Baptism--Is It Necessary for Salvation Thread

[katherine2001]

Could some of you help out on that thread, which is on the General Theology board? I think I am about to give up on that one. It is so easy to get frustrated on the threads on that board. Do you ever feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall?

 

[Oblio]

Sure do. Been bruising head over on the Theotokos thread. I can't decide if people are just stubborn or if I am just not getting the basics through to them. The claim now is that mothers evidentely create their children. IMO, the debate turns to these red herrings and latching on to logic that makes no theological sense, because to do otherwise would be to have the rest of the argument crumble.

 

[OrthodoxTexan]

Wow, I just checked out the Theotokos thread. And we Orthodox thought that Nestorius was once and for all time repudiated by the Church, but the ancient heresy fights on. I almost laughed out loud when one poster implied that the orthodox position on the title Theotokos led to Arian thinking. My laughter was only restrained by the thought of the poor souls who actually fall into the heresy and do not have the spritual discernment to be led to truth.

 

[katherine2001]

Yes, isn't it amazing how Protestants, who usually insist on logic and rationalism, are totally illogical when it comes to the Theotokos? How in the world does a mother only give birth to part of her child? I started to use the example of each of us being made up of a body, soul, and spirit. At least while we are alive on this earth, it's not possible to separate them, even though each is distinct. To say that the Theotokos only gave birth to Christ's human nature but not His human nature is the same thing as saying that my mother gave birth to my body but not my soul and spirit? Did she create them? Of course not. However, she carried me and gave birth to me--all of me, not just my body.

The sad thing is that 4 years ago, I would have thought the same way. Now, it makes me sad (and a little angry) on Mary's behalf. First of all, she is the greatest "mere" human being who has ever lived (as Fr. Hopko likes to say). Number 2, she is His mother, how do you think it makes Him feel when people treat His mother like she's nothing?

 

[prodromos]

Number 2, she is His mother, how do you think it makes Him feel when people treat His mother like she's nothing?

Just remember that He loves them, and she does too

 

[Matthias]

Oh yeah, tell me about it; I've been banging my head over it whenever I go into the forum for teens here at Christian Forums. Thankfully I've stopped going there. The amount of anti-Catholic and anti-Orthodox stuff going on there is terribly disappointing and I felt like screaming.

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

Just remember that He loves them, and she does too

I heard a Catholic say once "I didn't believe in Mary, but she believed in me." Thank God!

Moses