• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Baptism in the spirit...

Orahh

Newbie
Apr 25, 2009
166
7
NSW, Australia
✟22,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I realised I've posted a lot of threads on here latley, but I've had a lot of questions :)
Last night I was baptised in the holy spirit. I spoke in tongues for about 3 minutes, and my body was shaking and God was speaking through me, in praise of him.
I have prayed again in tounges this morning, so I know and am thankful for having it.
Right now, I'm just asking for a bit of advice on how to use it to the best possible way, general things to know and verses that relate.
And anything that will help to not drift away would be really helpful.
God bless you all :angel:
 

hrhthena

Newbie
Mar 5, 2009
1
0
Ohio
✟22,611.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Congratulations Orahh, Our God is a mighty God!! Acts 2:38 tells us that we must Repent, be baptized in Jesus name (not titles), and we shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tounges. Some people get the Holy Ghost before they are baptized. My advice to you to stay stong is to attend a bible believing church, read your bible everyday and pray and praise our God for he is GREAT and Greatly to be Praised!! You should fast as well. Speaking in tongues as the spirit of God gives the utterance is the manifestation God has given as the definite, supernatural witness or sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost ( Acts 2:4:10:46;19;6). It was prophesied by the prophet Isaiah as the rest and the refreshing (Isaiah 28;11-12), foretold by Jesus as a sign that would follow believers of the gospel (Mark 16;17), and experienced by jews and gentiles alike.
The gift of "divers kinds of tongues" mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12;1-12 and concerning which he gave regulations in 1 Corinthians 14; 1-40, is given by both for self-edification (1 corinthians 14;4) and for the edification of the church (1 corithians 14;27-28).
In church meetings the gift of tongues is used to give a public message, and it is to be interpreted. Since this gift can be misused in public, it needs proper regulation (1 corinthians 14;23-28). Not all believers excercise the gift of tongues, which is differant in function from tongues given by God as the initial witness of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Paul said, "Forbid not to speak with tongues"(1 corithians 14;39) and "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Corithians 14;8). Who dares to teach or preach to the contrary?
Speaking in tongues means speaking miraculously in a language unknown to the speaker, as the spirit gives utterance. Tongues can be class
ified in two ways, according to function;(1) speaking in other tongues as the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and (2) the gift of tongues as mentioned in 1 Corinthians.
Jesus said we must be born again of the water abd of the Spirit, or we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. We must be baptized in his name(born of the water) , and recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost (born of the Spirit).
There are sooo many scriptures that I would Love to share with you, but I encourage you to open up His Word and allow Him to speak to you. I Love Him sooo much. I dont know how people live in this life without Him, it is so evil. But He is coming soon to take us all to that mansion He has prepared for us. I want to t be ready, but there is much to do, we need to witness, and tell others too. Be on guard b/c the devil will try to rob you of your glory, but Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world. God promises Never to leave us or forsake us.... Keep standing on His promises. We're gonna make it b/c God will make a way.
Hope this helps!! God Bless you.... HRHThena
 
Upvote 0

Orahh

Newbie
Apr 25, 2009
166
7
NSW, Australia
✟22,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Congratulations Orahh, Our God is a mighty God!! Acts 2:38 tells us that we must Repent, be baptized in Jesus name (not titles), and we shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tounges. Some people get the Holy Ghost before they are baptized. My advice to you to stay stong is to attend a bible believing church, read your bible everyday and pray and praise our God for he is GREAT and Greatly to be Praised!! You should fast as well. Speaking in tongues as the spirit of God gives the utterance is the manifestation God has given as the definite, supernatural witness or sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost ( Acts 2:4:10:46;19;6). It was prophesied by the prophet Isaiah as the rest and the refreshing (Isaiah 28;11-12), foretold by Jesus as a sign that would follow believers of the gospel (Mark 16;17), and experienced by jews and gentiles alike.
The gift of "divers kinds of tongues" mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12;1-12 and concerning which he gave regulations in 1 Corinthians 14; 1-40, is given by both for self-edification (1 corinthians 14;4) and for the edification of the church (1 corithians 14;27-28).
In church meetings the gift of tongues is used to give a public message, and it is to be interpreted. Since this gift can be misused in public, it needs proper regulation (1 corinthians 14;23-28). Not all believers excercise the gift of tongues, which is differant in function from tongues given by God as the initial witness of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Paul said, "Forbid not to speak with tongues"(1 corithians 14;39) and "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Corithians 14;8). Who dares to teach or preach to the contrary?
Speaking in tongues means speaking miraculously in a language unknown to the speaker, as the spirit gives utterance. Tongues can be class
ified in two ways, according to function;(1) speaking in other tongues as the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and (2) the gift of tongues as mentioned in 1 Corinthians.
Jesus said we must be born again of the water abd of the Spirit, or we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. We must be baptized in his name(born of the water) , and recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost (born of the Spirit).
There are sooo many scriptures that I would Love to share with you, but I encourage you to open up His Word and allow Him to speak to you. I Love Him sooo much. I dont know how people live in this life without Him, it is so evil. But He is coming soon to take us all to that mansion He has prepared for us. I want to t be ready, but there is much to do, we need to witness, and tell others too. Be on guard b/c the devil will try to rob you of your glory, but Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world. God promises Never to leave us or forsake us.... Keep standing on His promises. We're gonna make it b/c God will make a way.
Hope this helps!! God Bless you.... HRHThena


thank you :)
 
