Baptism and Born Again

[Tavita]

I have been reading some articles by the Anglican Church online which state that [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" Baptism is a ceremony representative of spiritual cleansing, ‘renewing’ a person upon entry into the Church", yet I have been told by an Anglican that one is 'born again' when baptized in water. The statements I have found say it is 'representative'. My own experience was that I was 'born again' and baptised in the Holy Spirit two years before water baptism. Is it the general opinion of the Anglican Church that I was not born again until water baptism?
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[AngCath]

The traditional understanding is that in Baptism one is united to the death and resurrection of our Lord and that in Confirmation one has their Pentecost moment.

 

[Aymn27]

I have been reading some articles by the Anglican Church online which state that [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" Baptism is a ceremony representative of spiritual cleansing, ‘renewing’ a person upon entry into the Church", yet I have been told by an Anglican that one is 'born again' when baptized in water. The statements I have found say it is 'representative'. My own experience was that I was 'born again' and baptised in the Holy Spirit two years before water baptism. Is it the general opinion of the Anglican Church that I was not born again until water baptism?
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to be honest..I don't think any correct theology has been worked out on this...Scripture offers us three views - one of getting baptized and receiving the Holy Spirit; one of being baptized, but not having the Holy Spirit until hands are laid on them; and one of receiving the Holy Spirit then getting baptized (all in Acts).

God is not bound by human theology in any way. I would say that you were a born-again Christian when you committed your life and will to the Lord Jesus. Further than that - I think it's all a matter of opinion.

 

[Albion]

I have been reading some articles by the Anglican Church online which state that [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" Baptism is a ceremony representative of spiritual cleansing, ‘renewing’ a person upon entry into the Church", yet I have been told by an Anglican that one is 'born again' when baptized in water. The statements I have found say it is 'representative'. My own experience was that I was 'born again' and baptised in the Holy Spirit two years before water baptism. Is it the general opinion of the Anglican Church that I was not born again until water baptism?
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No, it the Church's belief that you were born again, in one sense, when you accepted Christ as your Savior, but that this was not a substitute for sacramental baptism in which we become members of the visible church and receive grace and forgiveness.

 

[Colabomb]

Read the book of acts. The various confusing tales of conversion should indicate to you that there is no set pattern.

Many Received the Holy Spirit before their baptism, some after the laying on of hands (To my AC friends, no I am not referring to Ordination), and Some I believe at their baptism.

While set patterns work for some things in our faith, Salvation, Rebirth and the Indwelling of the Holy Ghost, appears to be one of those "Let God take care of it" sort of things.

 

[karen freeinchristman]

God is not bound by human theology in any way.

This is a great statement!

 

[PaladinValer]

Man's theology?

Baptism is "Man's theology"?

 

[karen freeinchristman]

Man's theology?

Baptism is "Man's theology"?

The theology of being 'born again' and man's ideas of what that means - who is to pin down the exact moment the Holy Spirit gives rise to new life within us?

 

[Tavita]

Thank you for your replies everyone. I do agree with what most people have said.

I really wanted to know what the 'official' stance of the Anglican Church is on it.

The Anglican Church is to uphold, 'Scripture,Tradition, and Reason', which is most confusing in a way. I mean, what happens if by 'Reason' we believe something the 'Scriptures' say or show forth, but it goes against 'Tradition'?

 

[Colabomb]

Thank you for your replies everyone. I do agree with what most people have said.

I really wanted to know what the 'official' stance of the Anglican Church is on it.

The Anglican Church is to uphold, 'Scripture,Tradition, and Reason', which is most confusing in a way. I mean, what happens if by 'Reason' we believe something the 'Scriptures' say or show forth, but it goes against 'Tradition'?

Contrary to what the Anglo Catholics will tell you, The stool is wobbly.

Scripture, over tradition, over reason.

 

[PaladinValer]

No; they are equal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff631GZMRNU <---entertaining video that illustrates what the motto means.

 

[PaladinValer]

The theology of being 'born again' and man's ideas of what that means - who is to pin down the exact moment the Holy Spirit gives rise to new life within us?

Baptism.

What initiates us into the Church? Holy Baptism.

What makes us a whole, worthy temple to where the Holy Spirit can dwell in/with us? Holy Baptism.

What initiates us into Christ, sealing us into Him for ever? Holy Baptism.

What regenerates us, healing our souls and purifying our nature? Holy Baptism.

Baptismal theology is all about newness of life.

 

[Colabomb]

No; they are equal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff631GZMRNU <---entertaining video that illustrates what the motto means.

No offense intended, but Paladin, you are an angloCatholic.... you are of course gonna say that.

 

[PaladinValer]

So you reject STR?

 

[Colabomb]

So you reject STR?

Not in the least. I just know that Scripture is of higher authority than The traditions and reason of mankind.

 

[Tavita]

Baptism.

What initiates us into the Church? Holy Baptism.

What makes us a whole, worthy temple to where the Holy Spirit can dwell in/with us? Holy Baptism.

What initiates us into Christ, sealing us into Him for ever? Holy Baptism.

What regenerates us, healing our souls and purifying our nature? Holy Baptism.

Baptismal theology is all about newness of life.

Which Baptism are you speaking of?

There are two types of baptism: water, and Holy Spirit with fire.

 

[Secundulus]

Contrary to what the Anglo Catholics will tell you, The stool is wobbly.

Scripture, over tradition, over reason.

Scripture first . . . What does Jesus say?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach&#65279;&#65279; all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftn1
http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftnref1The Holy Bible : King James Version., Mt 28:19.

and

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftn1http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftnref1The Holy Bible : King James Version., Mk 16:16.

Signed,
The unrepentant Anglo-Papist

 

[Colabomb]

Scripture first . . . What does Jesus say?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach&#65279;&#65279; all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
The Holy Bible : King James Version., Mt 28:19.

and

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. The Holy Bible : King James Version., Mk 16:16.

Signed,
The unrepentant Anglo-Papist

Hehe, don't get me wrong. I believe baptism is commanded and necessary. I was simply arguing that often God works outside of our ORDER of things.

Its not a step by step process. We can't turn salvation into a formula.

I would never say someone shouldn't be Baptized. I am a sacramental Christian of course!

I was arguing with paladin about the stool not the font.

 

[No Swansong]

Thank you for your replies everyone. I do agree with what most people have said.

I really wanted to know what the 'official' stance of the Anglican Church is on it.

The Anglican Church is to uphold, 'Scripture,Tradition, and Reason', which is most confusing in a way. I mean, what happens if by 'Reason' we believe something the 'Scriptures' say or show forth, but it goes against 'Tradition'?

Unfortunately my friend you have wandered into Deep Waters. There are some here that believe their stance is the only possible one, others have no stance at all. Unfortunately you have asked for the "Official Stance" of the Anglican Church. Pretty much the Anglican Church has no official stance on really anything.

A note for PV it is not Baptismal Theology that is man-made it is your understanding and communication of it that is. (as would be mine, or GT's, or Karen's, or Cola's etc.) There have been very imminent and knowledgeable Theologians who have disagreed entirely with some if not all of your statements. Just as I am sure there would be who disagree on my understanding of Baptism.

 

[No Swansong]

Scripture first . . . What does Jesus say?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach&#65279;&#65279; all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftn1
http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftnref1The Holy Bible : King James Version., Mt 28:19.

and

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftn1http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=40881758#_ftnref1The Holy Bible : King James Version., Mk 16:16.

Signed,
The unrepentant Anglo-Papist

Seems you left out Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized. Never met an infant who could repent yet.