Ban Creationism and Intelligent Design in the science classroom as federal law.

Loudmouth · Jul 9, 2013

TheBeardedDude said:
I have to admit to being a bit conflicted on the issue of whether or not to discuss creationism/intelligent design in science classrooms.

If ID/creationism were given the treatment it deserves within the science classroom I don't think the fundamentalist christians would like it. Overall, I think it is best for public schools to just leave it alone. It is in the best interest of public schools to not give religious beliefs a thumping in science class.

Creationism/intelligent design isn't science but was a philosophical position that predated Darwin's theory of natural selection.

I think it would be fine to describe the historical framework that Darwin was working under. Simply saying that most people thought that species were immutable would probably be enough. There would be no need to go into the religious basis for that position.

In teaching evolution at the college level to students, starting off with what Darwin knew and believed at the time of his voyage is key to understanding just how significant his findings were if they caused not only him to shift his beliefs, but a complete paradigm shift globally too.

In the end, if someone wants to teach creationism/intelligent design as some theistically philosophical/religious alternative to evolution, it should be done in a religious studies classroom or a philosophies classroom and include the creation stories and proposed intelligent designers of other religions too.

I agree.

TheBeardedDude · Jul 9, 2013

I was not quite explicit enough in my description of how to discuss these topics in the science classroom. Indeed, religious discussion is not appropriate for the science classroom and should be avoided (even the theist who wants it taught would not want me discussing religion in high school biology with their little angels). But discussing what these philosophies said and how the scientific theories addressed them is important.

Loudmouth said:
If ID/creationism were given the treatment it deserves within the science classroom I don't think the fundamentalist christians would like it. Overall, I think it is best for public schools to just leave it alone. It is in the best interest of public schools to not give religious beliefs a thumping in science class.

I think it would be fine to describe the historical framework that Darwin was working under. Simply saying that most people thought that species were immutable would probably be enough. There would be no need to go into the religious basis for that position.

I agree.

Aman777 · Jul 9, 2013

TheBeardedDude said:
I was not quite explicit enough in my description of how to discuss these topics in the science classroom. Indeed, religious discussion is not appropriate for the science classroom and should be avoided (even the theist who wants it taught would not want me discussing religion in high school biology with their little angels). But discussing what these philosophies said and how the scientific theories addressed them is important.

Dear TheBeardedDude, I totally agree, which is WHY the Lies of Evolution should NOT be taught. Evols religionists force their false beliefs onto our children in order to promote their Godless views which ignore God's Truth. When will this False Religion be challenged and shown for the Lie it most certainly is?

In Love,
Aman

TheBeardedDude · Jul 9, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear TheBeardedDude, I totally agree, which is WHY the Lies of Evolution should NOT be taught. Evols religionists force their false beliefs onto our children in order to promote their Godless views which ignore God's Truth. When will this False Religion be challenged and shown for the Lie it most certainly is?

In Love,
Aman

Evolution is not a religion. Problem solved (except, that never was a problem except for people who have no idea how to use a dictionary)

EnemyOfReason · Jul 9, 2013

Split Rock said:
The problem here is your use of terminology. In science a "fact" is usually the same as "data." As in, "every time I let go of a pen it falls to the ground." Therefore, facts come before an hypothesis. No hypothesis comes out of thin air, afterall. Then more "facts" are collected to test the hypothesis. You are using "fact" in the more colloquial sense, as "something proven beyond a reasonable doubt." That is what people mean when they say "evolution is a fact." If I am wrong about what you are saying, please correct me.

I was using fact incorrectly and outside of scientific terminology . I did not realize this until later . It happens

Split Rock · Jul 9, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
I was using fact incorrectly and outside of scientific terminology . I did not realize this until later . It happens

Its all good, my friend!

AV1611VET · Jul 9, 2013

Split Rock said:
Its all good, my friend!

This is why I like atheists & agnostics backing me up.

Much like you would like me backing you up if you were trying to make a point with dispensation theology to a Christian who was claiming you made that up, I like it when the goats support the sheep against other goats.

No offense.

And for the record, I wish there were no goats period.

Loudmouth · Jul 9, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear TheBeardedDude, I totally agree, which is WHY the Lies of Evolution should NOT be taught. Evols religionists force their false beliefs onto our children in order to promote their Godless views which ignore God's Truth. When will this False Religion be challenged and shown for the Lie it most certainly is?