Upvote 0

SpitfireOverThames

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2006
483
36
London
✟799.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Conservative
Hello,
It has many purposes but the main purpose is that you have that deep connection with Him...to have intimacy with Him (which results in edification). As you allow the language (of your spirit, not your intellect) to flow while worshipping Him, you will be edified in a way that is incredible and special. You can also use this gift to intercede for others, or when you don't know what is happening around you or in another's life... By praying in the Spirit, you will be praying God's perfect will for yourself or for the other person.

And there is yet the possibility that someday, your gift of tongues will be used as a sign to nonbelievers, that someone will hear a message in their language. And they will know that GOD is with and in you.

Yet another purpose is that you may someday give a message in tongues to other believers (such as a church setting or small group). When that happens, pray for the interpretation to accompany the message. That message will do one of three things: edify, encourage, or comfort (and on rare occasion warn).

Many different possible uses, but the main purpose is edification of yourself, or others. As you pray in the Spirit, you are not praying with your understanding/intellect, but your SPIRIT...and that is where the edifying comes in.

If you pray in the Spirit 10-15minutes at the start of your day, you'll discover that you are more sensitive to the Holy Spirit and His leading. If you pray for 30-60minutes a day in the Spirit (allowing for worship), you will grow "larger" in the Spirit... You might start to look like a heavyweight division believer in the eyes of the enemy :)...

Each new day, we need to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Especially those who have experienced the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Remember that receiving that was the entrance way into what GOD has for you. There's much more to explore and learn of and grow into!

Be blessed! And remember that its a fire of love that has been put in you! That is its main strength. It is a fire of love for Him, and because of your love from and for Him, you'll be able to love others.

May the Spirit rest upon you, nothing more, nothing less!
~SEan
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

epistemaniac

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2006
969
80
62
north central Indiana
✟1,528.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
God never asks us to pray without using our intellect... He rather says that we are to worship the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.. Paul says that he would rather speak 5 intelligible words (this implies that many at Corinth were not engaging in a biblically acceptable form of tongues, eg known human languages, and were instead engaging in ecstatic utterances... gibberish...
1 Corinthians 14:19 (ESV) Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue." Tongues, like other miracles, were used by God to authenticate His message. On Pentecost many were convinced iof the truth opf the Christian message by the fact that people were able to speak in languages they did not naturally know, and could hear and understand languages they did not naturally know. As the Good News spread, we see a diminishing of the miraculous such that even Paul, who could (by the power of God) heal others, could not heal himself.
2 Corinthians 12:7-10 (ESV) [7] So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. [8] Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. [9] But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. [10] For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

I realize that people today feel very strongly about tongues. And if they have had an "experience" where they "spoke in tongues" they feel even more validated. However, our feelings are not what direct us to what our faith and practice ought to be. Rather, our feelings are judged by thew word of God, not the other way around. And it seems to me anyway, that as you watch the NT unfold on a historical level, we see the signs and wonders for the most part cease, and people are instructed to believe based on the testimony of the NT writings, which are, according to Peter, sufficient, and containing all that we need for live and godliness, and one of these traits that we need to possess in ever greater measure is self control. But self control is exactly what most of those I have personally witnessed speaking in tongues lack..

2 Peter 1:3-9 (ESV) [3] His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, [4] by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
[5] For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,"

Lastly, we see that the bible teaches that the gifts that God does give are directly given by the decree of the sovereign Lord God. Most often, in my experience anyway, tongues is elevated to the be all and end all of the gifts of the Spirit, and those who "don't have it" are deemed second class citizens. But if God gives this gift strictly according to His will, assuming even for the moment that there is still a purpose for that gift to function today, then those who have it and those who do not experience it or experience the lack of it due to the sovereign decision of God Almighty.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31 (ESV) [27] Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
[30] Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
[31] But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way."

So this rhetorical question "do all speak in tongues?" has an obvious "no" as the answer. This invalidates most of the Charismatics approach to this subject as being one of which where the super Christians speak in tongues, and the other "mere Christians" don't. But they are constantly encouraging all Christians to speak in tongues and at times, use extreme psychological pressure and even guilt manipulation which is exerted upon those who do not "speak in tongues" in order to get them to speak in tongues by whatever means necessary. I have seen people encouraged to speak in nonsensical gibberish after being told to repeat a certain phrase over and over again, faster and faster. As soon as the person trips up and is no longer able to clearly speak the phrase in an intelligible way then..... voila!!! they are said to now have the gift of tongues! This manufacturing of the gift that is given by the sovereign will of the Father to whom ever He pleases is a sad indictment and reminds of Simon the Magician.... Acts 8:14-21 (ESV) [14] Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, [15] who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, [16] for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [17] Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. [18] Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, [19] saying, “Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” [20] But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! [21] You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.

