowery imprecise language that hints at it but the difficulties with it are vast. The actual teaching is that we trust to the mercy of God to handle these cases (as well as miscarriage and abortion) with His Mercy and Justice, which is far beyond us. So we maintain there is a case of Hope for their Salvation that rests in God alone. And we should trust His Mercy as sufficient. Since we are saved by Grace it is up to God to see to these helpless ones.
Thanks for that clarification.
 
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benedictaoo

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I understand that RCC theology teaches that the blood of martyrdom is effectual to infuse sanctifying grace to the martyr, but why or how is it possible in the case of an infant?
We leave them to God's mercy if they are not baptized. Baptism of desire would apply if anything.
 
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