In Love,
Aman

And yet you can never present evidence demonstrating a single lie. You are blowing hot air.

Flatland · Jul 9, 2013

Jollybear123 said:
Im not sighning that, i think it should be taught in school ALONG side the evolutionary theory, then let the kids decide which one to believe. That is true education, the other is indoctrination. And intilligent design is not religion because it deals with ONLY the design of nature, it does not deal with the designer or who he/she/what is. So science is still taught in intelligent design.

Perhaps we should also teach Alchemy along side Chemistry and let the kids decide which one to believe.

Split Rock · Jul 9, 2013

AV1611VET said:
This is why I like atheists & agnostics backing me up.

Much like you would like me backing you up if you were trying to make a point with dispensation theology to a Christian who was claiming you made that up, I like it when the goats support the sheep against other goats.

No offense.

And for the record, I wish there were no goats period.

Are you a sheep then? Baaaaaaaahhhhh!!

AV1611VET · Jul 9, 2013

Split Rock said:
Are you a sheep then?

Yes.

BarryDesborough · Jul 9, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Yes.

I have a few sheep.

They are pretty dumb.

TheBeardedDude · Jul 9, 2013

BarryDesborough said:
I have a few sheep.

They are pretty dumb.

But sheep are useful

AV1611VET · Jul 9, 2013

BarryDesborough said:
I have a few sheep.

They are pretty dumb.

Can sheep hear?

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Perhaps they're dumb because they prioritize?

BarryDesborough · Jul 9, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Can sheep hear?

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Perhaps they're dumb because they prioritize?

Doesn't help them when it comes to the slaughter.

Justatruthseeker · Jul 9, 2013

And just how pray tell do you propose to ban something you have already banned from the schools? And did so using faked data?

Piltdown Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fossil was introduced as evidence by Clarence Darrow in defense of John Scopes during the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial. Darrow died during 1938, fifteen years before Piltdown Man was exposed as a fraud.

That's how you got it taken out of school to begin with, you faked evidence for a trial. I declare a mistrial. I say we need a whole new trial, some creationist lawyer out there needs to file an appeal based on fraud!

USincognito · Jul 10, 2013

Jollybear123 said:
Wow.....your comparing apples to oranges. Their is no comparison with all of this to intelligent design. Why can't you see that? The evolutionary model in essence says the universe got her by chance. Chance did it, while the creation model says God did it. Let the kids decide.

"The evolutionary model" exists only in the minds of Creationists.

The scientific method does not address the supernatural and cannot* address it.

* Sort of - the Catholic church applies it when investigating miracles and when they run out of mundane explanations, they're certified.

USincognito · Jul 10, 2013

jpcedotal said:
Separation of Church and State came about to keep the State from hindering the Church...not to keep Religion out of the State.

Do a little research....

Some of us have. You're wrong.

Bungle_Bear · Jul 10, 2013

Aman777 said:
When will this False Religion be challenged and shown for the Lie it most certainly is?

That's a great question. Creationists keep threatening to do it, keep saying evolution is a known lie - but bizarrely never provide anything to backup the claim. If it is so obvious why can you not provide the evidence? Or show how ToE is a misinterpretation of the evidence that is claimed to support it?

A Nobel prize and a place in the history books await. And if you're too humble to want the limelight then I'm sure you could just leak the killer evidence anonymously and let somebody else take the credit.

USincognito · Jul 10, 2013

XB3LI3V3RX said:
*sigh* I've explained this to so many people it's just annoying now. That is part of a song from my favorite band. How about you go listen to it, then you would understand. (If your not going to listen to it, then I'll say it's basically saying people who are Christians are just trying to help people, but others are always acting like we are bad people. That's where "learn to follow the wolves" comes from, because if people would actually stop being close-minded they would know true Christians aren't bad.)

~<Learn to Follow the Wolves>~

Awesome. Now can you go to your User CP, edit signature and place it there rather than typing it every time you post? Some of us have sigs turned off and when we reply to someone who has a typed sig, sometimes it's missed and messes up the quote tags.

Ban Creationism and Intelligent Design in the science classroom as federal law.

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