Secondly many wrongly equate "spirit baptism" with "speaking in tongues". All Christians are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. To be a Christian is to "have or be baptized by the Holy Spirit". Mark 1:8 (ESV) I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” And since God is triune, to be baptized by the Holy Spirit is to be baptized by the Father, as well as the Son. In fact, if you are not baptized by the Son, you are not even a Christian. 2 Corinthians 13:5 (ESV) Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!"

blessings,
ken
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Orahh

Newbie
Apr 25, 2009
166
7
NSW, Australia
✟22,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God never asks us to pray without using our intellect... He rather says that we are to worship the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.. Paul says that he would rather speak 5 intelligble words (this implies that many at Corinth were not engagin in a biblically acceptable form of tonhess, eg known human languages, and were instad engaging in ecstatic utterances... giberish...
1 Corinthians 14:19 (ESV) Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue." Tongues, like other miracles, were used by God to authenticate His message. On Pentecost many were convinced iof the truth opf the Christian message by the fact that people were able to speak in languages they did not naturally know, and could hgear and understand languages they did not naturally know. As the Good News spread, we see a diminshing of the mioracouls such that even Paul, who could (by the power of God) heal others, could not heal himself.
2 Corinthians 12:7-10 (ESV) [7] So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. [8] Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. [9] But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” herefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. [10] For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

I realize that people today feel very strongly about tongues. And if they have hade an "experience" where they "spoke in tongues" they feel even more validated. However, our feelings are not what direct us to what our faith and practice ought to be. Rather, our feelings are judged by thew word of God, not the other way around. And it seems to me anyway, that as you watch the NT unfold on a historical level, we see the signs and wonders for the most part cease, and people are instructed to believe based on the testimony of the NT writings, which are, according to Peter, suffceint, and containing all that we need for live and godliness, and one of these traits that we need to possess in ever greater measure is self control. But self control is exactly what most of those I have personally witnessed speaking in tongues lack..

2 Peter 1:3-9 (ESV) [3] His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, [4] by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
[5] For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,"

Lastly, we see that the bible teaches that the gifts that God does give are directly given by the decree of the sovereign Lord God. Most often, in my expereince anyway, tongues is elevated to the be all and end all of the gifts of the Spirit, and those who "don't have it" are deemed second class citizens. But if God gives this gift strictly according to His will, assuming even for the moment that there is still a purpose for that gift to function today, then those who have it and those who do not experience it or experience the lack of it due to the sovereign decision of God Almighty.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31 (ESV) [27] Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
[30] Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
[31] But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way."
So this rhetorical question "do all speak in tongues?" has an obvious "no" as the answer. This invalidates most of the Charismatics approach to this subjhect as being one of which where the super Christians speak in tongues, and the other "mere Christians" don't. But they are constantly encouraging all Christians to speak in tongues and at times, use extreme psychological pressure and even guilt manipulation which is exerted upon those who do not "speak in tonguers" in order to get them to speak in tongues by whatever means necessary. I have seen people encouiraged to speak in nonsenseical gibberish after being told to repeat a certain phrase over and over again, faster and faster. As sson as the person trips up and is no longer abler to xclearly sperak the phrase in an intelligble way voila!!! they are said to now have the gift of tongues! This manufacturing of the gift that is given by the sovereign will of the Father to whom ever He pleases is a sad indictment and reminds of Simon the Magician.... Acts 8:14-21 (ESV) [14] Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
[15] who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
[16] for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[17] Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
[18] Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money,
[19] saying, “Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
[20] But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
[21] You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.



blessings,
ken




[6] and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
[7] and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
[8] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[9] For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.







Secondly many wrongly equate "spirit baptism" with "speaking in tongues". This is likewise mistaken. All Christians are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. To be a Christian is to "have or be baptized by the Holy Spirit". Mark 1:8 (ESV) I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” And since God is triune, to be baptized by the Holy SPirit is to be baptized by the Father, as well as the Son. In fact, if you are not baptized by the Son, you are not even a Christian. 2 Corinthians 13:5 (ESV) Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!"





Okay... you've really confused me.....
 
Upvote 0

SpitfireOverThames

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2006
483
36
London
✟799.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Conservative
Paul says that he would rather speak 5 intelligible words WITHIN a congregational meeting, in other words, to give a proclamation or message, i.e. prophetic utterance or prophecy. We pray from the spirit by the Holy Spirit, and that, my friend, is NOT necessarily connected to our intellect/known language. Now what may happen is that as we pray in the Spirit in the unknown spiritual language, that He will give to our minds a word of encouragement, a vision, a fresh perspective on an old truth.

You misunderstand the spiritual gifts, and the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Friend, you do not believe in the gifts for today, is that right? I believe you are sincere, but sincerely misunderstanding the Scriptures. We must take to heart the whole counsel of GOD's Word, not pick and choose what we want, and explain away things we don't believe with denominational stances (rather than the actual word of God).

You're confusing this young lady because you do not believe in her experience, even though the LORD Jesus is said to be the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit in all four Gospels plus the Book of Acts. Yes, being Baptized in the Spirit can be at conversion, but the "receiving of the Spirit" is most usually something we must ask for or seek after. It is not necessarily automatic (though it should take place as close to conversion as possible).

At conversion, the Spirit brings us to the Lord where forgiveness of sins takes place. The Spirit indwells us at that moment; but the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the receiving and releasing of the Holy Spirit as He becomes like a mighty river flowing from within... How that takes shape will be different for different believers, but generally, a strengthening of our witness for Him takes place. It is a baptism of the fire of love for GOD, for others...

Anyway, I respectfully ask you to refrain from sharing your doctrinal bent on something that is clearly Scriptural and clearly God's best for us. So many Christians live "stuck" lives, deadness coming forth from them because they ignore the need for the immersion of the Holy Spirit (and subsequent refillings each new day).

~Sean
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SpitfireOverThames

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2006
483
36
London
✟799.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Conservative
Okay... you've really confused me.....

You'll have to try to sidestep the epistle dude's theological exercise. Although he means well, I do not feel he understands Scripture in regard to this topic or your experience. Many such people mean well, but they limit themselves to an understanding that does not reflect the full counsel of GOD's Word or good hermenutics. So many Christians are a dead pond of nonmovement. But with the Holy Spirit received, therein pours out of us a living water, a river that was promised in John 7 by the Lord Jesus.

God bless you, Sister!
~Sean
 
Upvote 0

Elijah2

No weapons formed against me will prosper.
Aug 15, 2006
14,651
716
Australia
✟41,096.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Mate, you desired the Spiritual Gift and you received the Spiritual Gift. So use it wisely.

There are no tips in regards to tongues, because it's your gift from HIM, and it all comes from you heart, and that is where you are praying from.

So, don't get caught up with semantics and don't force it and become boastful, because humility is still part and parcel of all Spiritual Gifts.

Blessings.
 
Upvote 0

Orahh

Newbie
Apr 25, 2009
166
7
NSW, Australia
✟22,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Mate, you desired the Spiritual Gift and you received the Spiritual Gift. So use it wisely.

There are no tips in regards to tongues, because it's your gift from HIM, and it all comes from you heart, and that is where you are praying from.

So, don't get caught up with semantics and don't force it and become boastful, because humility is still part and parcel of all Spiritual Gifts.

Blessings.



Thank you, that's really helpful. :angel:
 
Upvote 0

Snyder45

Smoking Gun
Mar 8, 2009
394
7
Azle, Texas (Eagle Mountain Lake)
✟15,575.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I realised I've posted a lot of threads on here latley, but I've had a lot of questions :)
Last night I was baptised in the holy spirit. I spoke in tongues for about 3 minutes, and my body was shaking and God was speaking through me, in praise of him.
I have prayed again in tounges this morning, so I know and am thankful for having it.
Right now, I'm just asking for a bit of advice on how to use it to the best possible way, general things to know and verses that relate.
And anything that will help to not drift away would be really helpful.
God bless you all :angel:

I don't pray in tongues, myself. I do have a tendency to say things without thinking and lo and behold it is exactly what that person needed to hear.

The talent that is all we need is love. Anything else are just tools, arrows, whatever... for our job.

Personally, my weapons are words, and the meanings behind them, I store them up and use them as I go.
 
Upvote 0

Orahh

Newbie
Apr 25, 2009
166
7
NSW, Australia
✟22,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't pray in tongues, myself. I do have a tendency to say things without thinking and lo and behold it is exactly what that person needed to hear.

The talent that is all we need is love. Anything else are just tools, arrows, whatever... for our job.

Personally, my weapons are words, and the meanings behind them, I store them up and use them as I go.





Thanks that's really cool :)
 
Upvote 0

mumof3

Newbie
Jun 20, 2009
4
0
✟22,614.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Oooh hope that thread jumping is OK here??? During prayer tonight God told me to seek confirmation through this forum...no pressure here or anything guys, lol. I became a believer 9 months ago through a wonderful church that was a breakoff from Open brethren so quite conservative and had my water baptism a couple of months later. Not long after that I felt a convicted that there was alot more out there, that the gifts of the spririt were still around today and that I needed to find a church accepting of this to be able to recieve it. So we (my husband an I went through all this journey together, soo cool) moved to a pentecostal church and have been on an amazing spiritual journey since. A little more than a month ago I was baptised in the Holy Spirit, up untill this point I'd had many, MANY, questions re the gifts and had no doubt they were out there and truely wanted this for myself. It was amazing, I spoke in tongues so fast that my mouth was struggling to keep up with my spirit, I had control in that I knew that it was happening an I coudl stop it at any stage I wanted but I allowed it to keep happening for as long as others were still being baptised etc. There was no doubt it was from God, I did feel a bit selfconscious once seated again but that's just the flesh. When I got home that night I tried this new gift again, but although I could throw a string of gibberish together it didn't have the same spriitual feeling so I stopped. The next day during service as they asked for anyone who needed prayer to raise their hand my husband bot brave an accepted this offer (he tried cutting off his thumb with a skillsaw and did a good jod at it) for healing, many of us laid our hands on him and again the tongues just poured out of me, then came the shakes and tears streaming down my face as I felt the Holy Spirit overflowing from within me. Since then many people have said that speaking in tongues is like learning to talk normally, as a baby slowing practices and builds up their vocabulary, so does one who has recieved the gift of tongues. So practice, practice, practice speaking in tongues was the advice given. But the issue I have is that it doesn't have any feeling any other times so it feels like I'm forcing gibberish out and convincing myself it's this heavenly language that I have so definately experienced and long to edify myself with again.

So what can others remember about their journey after they first recieved that gift of tongues? Did it always feel like a direct connection to God or not?

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

epistemaniac

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2006
969
80
62
north central Indiana
✟1,528.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Okay... you've really confused me.....

how exactly...? I would be glad to try and help you in any way that I can.... I certainly do not want to confuse anyone and am just trying to be as faithful to the Scriptures... even over and above individual subject experience, as I can. For it is the Scripture that judges our individual experiences, not the other way around.

blessings,
ken
 
Upvote 0

epistemaniac

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2006
969
80
62
north central Indiana
✟1,528.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
I appreciate SpiritfireOverThames attitude on this subject, but respectfully disagree with his conclusion about me not understanding this issue or am failing to take into account the full council of God's word. We may disagree, and obviously we do, but our disagreement does not necessarily mean that I do not understand the issues, any more than his lack of agreement with me means that he does not understand the issues. I understand them very well.

I came to Christ while living in the St. Pete/Kenneth City/Pinellas Park FL area in the mid 1980's through the witness of an awesome Christian woman who was a Pentecostal. I do not doubt her sincerity. At that time many people tried to get me to speak in tongues. I was a clueless 18 year old who just wanted to serve God with all my heart, so I wanted to speak in tongues if that is what God wanted for me, but I was also determined not to artificially manufacture anything just to fit in with everyone else. And when I never did speak in tongues I was told that I was not saved, that apparently I had some secret sin in my life, etc etc.... Looking back now, I figure the people who spoke in tongues had to authenticate their own experience and when I did not fit in with the Charismatic dictum that everyone would speak in tongues, well obviously there had to be something "wrong" with me. Eventually I fell away from the church because I came to be convinced that God did not in fact love me or He would have given me that gift.
A few years later I began to work my way cautiously back to God, did much personal study on this and many other issues, eventually went to school and got a degree in Biblical Counseling with a double minor in Systematic Theology and Apologetics from a solid conservative Christian Univ., from Grace College and Seminary in Winona Lake IN. This is why SpiritfireOverThames is just flatly mistaken in saying that I do not understand the issues.
Furthermore, every single reply to you in this thread has been a "theological exercise" and just because my response might be a challenge it ought not be therefore automatically disregarded, right? After all we are Christians, people of the Scriptures, and that makes us all inherently "theological" people, so a little theological exercise is what we all need, all the time. :) We are commanded to study and meditate on the Scriptures always. I realize that people in Charismatic circles have a bit of disdain for “theology”. This is both unfortunate and itself unbiblical. We all do theology all the time, as soon as we say that “Jesus saves” we are speaking theologically. As soon as we say who Jesus is, the second person of the Trinity, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, we are doing theology. As soon as we say that the canon of Scripture is closed and no more books are being written, we are doing theology. And whenever we discuss tongues, we are “doing” theology.

The fact is, Charismatic’s are wrong that everyone must speak in tongues and the Scripture clearly says this, as I already mentioned above. Now of course Charismatic’s may say that I am putting God in a box... limiting Him... but I say that the shoe is on the other foot... why MUST God do as they say He must? In any case, I believe very much that God can cause people to speak in tongues, if He wants to. The position I adopt is sometimes called "cautious but open", as opposed to outright cessationaism. Here is a story I was told that illustrates well how God might use tongues today... a woman surgeon had been led to volunteer her time in Africa... time there had been difficult... she had been raped, her life had been threatened... but she persevered... while there she prayed for every single person she ever operated on but no one was ever healed. One day while in a large tent there were many natives in the tent with her... as she was praying suddenly a strong wind blew the flaps of the tent outward and out of fear all the natives hit the ground... all but one... he began to cite a passage out of Isaiah in perfect English. The problem is, he did not speak English and the Bible had not yet been translated into his dialect. The surgeon had the passage translated back into the native’s language so that they knew what was being said, and as a result of this many of the natives came to know the Lord. That seems to be what the gift of tongues is for, and in the following passage it is clear that what is meant actual human language. The fact is, if someone speaks in tongues, no one benefits from it unless it is interpreted, not even themselves if they pray in some so-called "private prayer language".

Hear the Word of the Lord:
1 Corinthians 14:1-25 (ESV) [1] Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. [2] For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. [3] On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. [4] The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. [5] Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. [6] Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [7] If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? [8] And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? [9] So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. [10] There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, [11] but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. [12] So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. [13] Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. [14] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. [15] What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. [16] Otherwise[/'b], if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? [17] For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. [18] I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. [19] Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.[20] Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. [21] In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” [22] Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. [23] If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? [24] But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, [25] the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you."
As a quick aside here, Paul is saying that to prophecy is a much greater gift than speaking in tongues, and prophesying is not “telling the future” or being given some kind of hidden secret knowledge given to someone directly from God. Here, to prophecy is to preach and explain the word of God. “If knowledge pertains to our aptitude to comprehend and interpret God's revelation, what is the meaning of prophesying? Persons who filled the office of prophet in Old or New Testament times received divine revelation and proclaimed it to God's people. Prophets in these two eras were instrumental in writing the Scriptures. But in addition to developing and completing the canon, prophets interpreted God's Word to his people. When the books of the Old Testament were complete, the office of prophet ended. Similarly, when the New Testament canon was perfected, the number of prophets dwindled and they eventually disappeared.
We distinguish between revelatory prophecy that terminated when the canon was complete and declaratory prophecy that continues even today. Scholars dispute this distinction by saying that "preaching is essentially a merging of the gifts of teaching and exhortation, prophecy has the primary elements of prediction and revelation." This observation is correct but describes only the revelatory aspect of the prophet's task and not his declaratory role. Interpreting Scripture is a prophetic function that has its roots in the postexilic period. At the Jerusalem Council, James reveals the continuity of preaching in Old and New Testament times: "For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath" (Acts 15:21). The rabbis could not imagine that Israel was ever without local synagogues and schools. (Baker New Testament Commentary)
So the fact is, in most cases today, the tongues being spoken in Charismatic churches is just gibberish, not actual known human languages, and this is unbiblical. (see especially the study done by linguists in D. A. Carson's commentary on 1 Cor. chapter 12-14 entitled "Showing the Spirit") They are not actual human languages where the Lord gave someone, at least momentarily, the ability to speak in a language that they did not previously know, in order to reach unbelievers, which Paul says was the purpose for speaking in tongues, as the initial pouring out of the Spirit in Acts shows where Jews from all over the Mediterranean area came together, people of many different languages, all going to Jerusalem to celebrate Pentecost. Peter was given the ability to speak languages he did not know to reach them.
cont.
 
Upvote 0

epistemaniac

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2006
969
80
62
north central Indiana
✟1,528.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Now I realize that all this may be a little overwhelming to you, you are a young person and a young Christian. I do not mean to overwhelm you; I do not mean to confuse you. But I want you to know that it is the word of God that is your guide as to what you are to believe and how you are to therefore act, not your personal subjective feelings. I am sure you must go to a Charismatic church, or you have seen people speaking in tongues and “shaking all over” on television or something. This is simply what you thought that Christians do. I am not questioning your motives in any of this. I believe you are, just as I was, sincerely trying to serve God. But I have to wonder, if you had not seen others speaking in tongues and shaking all over, would you have done this had you gone to a different church initially? Whether you realize it or not, there is a tremendous amount of psychological pressure to do as they do.... and when you share that you have spoken in tongues, others who have had this experience welcome you to the club, so to speak. You validate their experience, when what you have done, is acted as you thought you were supposed to act. But what is most important is not our experiences, but what the bible says. And so you must study for yourself what the bible has to say about speaking in tongues. Get good commentaries to help you through the study. Look at church history; has "the church" always and everywhere spoken in tongues? After doing so, you may disagree with me, and that is fine. But don't just take others word for it, don’t take mine, and please don't assume that just because there are other people doing it who are Christians that it must therefore also be right or biblical.
“The historians and theologians of the early church unanimously maintained that tongues ceased to exist after the time of the apostles. The only exception of which we know was within the movement led by Montanus, a second century heretic who believed that divine revelation continued through him beyond the New Testament.
Apparently no other tongues-speaking was practiced in Christianity until the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, when it appeared in several Roman Catholic groups in Europe (Cevenols and Jansenists) and among the Shakers in New England. The nineteenth century Irvingites of London were marked by unbiblical claims of revelations and by "tongues-speak." For over 1800 years the gift of tongues, along with the other miracle gifts, was unknown in the life and doctrine of orthodox Christianity. Then, around the turn of the twentieth century, tongues became a major emphasis within the holiness movement, a large section of which developed into modern Pentecostalism. The charismatic movement, which began in 1960, carried the practice of tongues beyond traditional Pentecostalism into many other denominations, churches, and groups, both Catholic and Protestant, filling the void in true spiritual living with false experience.
Many charismatics defend as biblical the modern tongues-speaking as part of the latter-day signs spoken of by Joel (2:28-32) and quoted by Peter in his Pentecost sermon (Acts 2:17-21). But it is clear from a careful examination of those passages that the prophecy does not apply either to Pentecost or to modern times. From earlier in Joel 2 we see that the time referred to is the second coming of Christ (of which Pentecost was only a sample), when the Lord "will remove the northern army far from [Israel]" (v. 20), just before the millennial kingdom is established and God's chosen people turn to Him (vv. 21-27; cf. Ezek. 36:23-38). It is only "after this" (v. 28) that the miraculous signs in the heavens and on the earth will appear.
There were no blood, columns of smoke, darkening of the sun, or changing of the moon to blood associated with Pentecost. Nor have any such things happened in modern times. Peter was not saying that Pentecost completely fulfilled Joel's prophecy, because obviously it did not. He was saying that the limited miraculous signs that had occurred shortly before he began his sermon were a glimpse of much greater and far-reaching signs and wonders that would come in "the last days" (Acts 2:17). There simply is no biblical explanation here for the modern reappearance of tongues or of any of the other miracle gifts.
Some charismatics also maintain that "the early and latter rain" of Joel 2:23 refer to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in modern times, respectively. But the early rain was the literal rainfall that came in the autumn and the latter rain was that which came in the spring. Joel's point is simply that God will make crops grow profusely in the kingdom, as the following verses (24-27) make abundantly clear. (MacArthur New Testament Commentary)

blessings,
ken
 
Upvote 0

Orahh

Newbie
Apr 25, 2009
166
7
NSW, Australia
✟22,834.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Now I realize that all this may be a little overwhelming to you, you are a young person and a young Christian. I do not mean to overwhelm you; I do not mean to confuse you. But I want you to know that it is the word of God that is your guide as to what you are to believe and how you are to therefore act, not your personal subjective feelings. I am sure you must go to a Charismatic church, or you have seen people speaking in tongues and “shaking all over” on television or something. This is simply what you thought that Christians do. I am not questioning your motives in any of this. I believe you are, just as I was, sincerely trying to serve God. But I have to wonder, if you had not seen others speaking in tongues and shaking all over, would you have done this had you gone to a different church initially? Whether you realize it or not, there is a tremendous amount of psychological pressure to do as they do.... and when you share that you have spoken in tongues, others who have had this experience welcome you to the club, so to speak. You validate their experience, when what you have done, is acted as you thought you were supposed to act. But what is most important is not our experiences, but what the bible says. And so you must study for yourself what the bible has to say about speaking in tongues. Get good commentaries to help you through the study. Look at church history; has "the church" always and everywhere spoken in tongues? After doing so, you may disagree with me, and that is fine. But don't just take others word for it, don’t take mine, and please don't assume that just because there are other people doing it who are Christians that it must therefore also be right or biblical.
“The historians and theologians of the early church unanimously maintained that tongues ceased to exist after the time of the apostles. The only exception of which we know was within the movement led by Montanus, a second century heretic who believed that divine revelation continued through him beyond the New Testament.
Apparently no other tongues-speaking was practiced in Christianity until the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, when it appeared in several Roman Catholic groups in Europe (Cevenols and Jansenists) and among the Shakers in New England. The nineteenth century Irvingites of London were marked by unbiblical claims of revelations and by "tongues-speak." For over 1800 years the gift of tongues, along with the other miracle gifts, was unknown in the life and doctrine of orthodox Christianity. Then, around the turn of the twentieth century, tongues became a major emphasis within the holiness movement, a large section of which developed into modern Pentecostalism. The charismatic movement, which began in 1960, carried the practice of tongues beyond traditional Pentecostalism into many other denominations, churches, and groups, both Catholic and Protestant, filling the void in true spiritual living with false experience.
Many charismatics defend as biblical the modern tongues-speaking as part of the latter-day signs spoken of by Joel (2:28-32) and quoted by Peter in his Pentecost sermon (Acts 2:17-21). But it is clear from a careful examination of those passages that the prophecy does not apply either to Pentecost or to modern times. From earlier in Joel 2 we see that the time referred to is the second coming of Christ (of which Pentecost was only a sample), when the Lord "will remove the northern army far from [Israel]" (v. 20), just before the millennial kingdom is established and God's chosen people turn to Him (vv. 21-27; cf. Ezek. 36:23-38). It is only "after this" (v. 28) that the miraculous signs in the heavens and on the earth will appear.
There were no blood, columns of smoke, darkening of the sun, or changing of the moon to blood associated with Pentecost. Nor have any such things happened in modern times. Peter was not saying that Pentecost completely fulfilled Joel's prophecy, because obviously it did not. He was saying that the limited miraculous signs that had occurred shortly before he began his sermon were a glimpse of much greater and far-reaching signs and wonders that would come in "the last days" (Acts 2:17). There simply is no biblical explanation here for the modern reappearance of tongues or of any of the other miracle gifts.
Some charismatics also maintain that "the early and latter rain" of Joel 2:23 refer to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in modern times, respectively. But the early rain was the literal rainfall that came in the autumn and the latter rain was that which came in the spring. Joel's point is simply that God will make crops grow profusely in the kingdom, as the following verses (24-27) make abundantly clear. (MacArthur New Testament Commentary)

blessings,
ken





thank you for that. If you'd like to talk more on this subject feel free to email me. :)
 
Upvote 0

Bouke285

It's not a sin to be wrong, but be wrong humbly!
Jul 3, 2008
288
11
35
Minnesota
Visit site
✟22,993.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Now I realize that all this may be a little overwhelming to you, you are a young person and a young Christian. I do not mean to overwhelm you; I do not mean to confuse you. But I want you to know that it is the word of God that is your guide as to what you are to believe and how you are to therefore act, not your personal subjective feelings. I am sure you must go to a Charismatic church, or you have seen people speaking in tongues and “shaking all over” on television or something. This is simply what you thought that Christians do. I am not questioning your motives in any of this. I believe you are, just as I was, sincerely trying to serve God. But I have to wonder, if you had not seen others speaking in tongues and shaking all over, would you have done this had you gone to a different church initially? Whether you realize it or not, there is a tremendous amount of psychological pressure to do as they do.... and when you share that you have spoken in tongues, others who have had this experience welcome you to the club, so to speak. You validate their experience, when what you have done, is acted as you thought you were supposed to act. But what is most important is not our experiences, but what the bible says. And so you must study for yourself what the bible has to say about speaking in tongues. Get good commentaries to help you through the study. Look at church history; has "the church" always and everywhere spoken in tongues? After doing so, you may disagree with me, and that is fine. But don't just take others word for it, don’t take mine, and please don't assume that just because there are other people doing it who are Christians that it must therefore also be right or biblical.
“The historians and theologians of the early church unanimously maintained that tongues ceased to exist after the time of the apostles. The only exception of which we know was within the movement led by Montanus, a second century heretic who believed that divine revelation continued through him beyond the New Testament.
Apparently no other tongues-speaking was practiced in Christianity until the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, when it appeared in several Roman Catholic groups in Europe (Cevenols and Jansenists) and among the Shakers in New England. The nineteenth century Irvingites of London were marked by unbiblical claims of revelations and by "tongues-speak." For over 1800 years the gift of tongues, along with the other miracle gifts, was unknown in the life and doctrine of orthodox Christianity. Then, around the turn of the twentieth century, tongues became a major emphasis within the holiness movement, a large section of which developed into modern Pentecostalism. The charismatic movement, which began in 1960, carried the practice of tongues beyond traditional Pentecostalism into many other denominations, churches, and groups, both Catholic and Protestant, filling the void in true spiritual living with false experience.
Many charismatics defend as biblical the modern tongues-speaking as part of the latter-day signs spoken of by Joel (2:28-32) and quoted by Peter in his Pentecost sermon (Acts 2:17-21). But it is clear from a careful examination of those passages that the prophecy does not apply either to Pentecost or to modern times. From earlier in Joel 2 we see that the time referred to is the second coming of Christ (of which Pentecost was only a sample), when the Lord "will remove the northern army far from [Israel]" (v. 20), just before the millennial kingdom is established and God's chosen people turn to Him (vv. 21-27; cf. Ezek. 36:23-38). It is only "after this" (v. 28) that the miraculous signs in the heavens and on the earth will appear.
There were no blood, columns of smoke, darkening of the sun, or changing of the moon to blood associated with Pentecost. Nor have any such things happened in modern times. Peter was not saying that Pentecost completely fulfilled Joel's prophecy, because obviously it did not. He was saying that the limited miraculous signs that had occurred shortly before he began his sermon were a glimpse of much greater and far-reaching signs and wonders that would come in "the last days" (Acts 2:17). There simply is no biblical explanation here for the modern reappearance of tongues or of any of the other miracle gifts.
Some charismatics also maintain that "the early and latter rain" of Joel 2:23 refer to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in modern times, respectively. But the early rain was the literal rainfall that came in the autumn and the latter rain was that which came in the spring. Joel's point is simply that God will make crops grow profusely in the kingdom, as the following verses (24-27) make abundantly clear. (MacArthur New Testament Commentary)

blessings,
ken

As long as this post has been bumped up, the bible is so clear on spiritual gifts and even the purpose for them. This story goes both ways when I first moved to this town my family met a Christian family who happened to go to the same church as my aunt and her family.

The pastor of this church in the beginning of his ministry had people coming to him broken because of the misuse of their gifts. They had been abusing what was given to them for a purpose and because of this they started to break down. Now the pastor of this church saw what was happening and said this isn't of God its of the devil. From then on he flatly taught using spiritual gifts is a sin today.

Now this family I was referring to above was inviting us to bible studies every week I was pretty young at this time 12 - 13 my parents shared their beliefs about spiritual gifts and how important they are. The dad of the family secretly came up to my dad and said. "if you don't stop your belief in spiritual gifts then we can no longer fellowship with you." God does have a purpose for the gifts he gives through the holy spirit we cant be ignorant of them as said by Paul in 1 Corinthians.

1 Cor 12: 1,6-7 Now concerning the spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the spirit is given to each one for the profit of all.
 
Upvote 0
F

freeport

Guest
OP:

I honestly do not know how Christians would ever want to rule out miracles, dreams, or visions, however. Jesus lived a life of miracles and I believe that is what we are called to do until the end.

As it states in 1 John 2, 'the anointing teaches you it is real and not counterfeit' and 'you do not need teachers, because the anointing teaches you all things'.

We also know that the Holy Spirit 'brings to mind Scripture'. In a sense, one might consider Scripture the language for the Holy Spirit to speak to you through.


There should be no question about whether you are born again or not. If you have a question on this, then go to God, believing, and ask for the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of Faith, so that is why there is no question if you are born again.

And peace, love, and joy is a "feeling", but a spiritual feeling.

As for dramatic and bizarre shows at some charismatic revivals, I am not into that personally. I do believe in the spiritual gifts, but believe everything should be tasteful in a religious context.

Sometimes God does have prophets and prophetesses do some unusual things as signs and symbols, however.

For me the joy from God is more like a river in the heart, one of quietness and peacefulness then anything else.
 
Upvote 0